Global warming strikes again folks!!

[multivita-man]

Yeah, the political side of this controversy has no rules --it's all CLIMATE CHANGE!!!

Now, there very well may be a scientific side to this mess but so far I haven't seen it.

Warmer temps in the poles (Arctic) are pushing the polar jet stream southward. This explains the snow across the ME and it also explains our brutally cold temps around Christmas. Extremely cold air that normally stays up in Canada/Siberia slides south.

 

[multivita-man]

/——/ So teach us science illiterates what is the ideal climate.

Impossible.

What is your climate goal? Is it the same worldwide or does science have targets for each hemisphere? And once you achieve climatic nirvana, how do you stop the climatic adjustments? In other words, how do you prevent going too far in the opposite direction? Do we start burning fossil fuels and shut down some windmills? How do science literates explain it?
TIA.

Nature will take care of this problem in due time. Sooner rather than later. It's called collapse.

 

[expat_panama]

Warmer temps in the poles (Arctic) are pushing the polar jet stream southward. This explains the snow across the ME and it also explains our brutally cold temps around Christmas. Extremely cold air that normally stays up in Canada/Siberia slides south.

That's an interesting hypothesis, and if we want to conform to a scientific method we'd next want to find temperature readings along w/ experiments where we see similar temperature rises that we can correlate w/ convection that extends thousands of miles.

That would raise the level of our conjecture from "hypothesis" to "theory".

 

[Cellblock2429]

Impossible.



Nature will take care of this problem in due time. Sooner rather than later. It's called collapse.

/——-/ So, you clowns got nothing. Bwhahahaha Bwhahahaha

 

[multivita-man]

/——-/ So, you clowns got nothing. Bwhahahaha Bwhahahaha

Collapse will see to it that most of us 'got nothin'.

 

[ding]

Impossible.



Nature will take care of this problem in due time. Sooner rather than later. It's called collapse.

There's a better chance of a glacial period happening than there is a greenhouse planet. The planet is uniquely configured for colder temperatures.

 

[James California]

Of course all Climate science institutes agree on the evidence. That goes without saying. Do you even know what they agree on ? Probably not. You can’t be science illiterate and know how to disagree. Like really, do you know how a cell phone operates well enough to disagree with it‘s management ?

~ Yes. So does anyone else who is paying attention.
They agree on whatever they are paid to agree on. Real scientists not on government payrolls have another opinion.

 

[multivita-man]

There's a better chance of a glacial period happening than there is a greenhouse planet. The planet is uniquely configured for colder temperatures.

Not sure about a glacial period, but...if the oceanic jets collapse, we could definitely have a temporary period (decade or so) or really cold weather in the northern latitudes. It would seem like global warming's a hoax initially, but the heat trapping effects of greenhouse gases would continue and if industrial activity were to shut down, the aerosols wouldn't be there to mitigate radiation. Over time, we're looking at massive heat - 3 to 5C by the end of this century. That's a mass extinction event in the making.

 

[Crick]

Not sure about a glacial period, but...if the oceanic jets collapse, we could definitely have a temporary period (decade or so) or really cold weather in the northern latitudes. It would seem like global warming's a hoax initially, but the heat trapping effects of greenhouse gases would continue and if industrial activity were to shut down, the aerosols wouldn't be there to mitigate radiation. Over time, we're looking at massive heat - 3 to 5C by the end of this century. That's a mass extinction event in the making.

By "oceanic jets", I assume you mean the Gulf Stream, the Kurushio and so forth. Those are driven by the coriolis force - the rotation of the Earth - and will not shut down from global warming. What IS at risk of shutting down from warming is the AMOC, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current - the current driven by cold water sinking in the North Atlantic, flowing south along the bottom and welling back to the surface at the equator when it meets its southern mirror current coming north from Antaractica. The risk to it comes from massive amounts of fresh melt water as it is a density-driven current. Stopping it will royally fuck things due to the cessation of heat transport and the loss of nutrients it provides equatorial pelagic species including the phyto- and zooplankton on which just about everything depends.

 

[ding]

Not sure about a glacial period, but...if the oceanic jets collapse, we could definitely have a temporary period (decade or so) or really cold weather in the northern latitudes. It would seem like global warming's a hoax initially, but the heat trapping effects of greenhouse gases would continue and if industrial activity were to shut down, the aerosols wouldn't be there to mitigate radiation. Over time, we're looking at massive heat - 3 to 5C by the end of this century. That's a mass extinction event in the making.

If the gulf stream shuts down, you will see temperature plunge in the northern hemisphere. Albedo will provide additional net negative feedback.

Their models are flawed for a number of reasons the biggest being the net positive feedback of water vapor. Did you know their models produce a feedback that is 3 times greater than the GHG effect of CO2?

 

[multivita-man]

By "oceanic jets", I assume you mean the Gulf Stream, the Kurushio and so forth. Those are driven by the coriolis force - the rotation of the Earth - and will not shut down from global warming. What IS at risk of shutting down from warming is the AMOC, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current - the current driven by cold water sinking in the North Atlantic, flowing south along the bottom and welling back to the surface at the equator when it meets its southern mirror current coming north from Antaractica. The risk to it comes from massive amounts of fresh melt water as it is a density-driven current. Stopping it will royally fuck things due to the cessation of heat transport and the loss of nutrients it provides equatorial pelagic species including the phyto- and zooplankton on which just about everything depends.

Yes, thank you. Nice post.

 

[ding]

By "oceanic jets", I assume you mean the Gulf Stream, the Kurushio and so forth. Those are driven by the coriolis force - the rotation of the Earth - and will not shut down from global warming. What IS at risk of shutting down from warming is the AMOC, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current - the current driven by cold water sinking in the North Atlantic, flowing south along the bottom and welling back to the surface at the equator when it meets its southern mirror current coming north from Antaractica. The risk to it comes from massive amounts of fresh melt water as it is a density-driven current. Stopping it will royally fuck things due to the cessation of heat transport and the loss of nutrients it provides equatorial pelagic species including the phyto- and zooplankton on which just about everything depends.

Gulf Stream Collapse Will Likely Not Cause Climate Catastrophe

The idea that the abrupt collapse of the Gulf Stream and associated oceanic currents in the Atlantic Ocean leads to a catastrophic shift in the climate doesn't fit geological data, a new study says.

www.forbes.com

"...However, building upon previous work, He says researchers are revising their understanding of the relationship between AMOC and freshwater from melting polar ice.

In the past, a stalled AMOC has accompanied abrupt climate events like the Bølling-Allerød warming, a 14,500-year-old, sharp global temperature hike. He successfully reproduced that event using a climate model he conducted in 2009 while a UW–Madison graduate student.

"That was a success, reproducing the abrupt warming about 14,700 years ago that is seen in the paleoclimate record," says He, now. "But our accuracy didn't continue past that abrupt change period."

Instead, while Earth's temperatures cooled after this abrupt warming before rising again to plateau at new highs for the last 10,000 years, the 2009 model couldn't keep pace. The simulated warming over the northern regions of the planet didn't match the increase in temperatures seen in geological archives of climate, like ice cores.

In a study published this week in the journal Nature Climate Change, He and Oregon State University paleoclimatologist Peter Clark describe a new model simulation that matches the warmth of the last 10,000 years. And they did it by doing away with the trigger most scientists believe stalls or shuts down the AMOC.

Warming temperatures on Earth's surface cause sea ice in the Arctic Ocean and the Greenland Ice Sheet to melt, releasing fresh water into the ocean. Scientists widely believed that the freshwater influx disrupts the density differences in the North Atlantic that make the AMOC's north-bound water sink and turn back south.

"The problem," says He, "is with the geological climate data."

Though the climate record shows an abundance of freshwater that came from the final melting of the ice sheets over North America and Europe, the AMOC barely changed. So, He removed the assumption of a freshwater deluge from his model.

"Without the freshwater coming in making the AMOC slow down in the model, we get a simulation with much better, lasting agreement with the temperature data from the climate record," He says. "The important result is that the AMOC appears to be less sensitive to freshwater forcing than has long been thought, according to both the data and model."

This is particularly important to climate models that evaluate how the AMOC will respond to future increases of freshwater from ice melt.

"It's built into many models," He says. "Future global warming from increasing carbon dioxide in the atmosphere melts sea ice, and the freshwater from the melting ice is believed to cause the AMOC to weaken."

The widespread consequences of a drastic weakening of the AMOC include rapid sea-level rise on the eastern coast of North America, cooling over Europe that could disrupt agriculture, a parched Amazon rainforest and disruption of Asian monsoons. The new modeling study anticipates a much smaller reduction in AMOC strength, but that doesn't rule out abrupt change.

"We suggest until this challenge is solved, any simulated AMOC changes from freshwater forcing should be viewed with caution," He says. "We can't be certain why the AMOC shut down in the past. but we are certain it did change. And it can change again."

 

[ding]

By "oceanic jets", I assume you mean the Gulf Stream, the Kurushio and so forth. Those are driven by the coriolis force - the rotation of the Earth - and will not shut down from global warming. What IS at risk of shutting down from warming is the AMOC, the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current - the current driven by cold water sinking in the North Atlantic, flowing south along the bottom and welling back to the surface at the equator when it meets its southern mirror current coming north from Antaractica. The risk to it comes from massive amounts of fresh melt water as it is a density-driven current. Stopping it will royally fuck things due to the cessation of heat transport and the loss of nutrients it provides equatorial pelagic species including the phyto- and zooplankton on which just about everything depends.

What Is the Gulf Stream? | NOAA SciJinks – All About Weather

Learn more about this strong ocean current!

scijinks.gov

What causes the Gulf Stream?​

The Gulf Stream is caused by a large system of circular currents and powerful winds, called an oceanic gyre. There are five oceanic gyres on Earth. The Gulf Stream is part of the North Atlantic Subtropical Gyre.
==============================================================

Ocean Gyre

A gyre is a circular ocean current formed by Earth's wind patterns and the forces created by the rotation of the planet

education.nationalgeographic.org

An ocean gyre is a large system of circular ocean currents formed by global wind patterns and forces created by Earth’s rotation.

The movement of the world’s major ocean gyres helps drive the “ocean conveyor belt.” The ocean conveyor belt circulates ocean water around the entire planet. Also known as thermohaline circulation, the ocean conveyor belt is essential for regulating temperature, salinity and nutrient flow throughout the ocean.

How a Gyre Forms

Three forces cause the circulation of a gyre: global wind patterns, Earth’s rotation, and Earth’s landmasses. Wind drags on the ocean surface, causing water to move in the direction the wind is blowing.

Earth’s rotation deflects, or changes the direction of, these wind-driven currents. This deflection is a part of the Coriolis effect. The Coriolis effect shifts surface currents by angles of about 45 degrees. In the Northern Hemisphere, ocean currents are deflected to the right, in a clockwise motion. In the Southern Hemisphere, ocean currents are pushed to the left, in a counterclockwise motion.

Beneath surface currents of the gyre, the Coriolis effect results in what is called an Ekman spiral. While surface currents are deflected by about 45 degrees, each deeper layer in the water column is deflected slightly less. This results in a spiral pattern descending about 100 meters (330 feet).

Earth’s continents and other landmasses (such as islands) also influence the creation of ocean gyres. The massive South Pacific Gyre, for instance, includes hundreds of kilometers of open ocean. It is bounded only by the continents of Australia and South America, as well as the Equator and powerful Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC).

In contrast, the northern Indian Ocean Gyre is a much smaller ocean gyre. Unlike the South Pacific Gyre, its extent is determined largely by landmasses. The Equator forms its southern boundary, but it is bounded elsewhere by the Horn of Africa, Sri Lanka and the Indian subcontinent, and the Indonesian archipelago.

Types of Gyres

There are three major types of ocean gyres: tropical, subtropical, and subpolar.

Subpolar gyres form in the polar regions of the planet. They sit beneath an area of low atmospheric pressure. Wind drives the currents in subpolar gyres away from coastal areas. These surface currents are replaced by cold, nutrient-rich water in a process called upwelling. The Northern Hemisphere has several subpolar gyres, bounded by islands such as Iceland, Greenland, and the Aleutians; and the northern reaches of Scandinavia, Asia, and North America.

Tropical gyres form near the Equator. The Coriolis effect is not present at the Equator, and winds are the primary creators of currents. For this reason, tropical gyres tend to flow in a more east-west (instead of circular) pattern. The Indian Ocean Gyre is actually two distinct tropical gyres—the northern and southern Indian Ocean Gyres.

Most of the world’s major gyres are subtropical gyres. These form between the polar and equatorial regions of Earth. Subtropical gyres circle areas beneath regions of high atmospheric pressure. These are placid ocean areas thousands of kilometers in diameter. Unlike coastal zones, these central regions are relatively stable. The ocean water generally stays in one place while the currents of the gyre circulate around it.

Movement of Gyres

Gyres are comprised of ocean currents that link up as they follow the coastlines of Earth’s continents. Each gyre has a powerful western boundary current and a weaker eastern boundary current.

The North Atlantic Gyre begins with the northward flow of the Gulf Stream along the East Coast of the United States. The Gulf Stream is the western boundary current of the gyre. The gyre then becomes the North Atlantic Current, which flows across the North Atlantic to Europe. Still flowing in a circular pattern, the current flows south as far as the northwestern coast of Africa, where it is known as the Canary Current—the gyre’s eastern boundary current. The gyre is completed as the North Atlantic Equatorial Current crosses the Atlantic Ocean to the Caribbean Sea. This entire circle and the water within it is the North Atlantic Gyre.

Most ocean gyres are very stable and predictable. The North Atlantic Ocean Gyre always flows in a steady, clockwise path around the North Atlantic Ocean. Some gyres experience seasonal variation, however.

The Indian Ocean Gyre is a complex system of many currents extending from the eastern coast of Africa to the western coast of Australia. The northern part of the system circulates between the Horn of Africa and the Indonesian archipelago. It is sometimes called the Indian monsoon current.

The Indian monsoon current takes its name from the wind—the monsoon—that drives it. It is one of the very few currents in an ocean gyre that change direction. In the summer, the current flows clockwise, as the monsoon blows in from the southwestern Indian Ocean. In the winter, the current flows counterclockwise, as the wind blows in from the Tibetan plateau in the northeast.

The temperature in an ocean gyre depends on many factors, including the current. The Gulf Stream and summer monsoon current are warm currents. They are heated by the warm tropical waters of the Caribbean Sea (Gulf Stream) and equatorial Indian Ocean (summer monsoon current). The North Atlantic Current and winter monsoon current are cool currents. They are cooled by Arctic winds and ocean currents (North Atlantic) and the winter monsoon blowing from the icy Himalayas (winter monsoon current).

 

[Dagosa]

~ Yes. So does anyone else who is paying attention.
They agree on whatever they are paid to agree on. Real scientists not on government payrolls have another opinion.

Such a foolish thing to say. So, who is paying them ? Like Gansu open university in China ? Democrats ? Who’s government ? So Russia and NASA are in collusion ?
Give me one major related institution that doesn’t agree with AGW…just one. Only one. Deniers have the stupidest stance of all nitwit MAGA suckers.

 

[Dagosa]

So teach us science illiterates what is the ideal climate. What is your climate goal?

You’re too stupid to understand. Just asking me instead of doing research yourself at thousands if available sources means you’re foolish. Why would you ask me when the answer to everyone of your questions is available at every climate science web site. All your dufus little lists have no institutional support, no websites with Q and A support..

 

[BackAgain]

Yeah, the political side of this controversy has no rules --it's all CLIMATE CHANGE!!!

Now, there very well may be a scientific side to this mess but so far I haven't seen it.

Neither have actual honest scientists.

 

[BackAgain]

There's a better chance of a glacial period happening than there is a greenhouse planet. The planet is uniquely configured for colder temperatures.

Can you expand upon that?

 

[ding]

Can you expand upon that?

Sure. I'm assuming you are asking about the planet being uniquely configured for colder temperatures and not that there's a better chance of a glacial period happening than there is for the planet transitioning back to a greenhouse planet. Let me know if I assumed wrong and I'll address that too.

The polar regions receive the least amount of sunlight and are the regions of the planet that are most prone to extensive continental glaciation and where extensive continental glaciation will occur first. But there are certain conditions that must be met in order for extensive continental glaciation to occur.

1. Thermal isolation from warmer marine currents.
2. Temperature must be at the threshold for extensive continental glaciation to occur.

Plate tectonics resulted in the polar regions being thermally isolated from warm marine currents. The southern pole has a continent parked on top of it and the northern pole is mostly land locked.

The threshold for extensive continental glaciation is a function of how thermal isolation of the polar regions is achieved. The southern pole has a continent parked over it which lowers the threshold (higher temperature requirement) for extensive continental glaciation. The northern pole has an ocean parked over it which raises the threshold (lower temperature requirement) for extensive continental glaciation. So as the planet cooled extensive continental glaciation occurred first at the southern pole and then later at the northern pole. Think of it this way... it's "easier" for ice to form over land than it is for ice to form over water and that's why the southern pole has a lower threshold (higher temperatures) than the northern pole. And it's for this reason that once glaciation begins in the northern hemisphere it will extend farther than it does in the southern hemisphere. The ocean surrounding the Antarctica continent moderates (i.e. limits) the spread of glaciers because ice doesn't form as readily over water than it does over land. Whereas in the northern hemisphere once glaciation begins, glaciation will spread much further than it will in the southern hemisphere because there is more surrounding land for glaciers to spread. Which is why what happens in the northern hemisphere dominates the climate of the planet and leads to more climate fluctuations. Which can easily be seen in the ice core data from each polar region during the last glacial period.

Lastly, the planet has never experienced bipolar glaciation before. That has only happened in the last 3 million years. So the planet is uniquely configured for colder temperatures. Never before in the history of the planet has the northern pole been isolated from warm marine currents and the earth experienced bipolar glaciation. Which is why the planet is uniquely configured for colder temperatures. And why once the planet cooled enough to reach the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation the temperatures plunged and the planet transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet (i.e. an ice age) and climate fluctuations and environmental uncertainty increased.

 

[expat_panama]

Yeah, the political side of this controversy has no rules --it's all CLIMATE CHANGE!!!

Now, there very well may be a scientific side to this mess but so far I haven't seen it.

Neither have actual honest scientists.

That's my suspicion too but I'm willing to differentiate between what I suspect and what I know for sure. What I know for sure is that a scientific side has not yet been presented --here at least. You and I can suspect it does not exist.

 

[skookerasbil]

Catch AP report yesterday?

I'm still laughing.

Coldest winter in California since...ready for this....1979.