Gay Marriage - Question.....

[Bonzi]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

I might have been baptized, but I am not Christian.

Even if I were to accept, even for a moment that there was a god. To worship a god would be giving into collectivism, abandoning individualism, giving up my freedom of thought and behavior, as well as condoning a god's actions and intentions (even if I am opposed to them) - simply on the basis of a reward after death; or a punishment if I refuse to comply.

If and when death comes, I don't expect anything, especially not a reward or punishment.

The Bible calls homosexual sex and relationships an 'abomination', but there is no evidence it views homosexuality as worse than adulatory, or that love thy neighbor and so forth are trumped by someone participating in an 'abomination', and the same applies for someone with another faith or ideology.

It isn't irrelevant to me when religious people insist on taking a text literally, unless their religious text states something entirely different, and their certain interpretation could lead to discrimination or even bloodshed - as in the case of massacres and then a genocide of Jews.

It's about God, not about US (humans)
Unless you but into that, you should not be a Christian.

 

[Bonzi]

Don't listen to scare tactics about hell and damnation.

Either you want to be selfish and worry about you and other humans, or your creator, God, how owes us NOTHING - simple choice.

 

[hipeter924]

.

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

I might have been baptized, but I am not Christian.

Even if I were to accept, even for a moment that there was a god. To worship a god would be giving into collectivism, abandoning individualism, giving up my freedom of thought and behavior, as well as condoning a god's actions and intentions (even if I am opposed to them) - simply on the basis of a reward after death; or a punishment if I refuse to comply.

Based upon what?

God gave you your individualism... your freedom of thought and expression and the principles to guide you through life, as you would lead your life.

How does that in any way deprive, usurp, undermine, or infringe upon you... or your individualism?

Religion, especially Christian religion is deterministic.

'Free Will' isn't free will, when a god has pre-determined your existence, created a social environment through his/her design - and motivated existence as a test to see whether or not that god ultimately deems you worthy to serve him/her for a reward.

Though on earth the major issue is what you are being asked to believe in or advocate.

As just like any other earthly institution, religious groups and organizations are just as likely to cause harm as do good in the world; as evidenced by how one minute you have inquisitions/religious wars, then the next charity and empathy/compassion.

Up to you what you want to believe in though.

 

[hipeter924]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

I might have been baptized, but I am not Christian.

Even if I were to accept, even for a moment that there was a god. To worship a god would be giving into collectivism, abandoning individualism, giving up my freedom of thought and behavior, as well as condoning a god's actions and intentions (even if I am opposed to them) - simply on the basis of a reward after death; or a punishment if I refuse to comply.

If and when death comes, I don't expect anything, especially not a reward or punishment.

The Bible calls homosexual sex and relationships an 'abomination', but there is no evidence it views homosexuality as worse than adulatory, or that love thy neighbor and so forth are trumped by someone participating in an 'abomination', and the same applies for someone with another faith or ideology.

It isn't irrelevant to me when religious people insist on taking a text literally, unless their religious text states something entirely different, and their certain interpretation could lead to discrimination or even bloodshed - as in the case of massacres and then a genocide of Jews.

It's about God, not about US (humans)
Unless you but into that, you should not be a Christian.

It is unfortunately about 'his/her' followers for everyone else; as with other religious/ideological/political groups.

I don't have an opinion of a god or of gods, as an inherently negative or positive force - any more than I have of other intelligent life.

As far as I am concerned, people can believe whatever they want to believe, so long as they don't come at me with pitchforks when I say something that 'offends them'.

 

[Bonzi]

Religion, especially Christian religion is deterministic.

'Free Will' isn't free will, when a god has pre-determined your existence, created a social environment through his/her design - and motivated existence as a test to see whether or not that god ultimately deems you worthy to serve him/her for a reward.

Though on earth the major issue is what you are being asked to believe in or advocate, as just like any other earthly institution, religious groups and organizations are just as likely to cause harm as to do good in the world; as evidenced by how one minute you have inquisitions/religious wars, then the next charity and empathy.

Up to you what you want to believe in though.

People that do not follow God or obey his laws (but twist them) cause confusion and cause people to view God as you do. It's unfortunately.

We do have free will. Live for yourself or live for God.

Wars were waged and people killed because God commanded it. It was perfect and good.
Just because you don't believe so doesn't change the fact that God is perfect and good, his ways are good and what you "think" is irrelevant.

 

[Bonzi]

... if you are not a Christian, or don't believe the Bible, why is it important to you to try to make it sound like God and/or the Bible is /does not condemn homosexuality?

If you don't believe, it should be irrelevant to you.

I might have been baptized, but I am not Christian.

Even if I were to accept, even for a moment that there was a god. To worship a god would be giving into collectivism, abandoning individualism, giving up my freedom of thought and behavior, as well as condoning a god's actions and intentions (even if I am opposed to them) - simply on the basis of a reward after death; or a punishment if I refuse to comply.

If and when death comes, I don't expect anything, especially not a reward or punishment.

The Bible calls homosexual sex and relationships an 'abomination', but there is no evidence it views homosexuality as worse than adulatory, or that love thy neighbor and so forth are trumped by someone participating in an 'abomination', and the same applies for someone with another faith or ideology.

It isn't irrelevant to me when religious people insist on taking a text literally, unless their religious text states something entirely different, and their certain interpretation could lead to discrimination or even bloodshed - as in the case of massacres and then a genocide of Jews.

It's about God, not about US (humans)
Unless you but into that, you should not be a Christian.

It is unfortunately about 'his/her' followers for everyone else; as with other religious/ideological/political groups.

I don't have an opinion of a god or of gods, as an inherently negative or positive force - any more than I have of other intelligent life.

As far as I am concerned, people can believe whatever they want to believe, so long as they don't come at me with pitchforks when I say something that 'offends them'.

People are going to get offended all the time. It's time the world realized this instead of forcing WHATEVER agenda they have on others..........

 

[hipeter924]

If and when death comes, I don't expect anything, especially not a reward or punishment.

You're in for one helluva surprise... except it will not BE a surprise.

At your final judgment, you will know that THAT YOU KNEW... and you rejected the truth, as a means for you to live a lie. There will only be shame, regret and eternal, unconsolable regret.

That 'reject' word again, you have to know something or someone to reject it.

I don't know, or have any kind of relationship with your deity, even if a god exists.

You can't reject someone, when they have never appeared to you, or motivated your existence, and you have never even met them. It would be like saying someone rejects 'Bob', with no perception of what 'Bob' is, having never met 'Bob', and having as their only terms of reference stories about 'Bob' and other people's perceptions of 'Bob'.

Though it is kind of a catch-22, as to be able to 'reject' or 'approve' of a god, I would have to die first.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

If and when death comes, I don't expect anything, especially not a reward or punishment.

You're in for one helluva surprise... except it will not BE a surprise.

At your final judgment, you will know that THAT YOU KNEW... and you rejected the truth, as a means for you to live a lie. There will only be shame, regret and eternal, unconsolable regret.

That 'reject' word again, you have to know something or someone to reject it.

I don't know, or have any kind of relationship with your deity, even if a god exists.

You can't reject someone, when they have never appeared to you, or motivated your existence, and you have never even met them. It would be like saying someone rejects 'Bob', with no perception of what 'Bob' is, having never met 'Bob', and having as their only terms of reference stories about 'Bob' and other people's perceptions of 'Bob'.

Though it is kind of a catch-22, as to be able to 'reject' or 'approve' of a god, I would have to die first.

You can tell me that you don't know all day...

I'm telling you that when that Great Gettin' Up Mornin' comes... and you're standing in Front of your maker... that rationalization is going to evaporate from your spirit... and you will be standing there fully exposed as being in possession of the FULL KNOWLEDGE, regarding God, his grace and your rejection of the truth intrinsic to both.

You know ... and you know you know.

You don't need to convince me... because I know you know.

So... well, You know.

Knees... acceptance, life... . Embrace it and reap the rewards, or continue to reject it and continue to suffer the consequences.

Your call, because God gave you the CHOICE.

 

[hipeter924]

Religion, especially Christian religion is deterministic.

'Free Will' isn't free will, when a god has pre-determined your existence, created a social environment through his/her design - and motivated existence as a test to see whether or not that god ultimately deems you worthy to serve him/her for a reward.

Though on earth the major issue is what you are being asked to believe in or advocate, as just like any other earthly institution, religious groups and organizations are just as likely to cause harm as to do good in the world; as evidenced by how one minute you have inquisitions/religious wars, then the next charity and empathy.

Up to you what you want to believe in though.

People that do not follow God or obey his laws (but twist them) cause confusion and cause people to view God as you do. It's unfortunately.

We do have free will. Live for yourself or live for God.

Wars were waged and people killed because God commanded it. It was perfect and good.
Just because you don't believe so doesn't change the fact that God is perfect and good, his ways are good and what you "think" is irrelevant.

Well, that's sort of the problem, did he really command them, or always condemn them for making war or inflicting harm on others*?

Interpretation is where things go wrong, as even if God is just and good, that doesn't immediately imply his followers have correctly interpreted and transcribed - or that they follow the 'right god'.

*Link: Ten Commandments - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not covet

 

[Syriusly]

Let me put this another way.

It makes no more sense to me why Christians would object to homosexuals any more than they would Hindu's.

Based upon the Bible.

Let me put this another way.

Why does it have to make any sense to you at all, since you don't share their belief system?

Again- as long as a person is not using their Religion as an excuse to encourage discrimination- I really don't care.

But when you- or anyone else tells me that homosexuals are bad because God says so- be prepared for me to challenge your religious beliefs.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

I understand why you disagree with what people believe. What I'm trying to understand is why that translates into, "You're doing it wrong. You should be a Christian THIS way", instead of "Your religion sucks, I want no part of it", which would be the logical reaction. I mean, I disagree with Muslims, particularly the radical, violent ones, but it would never occur to me to start trying to reinterpret the Qu'ran for them and tell them they're not practicing Islam "correctly". I'm not any sort of Muslim, so that is both inappropriate and pointless.

I generally reserve telling someone that they are a 'Bad Christian' for the poster who is spouting hateful crap.

But if someone tells me (for example) that they are against homosexuals because of what the Bible says- well then I will challenge that belief- just as if someone told me that they were against blacks because of the Bible.

 

[hipeter924]

If and when death comes, I don't expect anything, especially not a reward or punishment.

You're in for one helluva surprise... except it will not BE a surprise.

At your final judgment, you will know that THAT YOU KNEW... and you rejected the truth, as a means for you to live a lie. There will only be shame, regret and eternal, unconsolable regret.

That 'reject' word again, you have to know something or someone to reject it.

I don't know, or have any kind of relationship with your deity, even if a god exists.

You can't reject someone, when they have never appeared to you, or motivated your existence, and you have never even met them. It would be like saying someone rejects 'Bob', with no perception of what 'Bob' is, having never met 'Bob', and having as their only terms of reference stories about 'Bob' and other people's perceptions of 'Bob'.

Though it is kind of a catch-22, as to be able to 'reject' or 'approve' of a god, I would have to die first.

You can tell me that you don't know all day...

I'm telling you that when that Great Gettin' Up Mornin' comes... and you're standing in Front of your maker... that rationalization is going to evaporate from your spirit... and you will be standing there fully exposed as being in possession of the FULL KNOWLEDGE, regarding God, his grace and your rejection of the truth intrinsic to both.

You know ... and you know you know.

You don't need to convince me... because I know you know.

So... well, You know.

Knees... acceptance, life... . Embrace it and reap the rewards, or continue to reject it and continue to suffer the consequences.

Your call, because God gave you the CHOICE.

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former.

 

[Bonzi]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

 

[paddymurphy]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

Better than playing life by the rules that were made up two thousand + years ago and modified since then to suit the needs of those trying to control people.

 

[Syriusly]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

Any god who would design a hell so that anyone who does not believe in him will suffer for all eternity- doesn't deserve my 'worship'.

 

[Bonzi]

Better than playing life by the rules that were made up two thousand + years ago and modified since then to suit the needs of those trying to control people.

You're so wrong though Paddy, no one is trying to control anyone.
Our self destructive patterns and behaviors are just that. We want them NOT to be but they are, because the flesh wants what the flesh wants! It will die kicking and screaming for it.

But there is a BETTER life for us. An eternal one of peace and joy. We just don't want it and convince ourselves it is not real.

 

[Bonzi]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

Any god who would design a hell so that anyone who does not believe in him will suffer for all eternity- doesn't deserve my 'worship'.

Hell was not designed for us. It was designed for Satan.
We have a choice to follow Satan or God.
People that choose their own way, the fleshly ways of this world, knowingly or unknowingly choose Satan over God -

Everyone has a choice.

 

[Seawytch]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

I don't need to follow the rules written by men for men 2,000 years ago in order to lead a "good" life. No creator worth a grain of salt is going to want me to live contrary to the way he/she made me.

 

[paddymurphy]

Better than playing life by the rules that were made up two thousand + years ago and modified since then to suit the needs of those trying to control people.

You're so wrong though Paddy, no one is trying to control anyone.
Our self destructive patterns and behaviors are just that. We want them NOT to be but they are, because the flesh wants what the flesh wants! It will die kicking and screaming for it.

But there is a BETTER life for us. An eternal one of peace and joy. We just don't want it and convince ourselves it is not real.

There is absolutely nothing destructive about people being gay. I know many. I know that they are far better people than you are. That is obvious from your hateful rhetoric here. How about you simply mind your own fucking business. You want to die kicking and screaming? Cannot happen soon enough for a hateful piece of shit like you.

 

[paddymurphy]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

Any god who would design a hell so that anyone who does not believe in him will suffer for all eternity- doesn't deserve my 'worship'.

Hell was not designed for us. It was designed for Satan.
We have a choice to follow Satan or God.
People that choose their own way, the fleshly ways of this world, knowingly or unknowingly choose Satan over God -

Everyone has a choice.

And you chose the path of hatred. You are so much closer to Satan than you are to God and the sad thing is you have no clue you are.

 

[Bonzi]

I don't worry/concern myself with what happens after death.

If there is a 'god' I am not going to worry about meeting whatever their demands/requirements are, as I don't want/require an afterlife or anything more than the physical world; and I don't seek a reward.

Will there be a negative 'consequence' for not believing in god, or do people just fade out of existence for good? As far as I can tell, it is the later; and you would argue the former

Do you contemplate or consider a hell of eternity? not threatening, just wondering.

I used to think you just cease to exist (which, to me is also a scary thing, but, less so then hell)

The age old question/argument is:

If you do live forever -- is playing this life by your own rules worth the possibility of suffering for eternity?

I don't need to follow the rules written by men for men 2,000 years ago in order to lead a "good" life. No creator worth a grain of salt is going to want me to live contrary to the way he/she made me.

You were made in the image of God.
Adam and Eve chose to live independent of God and defy him.
Since then, we are in a fallen state, and, we now have free will and choices.
God, in His mercy, gave us an "out" by coming to Earth as a human and dying for us.
If you reject that, because you think you know better, and you want to live according to your own like/dislikes and opinions you have that right to do so...

But do you really think that human beings know better? Look at this world... think.... really?