Zone1 Many Possible Messiahs

[Hector12]

Few on earth know what the bible actually teaches. They must be taught by these-Matt 24:45, or they remain in darkness on much.

In verse 19 he gives the keys of the kingdom, the Priesthood, to Peter. He can't do that unless he is the Christ, one of the members of the Godhead or Trinity. Then, he tells Matthew and the other apostles that he is Jesus, THE CHRIST! CHRIST, the MESSIAH. Wake up!!!

The first leader of Christians after the crucifixion was St. James. He was the next oldest brother of Jesus, the author of the epistle by his name, and the first Bishop of Jerusalem.

St. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. At that time Rome was a missionary diocese.

 

[Cougarbear]

The first leader of Christians after the crucifixion was St. James. He was the next oldest brother of Jesus, the author of the epistle by his name, and the first Bishop of Jerusalem.

St. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. At that time Rome was a missionary diocese.

Pretty clear in the same chapter of Matthew the keys of the kingdom were given to first Peter. Others that received keys of the kingdom but were only able to use them with authority from Peter were James and John. The other apostles were also given the keys too. I look at Peter, James and John as a First Presidency of the Church. We only know of a couple of new apostles after Judas and the crucifixion. I'm sure 2 others were called to make a full 12 member quorum of the 12 apostles. 15 total apostles. We just don't have record of the 2 others.

 

[kjw47]

The first leader of Christians after the crucifixion was St. James. He was the next oldest brother of Jesus, the author of the epistle by his name, and the first Bishop of Jerusalem.

St. Peter was the first Bishop of Rome. At that time Rome was a missionary diocese.

The religion that came out of Rome never had Jesus.

 

[irosie91]

Move Over, Genghis Khan. Many Other Men Left Huge Genetic Legacies​

The Smithsonian, June 24, 2024

A 2015 study showed that ten other men have a lot of descendants. The paper is just one of several genetic studies revealing the secrets of descent

Since a 2003 study found evidence that Genghis Khan’s DNA was present in about 16 million men alive at the time, the Mongolian ruler’s genetic prowess has stood as an unparalleled accomplishment. But he isn’t the only man whose reproductive activities still show a significant genetic impact centuries later. A 2015 study published in the European Journal of Human Genetics found that a handful of other men had prolific lineages, too.

To identify those lineages, the geneticists analyzed “the Y chromosomes of more than 5,000 men from 127 populations spanning Asia,” wrote Nature News’ Ewen Callaway in 2015. The Y chromosome is a part of the human genome handed down only from father to son. They found 11 Y-chromosome sequences that were each shared by more than 20 of the analyzed subjects. Chalk down one of those as Genghis Khan’s, and that leaves ten other men who initiated long-lived and widely spread family trees.

Move Over, Genghis Khan. Many Other Men Left Huge Genetic Legacies

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The word “Messiah” comes from a Hebrew word meaning “the anointed one.” Part of the coronation ceremony for an Israelite king was for his head to be anointed with olive oil. Thus, the king of the Israelites was the anointed one, or the Messiah.

The first great Messiah was King David. Under his leadership the Israelites conquered what is now Jordan and what is now Syria.

According to the Old Testament, AKA, the Jewish Bible, King David had many wives. His son Solomon had many more. Although the Old Testament account of Solomon’s wives and concubines exaggerates, we may be sure that Solomon had many sons.

In II Samuel 7:16 King David is told through his prophet Nathan, “And thy house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.” What this means is that the Messiah will be the son of the son of the son…all the way back to the son of David. If we could identify the Y chromosome of David, we would find that there are many potential Messiahs.

Jesus’ claim to be the Messiah is complicated by three factors.

First, Matthew 1:2-16 and Luke 3:23-38 trace David’s decedents to Joseph, not to Jesus, who the New Testament asserts is the son of God.

Second, Matthew 1:2-16 and Luke 1:23-38 give different lineages from David to Joseph.

Third, Matthew 1:20 and Luke 1:35 assert that Jesus is conceived by the Holy Ghost, rather than God the Father.

I am aware that in ages past drawing attention to these discrepancies would have earned me the hostile attention of the Inquisition in many countries, and probably a fiery ending.

I am a Christian who attends church regularly. So were many whom the Inquisition ordered to be burned at the stake.

I am also a non Fundamental Christian. I believe that the Bible was inspired by God, but not dictated by Him. These contradictions intrigue me but they do not disturb my faith.

 

[theHawk]

I am quoting from the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. They are not "anti Christian stuff."

Those who claim that the Bible is "the inerrant word of God" have a difficult time explaining the contradictory lineages from David to Joseph that appear in the Gospel of St. Matthew and the Gospel of St, Luke. They have a difficult time explaining much else, but the contradictory lineages are what I am writing about now.

They are not contradictory. There is biological lineage and legal lineage. In ancient Jewish law if a husband died his brother had to marry the widow. A child would still be considered legally the son of the death first husband. Or it is possible one used the lineage of Mary’s grandfather.

However you are welcomed to provide us with a different messiah and his full lineage, as well as all of the other prophesied requirements that were fulfilled.

 

[Hector12]

They are not contradictory. There is biological lineage and legal lineage. In ancient Jewish law if a husband died his brother had to marry the widow. A child would still be considered legally the son of the death first husband. Or it is possible one used the lineage of Mary’s grandfather.

However you are welcomed to provide us with a different messiah and his full lineage, as well as all of the other prophesied requirements that were fulfilled.

Mat 1:16 - And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luk 3:23 - And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

 

[theHawk]

Mat 1:16 - And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Luk 3:23 - And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,

I’m familiar with the text.

You aren’t proving any of your claims.

 

[Hector12]

I’m familiar with the text.

You aren’t proving any of your claims.

You are not disproving my claims with your twisted logic. Matthew and Luke very clearly give Joseph's father different names.

 

[surada]

They are not contradictory. There is biological lineage and legal lineage. In ancient Jewish law if a husband died his brother had to marry the widow. A child would still be considered legally the son of the death first husband. Or it is possible one used the lineage of Mary’s grandfather.

However you are welcomed to provide us with a different messiah and his full lineage, as well as all of the other prophesied requirements that were fulfilled.

Cyrus the great was also considered a messiah. Christ just meant anointed one.

 

[surada]

Mat 16:13 - When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 16:14 - And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Mat 16:15 - He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 - And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17 - And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 - And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 16:20 - Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

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There is no assertion of Jesus' divinity here. To say that Jesus is the Christ is to say that he is the Messiah, foretold by the Old Testament Prophets. To say that Jesus is the Son of God, again does not assert his divinity.

In Greek mythology many Greek heroes were the son of a god or a goddess, but they were not gods.

David was anointed as the new king. But David's anointing didn't nullify the anointing of Saul.

 

[irosie91]

David was anointed as the new king. But David's anointing didn't nullify the anointing of Saul.

today was have shampoo that CUTS THRU GREASE---but back then---washing olive oil out of one's hair
was not easy

 

[theHawk]

Cyrus the great was also considered a messiah. Christ just meant anointed one.

So you worship Cyrus?

 

[irosie91]

So you worship Cyrus?

the word "messiah" gets thrown around lots in hebrew literature, poetry,
song, and comedy with all kinds of connotations ----few anything close to
"divine"

 

[surada]

So you worship Cyrus?

Nope, but Cyrus was consider a messiah.

According to Chapter 45:1 of the Book of Isaiah, Cyrus was anointed by the Jewish God for this task as a biblical messiah; he is the only non-Jewish figure to be revered in this capacity.

 

[irosie91]

Nope, but Cyrus was consider a messiah.

According to Chapter 45:1 of the Book of Isaiah, Cyrus was anointed by the Jewish God for this task as a biblical messiah; he is the only non-Jewish figure to be revered in this capacity.

lol -----the translation is misleading. for the record--lots of non jewish figures get position in the OT

 

[kjw47]

How does my "lack of true knowledge" enable me to find contradictions in the Bible? What you call “true knowledge” is nothing more than your willingness to ignore the obvious meaning of passages in the Bible.

I know the bible very well. I believe its you in darkness of bible truth.

 

[kjw47]

You are wrong again. Among many other books, I have read the Bible from cover to cover, including the Apocrypha, nine times in eight English translations. That is why I have such an easy time finding contradictions in the Bible.

You insult me because you cannot answer my simple question: how can a book with so many fundamental contradictions be "the inerrant word of God?"

Trinity translations are filled with contradictions. The New world translation fixed it.

 

[Hector12]

I know the bible very well. I believe its you in darkness of bible truth.

What you call my "darkness of bible truth" is your interpretation.

I respect Fundamentalists, but theirs is not the only way of interpreting the Bible.

 

[surada]

lol -----the translation is misleading. for the record--lots of non jewish figures get position in the OT

There's no mention in the Bible about other Messiahs.

 

[surada]

Trinity translations are filled with contradictions. The New world translation fixed it.

So you put the millerites over the Bible.