The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Dead Sea Scrolls.
Zone1 How do we know if the Bible is true?
- Thread starter OneIsTheWord
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Fort Fun Indiana
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Nope. Those were created about 500 years after Isaiah lived.
Bezukhov
Anarcho-Capitalist
The dates of the writing for the Dead Sea Scrolls are 3rd century BCE to the 1st century CE. Isaiah supposedly wrote between 740 BCE to 700 BCE, so you have proven nothing
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The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
The Isaiah scroll, the oldest surviving manuscript of Isaiah: found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and dating from about 150 to 100 BCE, it contains almost the whole Book of Isaiah and is substantially identical with the modern Masoretic text.
Fort Fun Indiana
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You just made his point and destroyed your own.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Actually you don't have a point. You credit some unknown author and want proof from me that Isaiah was the author. The Dead Sea Scrolls credit Isaiah. What proof do you have that it was someone else and when?
Fort Fun Indiana
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I demonstrated-- with your help, thanks -- that they are not original manuscripts written by Isaiah.
Just take the L and move on.
BreezeWood
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there is no mention of jesus on a single dead sea scroll ... they are as reliable for truth as any of the other documents claimed by the desert religions.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Since no one claimed there were original manuscripts, you demonstrated nothing.
You are not obligated to believe anything other than original manuscripts. Keep in mind that:
There are no original manuscripts written by someone named Nero.
There are no original manuscripts written by a Nazarene named Jesus.
There are no original manuscripts written by someone named Julius Caesar.
There are no original manuscripts written by Tutankhamen.
There are no original manuscripts written by Moses.
That fact does not negate their roles in History.
We have the Dead Sea Scrolls dating back thousands of years. Isaiah is covered in great detail.
The Great Isaiah Scroll, for example, is one of the original seven Dead Sea Scrolls discovered. It is the largest and best preserved of all the biblical scrolls, and the only one that is almost complete. Dating from ca. 125 BCE, it is also one of the oldest of the Dead Sea Scrolls, some one thousand years older than the oldest manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible known to us before the scrolls' discovery.
20 additional copies of Isaiah were also discovered. The version of the text is generally in agreement with the Masoretic or traditional version codified in medieval codices, such as the Aleppo Codex.
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The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
Correct. It was Josephus that mentions Jesus and John the Baptist. The Dead Sea Scrolls for the most part deal with the OT manuscripts, prior to Jesus' ministry, and 1,000 years before any Biblical text.
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BreezeWood
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into 100 years ad as your posts even claim without mentioning jesus or the events of the 1st century - and proves judaism did what it could to hide the true events during that time the repudiation of judaism its false commandments and hereditary idolatry ...
Fort Fun Indiana
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JFC, do you people even understand how message boards work? Do you even remember your own words from just hours ago?
Him: "original manuscripts"
You: "Dead Sea Scrolls:
I have never had to deal with such incoherentcy and weasel tactics on any other message board.
TruthNotBS
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Wrong. First of all, cite the passages. If you're referring to the ones that I'm aware of, they have nothing to do with recent events, but rather with the return of Israelites to Israel from Babylon. There's also the hope of all of Israel, including the tribes taken by the Assyrian empire, to be reunited with the tribe of Judah, under a king who is either David himself or one of his descendants. The more common belief among Jews is that it's a king of the line of David, and not David himself.
The texts also state that when the Jews return to the land they will keep Torah, will seek David their king, and will never be dispossessed from the land again. The Jews in the 20th century, until now, don't have all of the land and they hold gay pride parades in the streets of Tel Aviv. None of that coincides with the texts. Most Israeli Jews are secular, they allow themselves to be under an atheist-Jewish government, that has turned Israel into a mecca for sodomites, hosting one of the largest homosexual "pride parades" in the world.
So what occurred in the 20th century with Jews returning en masse after their holocaust, to what was then Palestine under British occupation, has nothing to do with a biblical prophecy.
You're just repeating yourself, and again, you're not citing any verses, because you know that the moment you do that, I will simply read those verses in context and debunk your claptrap.
The current secular Jewish State of Israel, is a welfare recipient, receiving billions of dollars yearly from the United States to keep its head above the water.
The Palestinians are a nation and so are other groups, like the Christian Armenians and others, who live in the land.
Again, cite your source. I assume, since you refuse to cite sources, that you're referring to the "pure language" prophecy, in Zephania 3:9...
"For then I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they all may call on the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one accord."
- Restoration of Purity:
- The "pure language" mentioned is often interpreted as a symbolic or prophetic reference to a future time when all people, including Israel, will worship God in a unified and pure manner. This suggests a spiritual purification and unity among the people.
- Unified Worship:
- The emphasis on calling on the name of the Lord and serving Him with one accord implies a restoration of true and sincere worship, free from the corruptions and idolatry that plagued Israel and other nations.
- Universal Application:
- While the context primarily concerns Israel, the verse speaks of "the peoples" (nations), indicating a universal application where this pure language and unified worship are not limited to Israel but extend to all humanity.
- Metaphorical Language:
- The "new language" can be seen metaphorically as the restoration of a common understanding and faithfulness to God's will, rather than a literal new spoken language. It symbolizes a return to a state of holiness and harmony with God's commandments.
The nation that calls itself "Israel" today is a misnomer-counterfeit and doesn't meet any of the requirements for inheriting the land according to the covenant established in the Old Testament. Moreover, according to the New Testament, which I assume you also believe in, the Jews have been cut off from the vine, due to rejecting Jesus Christ as their messiah and savior. The Israel of God according to the New Testament, are those who are born again in Christ, his disciples, not Jews by pedigree who spit in the face of Jesus and pulled his beard. According to the NT, non-believing Jews are the Synagogue Of Satan, rejected by Jesus himself.
Cite the "prophecy" that way I can examine it in context. Today Jerusalem is disputed and unlike what it says in the OT, the Jews aren't under a righteous Davidic king or monarchy but a godless government. No one is going to Jerusalem from the nations, to learn Torah from righteous Jews. You're essentially taking verses from the OT, that express the expectations of the Israelites thousands of years ago, after their exile in Babylon and projecting that on current events. It doesn't work, because you're ripping those verses out of context and ignoring much of what is being said in those passages.
The Israelis are getting their butts kicked by Hezbollah, Hamas and Yemen, and if it wasn't for Uncle Sam, they would have no army. The nation of Israhell, is plunging itself into chaos, becoming a genocidal pariah-regime around the world. I doubt the non-Jewish nations are going to be looking up to the Israeli Jews for spiritual guidance any time soon.
Again, you're ripping passages from the Hebrew Bible out of context and projecting what is being described there on current events, that have nothing to do with what happened thousands of years ago. If this is your evidence for the bible being the inerrant word of almighty God, you're quite confused and have nothing to offer.
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Scripture
Was redacted and amended several times. .after the fact.
Was redacted and amended several times. .after the fact.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
The Dead Sea Scrolls prove otherwise.
The Dead Sea scrolls date from about 150 BC to 100 AD.
I think the comments on a "JOHN" by Josephus refer to a different John
Woodznutz
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Only a small number of Jews have returned what is today Israel. The "house of Israel", the Christian west, hasn't.
Woodznutz
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To the OP. The Bible has to be studied and understood in order to be believed. That said most who believe it don't understand it and accept it by faith, and most who don't believe it have never read it. And that said, God must open your mind to understand it as well.
TruthNotBS
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According to the NT the Israel of God are those who are born again in Christ, not anti-Christ non-Christian Jews. The true Jews are those who are attached to the vine (i.e. Christ) and haven't been cut off by rejecting Jesus. That's the NT, so any attempt to give those who call themselves Jews and reject Jesus, the status of being Israel, are serving Satan, not YHWH. That's what's Biblical, but since "Christian Zionists" are under the spell of anti-Christ, Zionist Jewry, they think the "Israel" on the map, led by demonic, anti-Christ Jews, is the actual Israel of God. It's not, it's anti-Christ and Satanic:
All of the filth and atheism, secularism, even Marxist communism:
Tens of millions of innocent Christians were slaughtered in Russia as a result of Jewish Communist Bolshevism. Millions of non-Jews starved to death, in Ukraine, China..etc, thanks to Jewish communism. The first prime ministers of "Israel" (The Zionist, secular Jewish State), were Marxists, atheists. The government of Israhell today, is secular, it thumbs its nose at YHWH every single day. These anti-Christ Jews are sodomizing the Holy Land with their filth. This is what you support as a "Christian Zionist", due to your ignorance and obsession with anti-Christ "Jews".
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