Forgiveness

[Sky Dancer]

Forgiving (true forgiveness) takes alot of self examination.

It does in adults, it's much easier in a child. I've seen kids get over greivances with each other very quickly.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Please share your thoughts and feelings about the topic.

Forgiveness cannot be forced, but it can be invited. What's interesting is to examine what isn't willing to forgive inside and to take care of those places.

My understanding from the Bible is that a person must repent first and then comes forgiveness, and where there is no repentance then there is no forgiveness.

The modern way of claiming to forgive others based on one's own feelings is just rubbish and unhealthy.

As the Bible declares:

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

Acts 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

In the prayer Jesus gave which says = "forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors" = that is telling us to pay our own debts.

To forgive is not the end of it, so if we do NOT forgive then we do not have to remain angry or to be hateful or to harm ourselves or harm the other person, but a person who does not repent does not get forgiven.

As far as I'm concerned the Bible is irrelevant to the process of forgiving. I mean no disrespect to you.

Forgiveness does not require repentance. I can forgive someone who will never repent, and who doesn't think of themselves as a sinner.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't forgive but I do forget.

Betray me and I'll forget you ever existed.

 

[strollingbones]

I don't forgive but I do forget.

Betray me and I'll forget you ever existed.

there are no real shades of gray, are there.....i become indifferent

slowly but surely.....you no longer exist to me

 

[Truthmatters]

Forgiving (true forgiveness) takes alot of self examination.

It does in adults, it's much easier in a child. I've seen kids get over greivances with each other very quickly.

Because they dont internalize the offenses as readily as adults do

 

[JP Cusick]

As far as I'm concerned the Bible is irrelevant to the process of forgiving. I mean no disrespect to you.

Forgiveness does not require repentance. I can forgive someone who will never repent, and who doesn't think of themselves as a sinner.

Then that would be you acting like a fool and thereby being one.

And the unrepentant person will respond accordingly.

It really does not matter whether anyone likes the Bible or not because in this case the info is correct and actively verifiable.

 

[Liability]

Nice of you to offer, but I hold no grudge with you.

I didn't say you forgive me.

I said that I forgive you.

I forgive you for every nasty petty offense and slight you have given.

All washed away.

Good for you. Remember, forgiveness is really for YOU. I had no idea you were harboring resentment toward me for some of my posts that offended you.

None whatsoever.

You seem confused.

Let it all go.

That's my advice.

Oooooommmmmm.

 

[BluePhantom]

For me...well there's some people in the world that did some pretty shitty things to me, and of course I have done some pretty shitty things to others as well. For me, to forgive another has very little to do with them actually. It's about letting go of their power to make me miserable. Some people I have forgiven I haven't even told, because I realized that simply because I forgave their actions I also realized that they were not the kind of person I wish to be associated with anymore.

So really forgiveness is for the benefit of the person doing the forgiving and not for the one receiving it. I can remember one very specific time that illustrates this. A former friend of mine did something that was absolutely, 100%, completely reprehensible and I absolutely flipped out. It stayed with me for years and we didn't speak during that time. One night years later I got drunk and wrote him an absolutely scathing email telling him all about himself. He responded with one sentence: "Glad to know I'm still under your skin." After that I started to work on forgiving so I could eliminate his power, and eventually I did.

Self-forgiveness, for me, is far more difficult

 

[Sky Dancer]

Grudges can fade on their own. We can completely forget about an offense.

My sister and I had a conversation about our childhood. She asked my forgiveness for hitting me with a baseball bat. We were playing ball, and I guess I tagged her hard enough at first base to piss her off. She was still holding the bat and let me have it.

I have NO memory of that incident, but it is a big deal to her, because she really got in trouble for it. Apparently, I was pretty injured by it, but I have no memory of it.

 

[Sky Dancer]

As far as I'm concerned the Bible is irrelevant to the process of forgiving. I mean no disrespect to you.

Forgiveness does not require repentance. I can forgive someone who will never repent, and who doesn't think of themselves as a sinner.

Then that would be you acting like a fool and thereby being one.

And the unrepentant person will respond accordingly.

It really does not matter whether anyone likes the Bible or not because in this case the info is correct and actively verifiable.

You don't understand my point of view. Forgiveness has nothing to do with repentance. There are some people who think they are ENTITLED to be harmful, and they do not repent at all. I can still forgive them without their repentance.

I understand the Bible is YOUR reference, but it isn't mine. Can you live with that?

Take a look around the planet. There are more people who have nothing to do with the Bible than those who do.

 

[Truthmatters]

As far as I'm concerned the Bible is irrelevant to the process of forgiving. I mean no disrespect to you.

Forgiveness does not require repentance. I can forgive someone who will never repent, and who doesn't think of themselves as a sinner.

Then that would be you acting like a fool and thereby being one.

And the unrepentant person will respond accordingly.

It really does not matter whether anyone likes the Bible or not because in this case the info is correct and actively verifiable.

Your reigion is based on myth.

it is not provable by any facts.

it will die off like most religions have.


Telling us we have to believe what you believe is arrogance

 

[BluePhantom]

Grudges can fade on their own. We can completely forget about an offense.

My sister and I had a conversation about our childhood. She asked my forgiveness for hitting me with a baseball bat. We were playing ball, and I guess I tagged her hard enough at first base to piss her off. She was still holding the bat and let me have it.

I have NO memory of that incident, but it is a big deal to her, because she really got in trouble for it. Apparently, I was pretty injured by it, but I have no memory of it.

Occasionally the incident may not have even happened. I know one person who is completely furious with me for doing something that I never did. He remembers the event vividly. He can tell you what I was wearing, the exact words I said, he can describe the look on my face...except for one problem: it never happened. I have absolutely no idea what this guy is talking about, but he swears to God it happened. That's a tough one to deal with.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Grudges can fade on their own. We can completely forget about an offense.

My sister and I had a conversation about our childhood. She asked my forgiveness for hitting me with a baseball bat. We were playing ball, and I guess I tagged her hard enough at first base to piss her off. She was still holding the bat and let me have it.

I have NO memory of that incident, but it is a big deal to her, because she really got in trouble for it. Apparently, I was pretty injured by it, but I have no memory of it.

Occasionally the incident may not have even happened. I know one person who is completely furious with me for doing something that I never did. He remembers the event vividly. He can tell you what I was wearing, the exact words I said, he can describe the look on my face...except for one problem: it never happened. I have absolutely no idea what this guy is talking about, but he swears to God it happened. That's a tough one to deal with.

Hmm. Is it possible it happened and you dissociated? I'm just sayin', that's an unusual circumstance.

If he can verify the incident with facts, you're screwed.

 

[JP Cusick]

Your religion is based on myth.

it is not provable by any facts.

it will die off like most religions have.

Telling us we have to believe what you believe is arrogance

When you or anyone rejects the truth simply because you reject the source, then the arrogance is your own.

Attacking the messenger while avoiding the message is the biggest blunder of them all.

 

[BluePhantom]

Grudges can fade on their own. We can completely forget about an offense.

My sister and I had a conversation about our childhood. She asked my forgiveness for hitting me with a baseball bat. We were playing ball, and I guess I tagged her hard enough at first base to piss her off. She was still holding the bat and let me have it.

I have NO memory of that incident, but it is a big deal to her, because she really got in trouble for it. Apparently, I was pretty injured by it, but I have no memory of it.

Occasionally the incident may not have even happened. I know one person who is completely furious with me for doing something that I never did. He remembers the event vividly. He can tell you what I was wearing, the exact words I said, he can describe the look on my face...except for one problem: it never happened. I have absolutely no idea what this guy is talking about, but he swears to God it happened. That's a tough one to deal with.

Hmm. Is it possible it happened and you dissociated? I'm just sayin', that's an unusual circumstance.

If he can verify the incident with facts, you're screwed.

LOL no. In fact there are several people who were apparently there that have told him it never happened either but he persists with his belief.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Occasionally the incident may not have even happened. I know one person who is completely furious with me for doing something that I never did. He remembers the event vividly. He can tell you what I was wearing, the exact words I said, he can describe the look on my face...except for one problem: it never happened. I have absolutely no idea what this guy is talking about, but he swears to God it happened. That's a tough one to deal with.

Hmm. Is it possible it happened and you dissociated? I'm just sayin', that's an unusual circumstance.

If he can verify the incident with facts, you're screwed.

LOL no. In fact there are several people who were apparently there that have told him it never happened either but he persists with his belief.

He feels aggrieved. It's up to him to forgive for his own benefit. All you can do is scratch your head, and try and be kind.

 

[Truthmatters]

Your religion is based on myth.

it is not provable by any facts.

it will die off like most religions have.

Telling us we have to believe what you believe is arrogance

When you or anyone rejects the truth simply because you reject the source, then the arrogance is your own.

Attacking the messenger while avoiding the message is the biggest blunder of them all.

Im not attacking the messenger.

Your religion has no more proof of its claims than any religion.

It is myth that YOU chose to believe.

Why do you hate me for not sharing your myth?

 

[BluePhantom]

Hmm. Is it possible it happened and you dissociated? I'm just sayin', that's an unusual circumstance.

If he can verify the incident with facts, you're screwed.

LOL no. In fact there are several people who were apparently there that have told him it never happened either but he persists with his belief.

He feels aggrieved. It's up to him to forgive for his own benefit. All you can do is scratch your head, and try and be kind.

Pretty much, yeah. Anyhow, one of the things that has helped me forgive in the past was to take a hard look at the situation and try to be honest about whether I played a role in it. Sometimes I found that I had done some things to kind of set up a situation that backed the other person into a corner without realizing it. That helped me to forgive them.

Also I finally came to the conclusion that it's pretty rare for someone to go out of their way to intentionally hurt someone. More often than not I have found, someone is simply working toward a specific goal and their interests just happen to conflict with my own. My parents divorced after my father was busted with another woman. It took a while for my mother (and me) to realize that he didn't have an affair in order to hurt my mother. He was just unhappy and looking for a way to find happiness and unfortunately my mother was simply in the way. My mother's pain was not his goal, it was the side-effect. I have found that recognizing that usually whatever the transgressor did wasn't intended personally helps as well.

 

[JP Cusick]

Im not attacking the messenger.

Your religion has no more proof of its claims than any religion.

It is myth that YOU chose to believe.

Why do you hate me for not sharing your myth?

I am not asking you or anyone to accept my religion even if it would be to your own betterment if you did.

All I said and pointed out was that forgiveness without repentance is both wrong and foolish.

My posting linked here = Page 3 post 34 of this thread.

You reject the source of the info which is the messenger while the message is still very true and accurate, and I was sticking to the subject of this thread.

FYI.

 

[masquerade]

Forgiveness is a choice, much like everything else in life. I may not "feel" like forgiving someone. But it does not mean I shouldn't. In fact that is probably the best time to make that decision. It heals, the one doing the forgiving.

IMO, "shoulds" have nothing to do with forgiveness. Forgiveness feels better. It beats holding a grudge. Nonetheless forgiveness cannot be forced.

It must flow from an authentic place, where we have taken care of ourselves when we've been hurt.

Forgiveness doesn't require an apology.

"Should", has a lot to do with it, IMO. I should feed myself, much the same with forgiveness

I believe the word 'should' is a very damaging word and wouldn't mind if it was removed from our vocabulary. Each time I or anyone uses the word 'should' we are, in effect, saying 'wrong'. Either we are wrong or we're going to be wrong or we were wrong. The word 'should' does not give us a choice. I would replace the word 'should' with the word 'could'. 'Could' gives us a choice and we are never wrong.

So and so has no idea I hold a grudge against them for something they did to me several years ago. I should forgive them, let go and move on.

If I don't, then I have made myself wrong.

So and so has no idea I hold a grudge against them for something they did to me several years ago. If I wanted, I could forgive them, let go and move on.


I've said this many times in many different threads and I'm going to say it again.

One doesn't need to know how to forgive ... hell one may not want to forgive, but the very fact that one is willing to forgive begins the healing process.