For Those Who Do Believe In God...

[Coloradomtnman]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers? And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

 

[AllieBaba]

I love bait threads.

God knows if you really have faith and are saved. If you don't, you go to hell. Pretty simple.

And what makes my religion right is that it is right, it is of God, by God and for God. God indwells in those with faith, and in the Holy Word. But you can't see those things unless you ask to see them.

Just because you don't believe it and mock it doesn't mean it isn't true, and in the end, every person in hell will believe. But of course, it will be too late.

And the bible tells us not to waste pearls before swine. People who bait, torment and tease Christians are not worth the effort of trying to convert. You aren't interested in being converted. You simply want to humiliate and torture those who believe, and perhaps make them lose faith.

Have fun.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I love bait threads.

God knows if you really have faith and are saved. If you don't, you go to hell. Pretty simple.

And what makes my religion right is that it is right, it is of God, by God and for God. God indwells in those with faith, and in the Holy Word. But you can't see those things unless you ask to see them.

Just because you don't believe it and mock it doesn't mean it isn't true, and in the end, every person in hell will believe. But of course, it will be too late.

And the bible tells us not to waste pearls before swine. People who bait, torment and tease Christians are not worth the effort of trying to convert. You aren't interested in being converted. You simply want to humiliate and torture those who believe, and perhaps make them lose faith.

Have fun.

So, no, you can't answer those questions. Thanks for your input.

 

[AllieBaba]

I did answer the question, swine.

 

[Avatar4321]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers?

I can try. Dont know if youll be satisfied.

And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

Possibly.

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I?

How can you believe in something, but not believe in it? Im not sure thats possible.

Of course, if you don't believe then you won't go to heaven. Mostly because you have to be able to believe before you can make the changes in your life and seek the Divine changes necessary to withstand heaven.

Granted, you also have to remember, not every faith believes in the heaven/hell type scenario found in Modern Christian.

So then why would I choose to believe?

That's not something I can answer for you. I can tell you why I choose to believe. I choose to believe because I've experienced the power/joy/love/glory of God. If I denied it, I''d be lying to myself. I dont want to lie to myself or others.

How do I choose to believe?

Interesting question. This is one I can answer citing scripture:

26 Now, as I said concerning faith—that it was not a perfect knowledge—even so it is with my words. Ye cannot know of their surety at first, unto perfection, any more than faith is a perfect knowledge.

27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge.

30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow.

31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own likeness.

32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away.

33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good. (Alma 32:26-33)

I should also add the warning later on in the chapter:

37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit.

38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out.

39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof.

40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life. (Alma 32: 37-40)

Ill even sum it up for you:

You can develop faith by experimenting. Testing it out. Try having faith. Do everything that entails it. If you want to know whether God exists, pray to Him. It's what I did. I didn't know whether God existed. I believed it was possible. But I didnt know for sure. So I decided I wanted to find out and i exercised faith. I reasoned it out with myself. I dont know if God lives, but if He does and if He is all powerful He can find a way to reveal to me that He does exist.

And I told the Lord if He would reveal the truth of it to me, I would follow Him. I was ready not only to believe, but to act on the belief.

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

I asked God whether it was and His Spirit testified to me that it was true.

Why do you believe?

It's true. It's light. It expands the mind. It brings things clearly into view. It expands my capacity to love, to think, to become. I wouldnt be nearly the man I am today if I didnt have faith.

Explain faith.

Not really a question, but faith is a belief in things which are unseen but which are true. Faith is more than just belief, it's an active belief. It's a principle of power that provides the individual with the ability to grow, act, change, and achieve.

Through faith the worlds were created. Through Faith the sick have been healed. Through faith miracles have been wrought. I've seen it myself.

Faith can turn the most pathetic worthless life into someone with confidence, strength, and power. It can turn a sinner into a Saint.

Faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Gospel. It's the principle in which all others derive.

 

[AllieBaba]

He won't listen, that's not the answer he wants.

 

[Avatar4321]

He won't listen, that's not the answer he wants.

It's not my job to make him listen. He's a big boy.

Besides, he isnt the only one reading.

 

[AllieBaba]

I know. I played that game for years. But then I studied the bible, and it says it's a waste to tangle with people who aren't interested, because all it does is drag God's name and the faithful into the dirt.

Anymore, I'm concise and not very nice about it. This is a bait thread, that's all it is. All it will do is draw those who would love the opportunity to re-crucify Christ, and whose greatest joy in life is ridiculing Christians and trying to make them lose faith.

I think it's a tool of Satan to spread unbelief. For a long time I felt the other way. But I've yet to see an internet Christian basher convert, or see anyone online in a forum such as this be converted by anything said within the forum. You see conversions at Christian forums, sometimes, because in addition to attracting anti-Christian demons, you also attract those who are seeking God.

But you don't get that here. And my ability to turn the other cheek is limited when it comes to people who are trying their hardest to destroy the faith of people, and increase the numbers of those headed to hell.

When really there's no excuse for it. They claim not to believe...if they don't, then why do they try so hard to un-convince people? What does it hurt, if it's not true, for people to believe in God and morality?

And that's the crux of it. That's not what it's about. CM isn't looking for answers. He's looking for ways to increase the ranks of hell. He doesn't realize it, he's a tool, but that's the long and short of it.

So anyway, pearls before swine. There's no point..at least in this forum, in response to such a blatant attack.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I love bait threads.

God knows if you really have faith and are saved. If you don't, you go to hell. Pretty simple.

And what makes my religion right is that it is right, it is of God, by God and for God. God indwells in those with faith, and in the Holy Word. But you can't see those things unless you ask to see them.

Just because you don't believe it and mock it doesn't mean it isn't true, and in the end, every person in hell will believe. But of course, it will be too late.

And the bible tells us not to waste pearls before swine. People who bait, torment and tease Christians are not worth the effort of trying to convert. You aren't interested in being converted. You simply want to humiliate and torture those who believe, and perhaps make them lose faith.

These, your answers, don't shed any light on the subjects I acked about, Allie. Maybe they make sense for you, but for me they don't.

God would know if I have faith, real faith. Well, how does one have real faith if, for someone like me, to have that faith requires a willful suspension of disbelief. I can want to say "Lord Jesus, I accept you into my heart as my one and true savior." to avoid Hell and ensure that I go to Heaven, but I wouldn't really believe. I can even try it (which I have, numerous times) and it just feels hollow and insincere and it is. I can't just choose to believe it. Its not possible considering how irrational and not reasonable religion is to someone who thinks rationally i.e. Noah's Ark, Moses and the Red Sea, and other supernatural events depicted in religious writings. So, inessence, I can't have faith in religious beliefs. And how would I know which one to put my faith if I could?

How do you know your religion is the right one. Just answering "Cause it is." doesn't answer the question. How do you know it is?

Why do you believe in Christianity? What made you choose that religion?

What is faith to you?

I didn't attack your faith in this thread, nor anyone else's. The questions are pointed, yes, but hardly are they attacks.

And if you don't want to defend your answers, then don't answer the questions. Go to some other thread and call non-believers swine there, Ms. Self-Righteous.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

How can you believe in something, but not believe in it? Im not sure thats possible.

Maybe that question isn't that clear. Let me clarify: I am a skeptic. To me the stories in the Bible, the Quran, the Bagavad Gita, the ones which are supernatural, are unbelievable. Let me just stick with Christianity since its the religion you and I are probably most familiar with. Take for example the story of Noah and the Ark. To me its a very hard story to believe was an actual event. But, according to Christians, if I don't believe Jesus is my savior, and really believe it, then I'm going to Hell to burn for eternity. So I can try to believe, but if my only incentive is to avoid everlasting damnation, that isn't really a sincere belief is it? You don't believe just so you can avoid Hell, right?

So, does that make it clearer?

Of course, if you don't believe then you won't go to heaven. Mostly because you have to be able to believe before you can make the changes in your life and seek the Divine changes necessary to withstand heaven.

Granted, you also have to remember, not every faith believes in the heaven/hell type scenario found in Modern Christian.

Now, for me, a person who attempts to be rational, there is a hypocrisy to that belief: God is love, all-merciful, and forgiving, but if I don't believe his son is my savior, then I burn forever in Hell. That doesn't seem very merciful to me. It seems like a way to convert people: through fear of everlasting damnation. I can't buy it. So, if I can't believe it because it seem hypocritical to me, then am I just screwed?

That's not something I can answer for you. I can tell you why I choose to believe. I choose to believe because I've experienced the power/joy/love/glory of God. If I denied it, I''d be lying to myself. I dont want to lie to myself or others.

In what way have you experienced the power/joy/love/glory of God? How would you relate that to someone who didn't believe?

Interesting question. This is one I can answer citing scripture:

I should also add the warning later on in the chapter:

Ill even sum it up for you:

You can develop faith by experimenting. Testing it out. Try having faith. Do everything that entails it. If you want to know whether God exists, pray to Him. It's what I did. I didn't know whether God existed. I believed it was possible. But I didnt know for sure. So I decided I wanted to find out and i exercised faith. I reasoned it out with myself. I dont know if God lives, but if He does and if He is all powerful He can find a way to reveal to me that He does exist.

What do you mean by "exercising faith"? Did you try exercising faith in other religions first, or did you go with Christianity first and it has nothing to do with that you live in a Christian nation, it was just coincidental that you went with Christianity first and it was the right way to go?

And I told the Lord if He would reveal the truth of it to me, I would follow Him. I was ready not only to believe, but to act on the belief.

I asked God whether it was and His Spirit testified to me that it was true.

How did God's Spirit testify to you that it was true?

It's true. It's light. It expands the mind. It brings things clearly into view. It expands my capacity to love, to think, to become. I wouldnt be nearly the man I am today if I didnt have faith.

That sounds an awful lot like LSD.

Not really a question, but faith is a belief in things which are unseen but which are true. Faith is more than just belief, it's an active belief. It's a principle of power that provides the individual with the ability to grow, act, change, and achieve.

Through faith the worlds were created. Through Faith the sick have been healed. Through faith miracles have been wrought. I've seen it myself.

Faith can turn the most pathetic worthless life into someone with confidence, strength, and power. It can turn a sinner into a Saint.

Faith in Jesus Christ is the foundation of the Gospel. It's the principle in which all others derive.

How can you believe in something that is unseen and know its true. Do you really believe in faith healing? I thought a lot of those so-called faith healers were con men. What miracles have you seen?

I would define faith as the Desire to believe.

 

[manu1959]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers? And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

you know the faith you have that god does not exist......it is the other side of that coin.....

 

[Coloradomtnman]

you know the faith you have that god does not exist......it is the other side of that coin.....

Christians often react with this sort of mentality. What you don't understand is that atheists don't have faith. Generally, atheists just refuse to believe in something that isn't testable or observable, but to which there is much evidence to refute that it exists. I'm an agnostic. That means that I don't know if there is a supreme being. I'm open to there being one, and I would really like for there to be an afterlife. But there isn't any concrete, real, verifiable evidence that such a thing exists.

Sorry, but I'm not going to think to myself, "Well, I'm scared of Hell so I'll just believe Jesus is my savior." Not only is that not sincere, and cowardly, but its irrational.

Science isn't a religion. Its a method: the scientific method about which we all learned in high school and college. I don't dogmatically believe everything that scientists (those who practice the scientific method in a certain field of study to discover and interpret the Universe) publish. But, considering that we have made vast advances in technology since the conception of the scientific method, of which there are very many concrete, real, observable results all around us (including the machine on which you read this and the electricity used to power it) I am more inclined to give science more credit than an ancient book of Jewish myths which contain stories of unbelievable events and supernatural occurrences, hypocrisies, and warnings of damnation. Not to mention many arbitrary rules by which we should all live.

Since you and nobody else can prove God exists, and the burden of proof lies with the evangelist to prove his existence to convert rational people to believe supernatural things of which there is no concrete evidence, I will live my life as though he doesn't exist.

That doesn't mean I'm amoral. Just the opposite, in fact. But to understand that is a whole different thread or even a book with many chapters and many pages, but with a whole lot more verifiable and logical claims than the Bible.

 

[Againsheila]

And not just Christians.

Can you answer any or all of these questions for non-believers? And be prepared if you answer, to defend your answer. Who knows? Maybe you'll just make a believer outta somebody.

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I? So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

You can't just "decide" to believe. Either you have faith or you don't. God knows the difference. If you are truly interested, attend a church or two or three, or a synagogue, or any other religious institution you like and try LISTENING, instead of just preaching.

 

[jeffrockit]

How can you believe in something, but not believe in it? Im not sure thats possible.

How can you believe in something that is unseen and know its true.


Can you see air?
It is really not up to others to convince you. That's the job of the holy spirit...either you are moved to believe by the holy spirit or you are not. The conversion can only come from within.

 

[xsited1]

I'm content in letting non-believers BURN IN HELL FOR ALL OF ETERNITY!

 

[jeffrockit]

Now, for me, a person who attempts to be rational, there is a hypocrisy to that belief: God is love, all-merciful, and forgiving, but if I don't believe his son is my savior, then I burn forever in Hell. That doesn't seem very merciful to me. It seems like a way to convert people: through fear of everlasting damnation. I can't buy it. So, if I can't believe it because it seem hypocritical to me, then am I just screwed?

That is a big misconception by non-Christians about God. Yes God is love, all-merciful and forgiving but He is also a jealous, vengeful, righteous God.

This misconception has been fed into by the "seeker friendly" churches where everyone is ok to do their thing as long as it hurts no one. This has watered down the true Christianity to make it "safe" for all. An analogy would be what the Republicans have done to Conservatism. In order for true Christianity to work, you have to follow the teachings of Christ and in that there is really no wiggle room to make it right for all. Most people just can't commit to the all the requirements of being a Christian. That is not to say that Christians walk the perfect walk every day of their life but most try to live a sin free life. I see nothing wrong with the moral compass it provides.

I look at it this way. In the end if I am right in my beliefs I will spend eternity with Jesus and if I am wrong, I have missed nothing and have had a wonderful life. I win either way.

 

[manu1959]

you know the faith you have that god does not exist......it is the other side of that coin.....

Christians often react with this sort of mentality. What you don't understand is that atheists don't have faith. Generally, atheists just refuse to believe in something that isn't testable or observable, but to which there is much evidence to refute that it exists. I'm an agnostic. That means that I don't know if there is a supreme being. I'm open to there being one, and I would really like for there to be an afterlife. But there isn't any concrete, real, verifiable evidence that such a thing exists.

Sorry, but I'm not going to think to myself, "Well, I'm scared of Hell so I'll just believe Jesus is my savior." Not only is that not sincere, and cowardly, but its irrational.

Science isn't a religion. Its a method: the scientific method about which we all learned in high school and college. I don't dogmatically believe everything that scientists (those who practice the scientific method in a certain field of study to discover and interpret the Universe) publish. But, considering that we have made vast advances in technology since the conception of the scientific method, of which there are very many concrete, real, observable results all around us (including the machine on which you read this and the electricity used to power it) I am more inclined to give science more credit than an ancient book of Jewish myths which contain stories of unbelievable events and supernatural occurrences, hypocrisies, and warnings of damnation. Not to mention many arbitrary rules by which we should all live.

Since you and nobody else can prove God exists, and the burden of proof lies with the evangelist to prove his existence to convert rational people to believe supernatural things of which there is no concrete evidence, I will live my life as though he doesn't exist.

That doesn't mean I'm amoral. Just the opposite, in fact. But to understand that is a whole different thread or even a book with many chapters and many pages, but with a whole lot more verifiable and logical claims than the Bible.

what you don't understand is i am not a christian nor do i belive in god yet i understand why people of faith have it ....the burden of proof or disproof lies with you....it is you choice.....

you can choose to have faith and enter into a relationship with god or you can chose to have faith that god does not exist and enter into a relationship with nothing......

you sure aren't very open minded tollerant or accepting ..... that was a liberals strong suit....

 

[Dr. T. Sanchez]

God hates you. Burn in hell, you miserable fuck.

 

[Anguille]

God hates you.

How do you know?

 

[Kalam]

If I decide to believe in Jesus Christ, or Mohammed, or whomever, just so I don't go to Hell and go to Heaven (or Paradise or wherever) when I die, then I don't really believe do I?

I hate to nitpick, but one doesn't believe in Muhammad ﷺ. Muhammad was a historical figure. He was a man... not a god or divine in any sense as the Christian Jesus is supposed to be. According to Islam, he had the distinction of being the "Seal of the Prophets," the deliverer of what is described as Allah's final revelation to humankind.

So then why would I choose to believe? How do I choose to believe?

I suppose you'd choose to believe if the philosophy of Islam appealed to you.

What makes your religion so special that you know its the right one out of all the others out there? How do you know?

It's the religion that appeals the most to me. It's the right religion for me because it upholds moral principles that I agree with, it provides structure, and because my personal interpretation of it is rooted in logic (in my opinion, that is... certainly more so than the majority of religious beliefs.)

Why do you believe?

Explain faith.

Allah's existence can be demonstrated logically. You may not agree with this, but it should at least make you think:
The Kalam Cosmological Argument: A Summary (not my namesake BTW )

I should say that my religious beliefs aren't exactly orthodox. Orthodox Islam is, for the most part, at odds with rationality. My beliefs are closest to this: Mu'tazili - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia