Floyd verdict thread (moments away)

[basquebromance]

how about celebrating the conviction of a Latino gangbanger who killed an 8-year-old girl in a drive-by? Would the media be as giddy about that?

 

[basquebromance]

We’re told that this is only the beginning, big changes are in the air. Does that mean every case against a cop will come with threats of mob violence?

Here’s one big change in policing that will come out of the Chauvin trial: No longer will police use the least amount of force on vulnerable individuals, like George Floyd. From here on out, the safety of the perp will take a back seat to avoiding unflattering cellphone videos.

A key point brought out at trial was this: As soon as Chauvin arrived on the scene, he would have been within his rights to use a Taser or stun gun on Floyd. The prosecution’s use-of-force experts agreed!

Chauvin employed a less aggressive restraint that looked worse to bystanders. Big mistake

 

[postman]

Aiding and abetting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Under the English common law, an accomplice is a person who actively participates in the commission of a crime, even if they take no part in the actual criminal offense.

Accomplices have been prosecuted for felony murder even if the actual person who committed the murder died at the crime scene or otherwise did not face capital punishment.

 

[struth]

I am not sure where you quote suggest that Felony Murder is only about charging co-conspiritors...it's not.

Then you ignored the example

Your citation:

Initially it was strictly applied, encompassing any death that occurred during the course of a felony, regardless of who caused it. Therefore, if a police officer attempting to stop a Robbery accidentally shot and killed an innocent passerby, the robber could be charged with murder.

Yep...co-conspiritors to the robbery could be charged with the felony murder as well.

I again fail to see how your quote proves your point or disproves mine? I never suggested a co-conspirator couldn't be charged. Some states however have put some limits, on that though.

But that's why off the mark of what we are talking about...we were discussing how assault couldn't be the felony used for felony murder, and that would merge, via the merger doctrine.

Chauvin was not charged with felony murder.

Felony murder came about as a solution to the "prisoners dilemma".

Imagine a gang assault where one gang member commits murder, but the only witnesses are the other gang members. If they all refuse to identify who did the killing, nobody gets charged with murder.

But under the felony murder statute, they don't need to know which gang member pulled the trigger, as they can all be charged with the murder.

Do you get it now?

Minn State for 2nd Degree, is their felony murder law. I provided the link.

I know what felony murder is, I just showed you over and over again what it was.

Under your hypo they wouldn't be charged with felony murder unless they were engaged in a different felony...like robbery. If it was just a murder, they could be charged with conspiracy to murder, or principals, but not felony murder unless they were engaged in a felony that didn't merge.

In Minn, under the Second Degree murder stat, if it was a drive by they could be charged however with 2nd degree murder.

Sec. 609.19 MN Statutes

Yes keep reading dude... This has been pointed out. Go to section 2 part 2

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:


(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

I did...the officer to my knowledge wasn't subject to a protective or restraining order against George. Do you have something to show us differently?

 

[basquebromance]

"According to the medical examiner, it was the stress of being restrained — combined with Floyd’s heart condition and massive amount of fentanyl in his system — that killed him."

If lying on the ground was too much stress on Floyd’s heart, how about 50,000 volts of electricity?

 

[struth]

Chauvin was not charged with felony murder.

Minn State for 2nd Degree, is their felony murder law. I provided the link.

I know what felony murder is, I just showed you over and over again what it was.

Wrong. Felony murder is being able to convict somebody who is completely innocent of murder, with murder.

I don't disagree...Felony Murder doesn't require the intent to kill.....I've thought I said that. The Minn Stat states that as well...

However the merger doctrine, does not allow assault to be that felony since it merges in with the murder....

 

[postman]

Felony Murder

Felony murder is a legal rule that expands the definition of murder. Learn more about the definition of felony murder, as well as the laws and penatlues.

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com

What is Felony Murder?
Felony murder is a legal rule that expands the definition of murder. It applies when someone commits a certain kind of felony and someone else dies in the course of it. It doesn’t matter whether the death was intentional or accidental—the defendant is liable for it. The rule is usually limited to felonies that are inherently or foreseeably dangerous to human life

Unlike most murder charges, felony murder doesn’t require the intent to kill, only:

• the intent to commit the underlying felony (the “predicate felony”), and
• that someone died as a result of the felony.

 

[struth]

The verdict was BS, guilty on all 3 counts. Manslaughter should have been the charge he was convicted on. 2nd and 3rd Degree murder charges were not called for since both require intent to kill the victim, this was obviously not the case. Even more disheartening is the fact the media is trying to make Floyd some kind of hero. Fact is he was a convicted criminal with a drug habit and not a person to be looked up to.

Actually 3rd Degree Murder in Minn doesn't require an intent to kill. It is what a lot of jurisdiction refer to as a "depraved heart" murder.

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

Sec. 609.195 MN Statutes

Floyd may have been a drug addict, and convict...but that doesn't mean he should have died in that manner.

He was responsible for a home invasion and pointed a gun a the belly of a pregnant women, he should shot for that alone. They guy was a criminal thug who was also a drug addict so why is the media praising his life?

I don't care what he did in his past...he didn't deserve to die like this.

I haven't heard the media praise his life....but then again I am not sure what media you listen to.

I have heard many say he didn't deserve to die...which he didn't.

The issue in this case, was the police officer's illegal and murderous actions, not George's history. Being an addict doesn't mean you fail morally, being a murderer certainly does.

The asshole was a drugged out street thug that was passing counterfeit bills. He resisted arrests.

I get tired of hearing this sorry ass "mababydidunutin" bullshit out of the Negroes .

Bad things happen to street thugs all the time.

The police officer did absolutely nothing wrong.

He was lynched by a vicious hateful Negro Mob with the help of some very sorry pathetic White Guilt pukes. Disgusting.

He was convicted of 3 count of murder through our countries legal system. God bless America. I don’t know what reality you’re living in but it sure isn’t this one

Yes, our legal system, while not 100 percent perfect, works. It's sad that so many folks have attempt to overthrow it...like firebombing Federal Courthouse, or ignoring Court's, and continuing to commit on cases as they jury is out.

Personally though, guilty or not, I feel like the cop did not receive anything remotely resembling a fair trial

The chances of any verdict but " guilty" was not happening in that environment, no matter what proof might have surfaced. the bullshit was off the charts, the prosecution was playing fuck fuck games, ( which the judge failed to deal with ), the threats to burn the city if not found guilty, the previous SHTF riots from last year in the jury's minds, intimidation of witnesses, doxxing of witnesses, threats against witnesses, threats against lawyers, threats against the jury, threats against the families of jury was intense, threats to dox jury and release their personal information after the trial for payback, threats / intimidation from the highest levels of government, from congressman, comments from the president, screaming violent mobs demanding guilty verdicts, jury not sequestered, so they talked to family and knew all about these threats and were thus scared of what might happen, the city paying the family 27 million settlement, and the jury knowing it, which screams guilt, and fuck,

The entire trial was offensive as hell to the ideals the country was founded on, the last 200 years of law and precedent.

Completely disgusting. Guilt or innocence should be determined in a fair, impartial court, free from threats, intimidation, and misconduct by elements on the street or government, as well as political interference by government, or mobs of angry rioters. steps should have been taken to reduce such interference and the fact they didn't happen, throws doubt on the entire thing. which should scare and offend everyone, as if it can happen there in that instance, it can in others and likely will, as when bad behavior is allowed to happen, it tends to spread.

It is disgusting to see how we threw away justice to satisfy the hateful Black mob. Equally disgusting was seeing how the pathetic weak White Guilt pukes went along with it.

You can certainly argue that the jury was prejudiced, via the media, riots, and comments by the Dems...we will what the Court of Appeals says

In my opinion he was certainly at least guilty of manslaughter based on the evidence I heard at trial

You don't think Chauvin was being reckless and intending to inflict pain on Floyd as he knelt on his back and neck while Floyd screamed in pain and begged for his life? Manslaughter is an accident. 3rd and 2nd degree is being reckless and intending to inflict pain.

So, why didnt he taze him, as legally entitled and instead used less lethal methods of restraint.??
Floyd was saying he couldn't breathe before Chauvin even touched him.

Right he was saying he couldn't breath before... They called an ambulance. So why throw the man on his face while handcuffed and kneel on his neck and back?! Thats insane. And even more insane that he stayed there as long as he did while Floyd begged for his life. Sit the man up. Its not difficult.

Because he was resisting and under the affects of 9ng of Fatanol.

Sounds like he should of called for a medic and got him help for the potential OD, instead of murdering him...very reckless behavior on the officer's part. Certainly not the type of thing a reasonable officer would have done.

Yes reckless and also staying on that mans back as he pleaded for air and his life would be the assault that contributed to the death that elevates the 3rd and 2nd degree charges. Had they sat the man up and let him sit on the curb while the ambulance came then Floyd would likely still be here today.

well an assault isn't necessary...it's the degree of recklessness...for third degree it's a depraved heart....the second degree will likely get tossed, in that it requires either the victim to have a protective order against the killer, or the person being committing some sort of felony, that doesn't merge with the killing..so assault wouldn't cut it.

Sec. 609.19 MN Statutes

Thats incorrect. Did you watch the trial? The judge took a good amount of time to read these charges, the law and explained what the law meant to the jury before the lawyers started their closing statements.

I did watch much of it...and what's wrong? I literally provided a link to the law. I am sure the Judge did read the law, as they always do....however that doesn't mean the jury always gets it right.

What was I incorrect about in my post?

 

[basquebromance]

 

[postman]

What was I incorrect about in my post?

Chauvin wasn't charged with felony murder.

 

[basquebromance]

The left needs to stop worshiping criminals!

 

[postman]

However the merger doctrine, does not allow assault to be that felony since it merges in with the murder....

I posted what felony murder is. It is not the same as murder (a felony).

An example: A convicted felon buys a gun from somebody who knows he's a felon, but sells it to him anyway (a predicate offense). The felon kills somebody with the gun.

The felon gets charged with murder (a felony). The guy who sold the gun, gets charged with felony murder.

 

[Flash]

Nothing good will come of this injustice to the police officer. The Negroes will expolit this stupid woke weakness as much as they can to get money and not be held accountable for their crimes. These pathetic weak White Guilt pukes will fall all over themselves kissing Black ass.

 

[postman]

Nothing good will come of this injustice to the police officer. The Negroes will expolit this stupid woke weakness as much as they can to get money and not be held accountable for their crimes. These pathetic weak White Guilt pukes will fall all over themselves kissing Black ass.

Why don't you and your friends just grab your Trump flags, and storm the Minnesota prison and free Chauvin.

 

[struth]

What was I incorrect about in my post?

Chauvin wasn't charged with felony murder.

Minn Second Degree Murder Stat is their felony murder stat. Geez...I keep repeating myself here

 

[struth]

However the merger doctrine, does not allow assault to be that felony since it merges in with the murder....

I posted what felony murder is. It is not the same as murder (a felony).

An example: A convicted felon buys a gun from somebody who knows he's a felon, but sells it to him anyway (a predicate offense). The felon kills somebody with the gun.

The felon gets charged with murder (a felony). The guy who sold the gun, gets charged with felony murder.

I posted what it was...I agree it's not the same as simply murder...it's a type of murder.

Your example would not be felony murder. That's simply murder. And the seller can't be charged with felony murder, because there is no nexus between the murder and his illegal act. Time and space and a foreseeabilty has to be there.

You have once again, proven you have no clue what felony murder is.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

You Chauvin appologists andFloyddetractors proboblybelieve this shit too

Right-Wing Activists Attack Conviction of Derek Chauvin, Engage in Whataboutism | Right Wing Watch

Far-right operative Mike Cernovich pushed a narrative that the conviction would lead to police to strike and stop doing their jobs with a #BlueFlu hashtag—and it was somehow the fault of people opposed to the overuse of lethal force against Black people and other people of color. “Democrats have spoken – they do not want police to enforce the law,” he claimed on Twitter. “Police will stop doing their jobs. Get out of the cities. Live in a deep red area where you’re allowed to have lawful concealed carry,” he said in another tweet.

QAnon Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, R-Ga., never one to pass up an opportunity to fearmonger about Black Lives Matter, claimed on Twitter, “BLM has now proven itself to be the most powerful domestic terrorists organization in our country.” Greene seems especially fixated on Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., a Black woman who told a reporter that if Chavin was acquitted, protesters would need to become more confrontational. She closed her tweet with this line: “After Maxine Waters threats could there have been any other verdict?”

 

[basquebromance]

 

[Slade3200]

I am not sure where you quote suggest that Felony Murder is only about charging co-conspiritors...it's not.

Then you ignored the example

Your citation:

Initially it was strictly applied, encompassing any death that occurred during the course of a felony, regardless of who caused it. Therefore, if a police officer attempting to stop a Robbery accidentally shot and killed an innocent passerby, the robber could be charged with murder.

Yep...co-conspiritors to the robbery could be charged with the felony murder as well.

I again fail to see how your quote proves your point or disproves mine? I never suggested a co-conspirator couldn't be charged. Some states however have put some limits, on that though.

But that's why off the mark of what we are talking about...we were discussing how assault couldn't be the felony used for felony murder, and that would merge, via the merger doctrine.

Chauvin was not charged with felony murder.

Felony murder came about as a solution to the "prisoners dilemma".

Imagine a gang assault where one gang member commits murder, but the only witnesses are the other gang members. If they all refuse to identify who did the killing, nobody gets charged with murder.

But under the felony murder statute, they don't need to know which gang member pulled the trigger, as they can all be charged with the murder.

Do you get it now?

Minn State for 2nd Degree, is their felony murder law. I provided the link.

I know what felony murder is, I just showed you over and over again what it was.

Under your hypo they wouldn't be charged with felony murder unless they were engaged in a different felony...like robbery. If it was just a murder, they could be charged with conspiracy to murder, or principals, but not felony murder unless they were engaged in a felony that didn't merge.

In Minn, under the Second Degree murder stat, if it was a drive by they could be charged however with 2nd degree murder.

Sec. 609.19 MN Statutes

Yes keep reading dude... This has been pointed out. Go to section 2 part 2

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:


(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

I did...the officer to my knowledge wasn't subject to a protective or restraining order against George. Do you have something to show us differently?

I’m not claiming that Floyd had a restraining order nor am I claiming that he needed to have one against the cop for the charge to apply. 2nd degree murder clearly can be applied to more cases than just victims of drive by shootings and those who have restraining orders against their offenders. The judge laid it out pretty clearly. If the Cop is believed to have intended to hurt Floyd outside what he was permitted to do within his job then that is assault and if that assault contributed to Floyd’s death then he is guilty of 2nd degree murder.

 

[Slade3200]

Inciting violence?! WTF? How?