Moonglow
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How was the US going to stand up to Stalin? He had a hand in defeating the Nazi war machine, something no other nation was able to do..
FDR- a disgrace at Yalta
- Thread starter Polishprince
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Moonglow
Diamond Member
Ever hear of the Native American Indians?
Moonglow
Diamond Member
It seemed to work when Capitalism was flat on it's back.
Polishprince
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Just because Stalin was helping America defeat the German National Socialists doesn't mean he had clean hands at all. Why shouldn't he have been called out to do the right thing, have free elections, democracy and capitalism?
Moonglow
Diamond Member
Because the US was a nation that was playing isolationism and we didn't want to get involved after the US failed to reassert the Tsar when we invaded Russia in 1918.
Unkotare
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I already told you that everything you said was inaccurate.
there4eyeM
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Americans supported the war against Japan because Japan attacked America. Germany declared war on America, so Americans certainly went along with responding in kind. How would Americans have been motivated to fight the U.S.S.R.? Our disgust at that totalitarianism is justified, but political realities are what they are, and were what they were. The nation was not going to accept unforeseeable years of continued war at the epoch of Yalta, certainly not after years of having been told the Russians were allies.
there4eyeM
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In a perfectly Machiavellian world, the U.S. would have dropped the bomb on Moscow, not Hiroshima. That would have settled everything by decapitating the monster. As far as being a horrible thing to do, it would not have been worse than what was done.
We can argue all day as to whether or not F.D.R. was a "Communist" or anything else. He was what he was and "realpolitik" was also what it was. Yalta was certainly mishandled, and the transition to Truman even more so. If anything, the U.S. succeeded militarily and technologically in that epoch beyond its means to comprehend. We would be hard pressed to name a person at the time who was truly up to the times and their challenges.
We can argue all day as to whether or not F.D.R. was a "Communist" or anything else. He was what he was and "realpolitik" was also what it was. Yalta was certainly mishandled, and the transition to Truman even more so. If anything, the U.S. succeeded militarily and technologically in that epoch beyond its means to comprehend. We would be hard pressed to name a person at the time who was truly up to the times and their challenges.
TNHarley
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Perfect!
TNHarley
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I never could understand the mindset of the statist.
Stupid views like this blow my mind.
Polishprince
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Roosevelt CAUSED WWII.
The way he did it was by defunding the US Military to fund his Raw Deal programs. Gen. MacArthur, then the superintendent of West Point, warned FDR about this.
And MacArthur was right, unfortunately.
Germany could see how pathetic the US Military had become, so Mr. Hitler didn't worry about pissing America off with his Holocaust Program. He would not have tried that kind of shit, if he knew America could stand up to him.
there4eyeM
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If you had been playing Stalin's cards, what could Roosevelt have done to make you do the things your post suggests?
Tom Paine 1949
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It is ridiculously easy to criticize after the fact — for cheap partisan or other reasons — “agreements” like those at Yalta. Those who condemn Roosevelt as being “a sellout” or even “a communist” are as childish as those who call Lincoln a totalitarian. Was Winston Churchill, who also signed the Yalta agreements, equally a “communist sellout”?
In fact both Churchill and Roosevelt not two months after Yalta were fully aware that Stalin was ignoring promises he made to them there, yet were in fact unable to do anything about this.
What was the real situation at the time of Yalta (early Feb. 1945)?
Realistically, what could or should have been done differently five months before the first successful atomic bomb test in New Mexico, and six months before the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan?
“By the time of the Yalta Conference, the armed forces of the Western Allies had liberated all of France and Belgium and were fighting on the Western border of Germany. In the east, Soviet forces were 65 km (40 mi) from Berlin, having already pushed back the Germans from Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria.”
“[Yalta] was ... preceded by a conference in Moscow in October 1944, not attended by President Roosevelt, in which Churchill and Stalin had spoken of European Western and Soviet spheres of influence.”
“Stalin demanded a Soviet sphere of political influence in Eastern and Central Europe as an essential aspect of the USSR's national security strategy. Stalin's position at the conference was one which he felt was so strong that he could dictate terms. According to U.S. delegation member and future Secretary of State James F. Byrnes, ‘it was not a question of what we would let the Russians do, but what we could get the Russians to do.’”
“At the time, the Soviet Army had occupied Poland completely and held much of Eastern Europe with a military power three times greater than Allied forces in the West.”
The main purpose of the Yalta “Big Three” Conference, at which not France or China or any other country had representatives, was to discuss the postwar reorganization of Germany and Europe. Other important issues — such as Russian participation in a planned invasion of Japan — were discussed extensively. It was not the place or time to “demand” reforms or overthrow of Stalin and the Communists. Idiots can always find quotes or even actions to use out of context to argue that not just Roosevelt but Churchill too was “naive” — but these men and such generals as Eisenhower were hardly naive about the reality of great power politics.
For example ...
“Because of Stalin's promises, Churchill believed that he would keep his word regarding Poland, remarking ‘Poor Neville Chamberlain believed he could trust Hitler. He was wrong. But I don't think I am wrong about Stalin.’”
“By March 21 [six weeks after the conference ended] Roosevelt's Ambassador to the USSR Averell Harriman cabled Roosevelt that ‘we must come clearly to realize that the Soviet program is the establishment of totalitarianism, ending personal liberty and democracy as we know it.’ Two days later, Roosevelt began to admit that his view of Stalin had been excessively optimistic and that ‘Averell is right.’”
en.m.wikipedia.org
In fact both Churchill and Roosevelt not two months after Yalta were fully aware that Stalin was ignoring promises he made to them there, yet were in fact unable to do anything about this.
What was the real situation at the time of Yalta (early Feb. 1945)?
Realistically, what could or should have been done differently five months before the first successful atomic bomb test in New Mexico, and six months before the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan?
“By the time of the Yalta Conference, the armed forces of the Western Allies had liberated all of France and Belgium and were fighting on the Western border of Germany. In the east, Soviet forces were 65 km (40 mi) from Berlin, having already pushed back the Germans from Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria.”
“[Yalta] was ... preceded by a conference in Moscow in October 1944, not attended by President Roosevelt, in which Churchill and Stalin had spoken of European Western and Soviet spheres of influence.”
“Stalin demanded a Soviet sphere of political influence in Eastern and Central Europe as an essential aspect of the USSR's national security strategy. Stalin's position at the conference was one which he felt was so strong that he could dictate terms. According to U.S. delegation member and future Secretary of State James F. Byrnes, ‘it was not a question of what we would let the Russians do, but what we could get the Russians to do.’”
“At the time, the Soviet Army had occupied Poland completely and held much of Eastern Europe with a military power three times greater than Allied forces in the West.”
The main purpose of the Yalta “Big Three” Conference, at which not France or China or any other country had representatives, was to discuss the postwar reorganization of Germany and Europe. Other important issues — such as Russian participation in a planned invasion of Japan — were discussed extensively. It was not the place or time to “demand” reforms or overthrow of Stalin and the Communists. Idiots can always find quotes or even actions to use out of context to argue that not just Roosevelt but Churchill too was “naive” — but these men and such generals as Eisenhower were hardly naive about the reality of great power politics.
For example ...
“Because of Stalin's promises, Churchill believed that he would keep his word regarding Poland, remarking ‘Poor Neville Chamberlain believed he could trust Hitler. He was wrong. But I don't think I am wrong about Stalin.’”
“By March 21 [six weeks after the conference ended] Roosevelt's Ambassador to the USSR Averell Harriman cabled Roosevelt that ‘we must come clearly to realize that the Soviet program is the establishment of totalitarianism, ending personal liberty and democracy as we know it.’ Two days later, Roosevelt began to admit that his view of Stalin had been excessively optimistic and that ‘Averell is right.’”
Yalta Conference - Wikipedia
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there4eyeM
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[/QUOTE]
How was the US going to stand up to Stalin? He had a hand in defeating the Nazi war machine, something no other nation was able to do..
[/QUOTE]
Just because Stalin was helping America defeat the German National Socialists doesn't mean he had clean hands at all. Why shouldn't he have been called out to do the right thing, have free elections, democracy and capitalism?
[/QUOTE]
Because the US was a nation that was playing isolationism and we didn't want to get involved after the US failed to reassert the Tsar when we invaded Russia in 1918.
[/QUOTE]
That is one way to state things. Another is that the people in America did not support major conflicts but tolerated interference in various places, including Central America as well as Russia, where we were opposing the forces there that had capitulated to our WWI enemies and were trying to destroy those who had wanted to continue in alliance with us.
How was the US going to stand up to Stalin? He had a hand in defeating the Nazi war machine, something no other nation was able to do..
[/QUOTE]
Just because Stalin was helping America defeat the German National Socialists doesn't mean he had clean hands at all. Why shouldn't he have been called out to do the right thing, have free elections, democracy and capitalism?
[/QUOTE]
Because the US was a nation that was playing isolationism and we didn't want to get involved after the US failed to reassert the Tsar when we invaded Russia in 1918.
[/QUOTE]
That is one way to state things. Another is that the people in America did not support major conflicts but tolerated interference in various places, including Central America as well as Russia, where we were opposing the forces there that had capitulated to our WWI enemies and were trying to destroy those who had wanted to continue in alliance with us.
gipper
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I suspect they’ve been brainwashed by the Lincoln Cult. To think a president who violated the constitution in numerous ways, imprisoned thousands who merely voiced opposition to his policies, forcibly closed newspapers across the North who spoke out against him, started a war merely to enrich his donors that resulted in 850k dead Americans and half the nation destroyed...is admired by Americans today, shows establishment propaganda WORKS.
Astrostar
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You can thank your lucky stars that Scumpty wasn't there, or you'd be speaking German now.Kissing up to Uncle Joe Stalin, instead of using this ideal opportunity to give the Soviet Dictator a lecture on Freedom and to denounce communism.
Roosevelt would die a few months later, he was on his last legs, and he still maintained true to the Communists, refusing to denounce the the murders of millions of Ukrainians that Stalin slaughtered.
This was FDR's opportunity, he utterly failed.
And because of this, he should be cancelled, his monument dumped in the drink.
Yalta Conference: Definition, Date & Outcome ‑ HISTORY
The Yalta Conference of 1945 was an historic meeting of three World War II allies: U.S. President Roosevelt, British Prime Minister Churchill and Soviet Premier Stalin.www.history.com
Unkotare
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LIE x 2
gipper
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Yeah you’re so dumb you think he started the war to end slavery. LOL.
Unkotare
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Your words reveal your character (or lack thereof).
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