Hello everyone.
Years ago. I discussed the subject about Mother Mary with a very nice Roman Catholic woman - and she was explaining The Catholic position about Mary.
We talked for a while and she brought up a verse about Mary - taken from the book of Luke. - She was saying that here in = Luke 2:41-51, when Yahoshua went to the temple at the age of 12, there is no mention of other children in his family.
But I tried to explain this very kind lady the fact that Yahoshua’s brothers and sisters may not have even been born yet and certainly not old enough to travel the really long distance that took days to travel - to attend the feast that lasted up to a full week in another city. This was at least 40 miles from Bethlehem and 100 miles from Galilee - Then, during the feast, Mary had to go searching for three or four whole days - searching - through the streets and crowds throughout Jerusalem in a panicked search to find Yahoshua. For three whole days,
Plus - - Even before she began the three or four-day search in Jerusalem - she had already left Jerusalem and had traveled a whole days journey to go back to her home that was anywhere from 40 - 100 miles away. AND was thinking Yahoshua had left with them and was among them but was with others in the big crowd of other distant family,. kinsfolk / other relatives and acquaintances
If Mary had actually brought along all of her little children to make this long journey to feast in Jerusalem and spent a week there and then left Jerusalem and went a days journey out / away from Jerusalem and suddenly - She and Joseph - TURNED BACK and went a days journey - back to Jerusalem - after finding that Yahoshua had been seen or found by all of her kinsfolk / other relatives and acquaintances - This was out just a single days journey from Jerusalem but a few days of traveling back to Galilee or Bethlehem where she lived,...
But - Jesus was not found..............
Here are the details of the story..
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Luk 2:44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.
:45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.
:46 And it came to pass, that after three days ( LOOKING ) they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions. ......... . :48 . . . and his mother said unto him, .............. thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
mary did not mention that everyone in the family was looking for Yahoshua - but that Her and Joseph were the ones who had been looking for Him.
By this time - why would Mary want to drag along all of Her younger aged little children back to Jerusalem - if she had she could simply leave with safely with Her other kinsfolk / other relatives - out away from Jerusalem. Why drag them all the way back to Jerusalem where they spent the next three whole days frantically looking for their missing child. ? -
searching for Yahoshua - who left His mother's side and wandered into the temple. Is there any wonder or question why a handful of the rest of her other little babies and children would not manage to make it to the temple. it would be next to impossible for this to happen - to somehow - especially after three days of looking, to bring all of Her little children and they all meet in the synagog and / or for to even mention them in the first thing that she says to her lost child.
Verse 48 His mother said unto him, .... thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
But after I explained all of this to my Catholic friend - I also - tried to explain that after, Yahoshua was fully grown here in - Mar 6: 2 - 4 - - it does mention that His sisters were present - with Him in the synagogue in Galilee or Bethlehem - where He and His family lived..
Here in - Mar 6: 2 - 4 . . . Yahoshua was an adult - teaching in the synagogue - Soon thereafter the people in the synagogue begin to list the family members of Yahoshua, saying - - :3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us ? And offended in him.
This verse is literally saying that His little sisters were reasonably embarrassed or uncomfortable for being called and openly mentioned in the synagogue as their brother completely caused every eye there to be directed at them..... And they, His sisters were " at that moment " being accused of being offended and displeased in Yahoshua - as the people in the temple attempted to dishonor, discredit and scandalize and make an offense - of His words, miracles and teachings, and entire ministry.
Also - If one was to pay close attention to what the people in the synagogue were saying, they clearly are not saying that Mary His mother and James, Joses, and Juda His brothers were there and present there in the synagogue that day. The people only accused - that His sisters ( Of all of His Family members ) were there and present that day and that they ( HIS SISTERS ) were “scandalize” and offended directly in or by Yahoshua. - The Greek word is “ IN “ = G1722 - ἐν - en / en - “ IN “ Meaning = (in place, time or state), “in by, etc.: - about, after, among, as, by (+ all means), for (. . . sake of), + (because) of, (-in - they were said to be offended in Him. - And after, Yahoshua was fully grown here in Mat_13:54 - 58 - - it does mention that His sisters were present - with Him in as He addressed the crowds. And again - Again this same exact thing happens in - Mat 13:55 as Yahoshua was teaching before the multitudes of people .
Mat 13:55 - is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?
Mat 13:57 And they ( His family ) were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, except in his own country, and in his “ own house.”
As I was reading further Mar 6:4 .... Yahoshua said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
Here Yahoshua was admitting to them that - IN - His own family, His own household, among His own relatives and Mother, Father and family - He was without any honor ( AS A PROPHETIC FIGURE OR A RELIGIOUS LEADER ) - If these sisters were His cousins - the Greek language had a word for “ COUSIN “ And - anytime a cousin was mentioned in The New Testament - they always used the word cousin.
G4773 - - suggenēs - soong-ghen-ace'
A close relative (by blood); cousin, kin.
These sisters were not cousins or kin to Yahoshua - they were said to be His sisters.
Please remember that Yahoshua’s family and Abraham’s Family were very polygamous people. In fact the normal and standard family in The Bible were polygamous families.
The Greek language, however, is very different - - there is a Greek word used for Cousin - - BUT - in Hebrew - there was no literal word meaning a cousin – because in a normal polygamy situation of Gods people it would be a polygamy setting - where a Cousin would also be a Brother or a Sister - also - the many, many numerous Uncles and Aunts stemming from a single man marrying many wives - would be very high.
A typical Biblical child whose father had 8 wives - could easily have more than 30 to 60 aunts and uncles.
Also - The “ LANGUAGE STRUCTURE “ of the entire Hebrew culture was spoken and written to support polygamy. in the way that described the Godly, moral, holy and clean family structure.. - Cousins and Nieces were also often Brother and Sister - As Abraham and Sarah were brother and sister and also cousins at the same time.
And – remember - Uncle and Aunt in-laws were very numerous in a polygamous family structure because the many wives of the man, were all many uncle and aunt in laws to the children. - The authors of The Old Testament simply wrote out the description - as we see here in these following verses.
Lev 25:49 his uncle's son .
Jer 32:8 mine uncle's.
Jer 32:9 my uncle's son.
Jer 32:12 mine uncle's son.
Lev 20:20 his uncle's wife.
Est 2:7 Esther, his uncle's daughter.
But, there was no other word in the Hebrew at that time to say “ Cousin “ therefore the word brother and sister would apply to a wide variety of family members, as they were very closely related by blood. - -But in The Greek Language as we see here in these following verse - the Greek language did include the word “ Cousin “ - to differentiate and make the distinction and difference between a “ BROTHER “ - a “ COUSIN “ and a friend or relative.
The Hebrew language did not include the words cousin and niece and the term brother could even be applied to any number of males - who were closely related in the polygamous family even if they were cousins. - Even if they were second cousins - The Grandfather in polygamous marriage created many brothers and sisters who were second and third generation and still called one another brother – with the same grandfather.
Also, If You read a little more of the actual words of The Bible, as it completes and explains that Yahoshua had brothers and sisters. –
We find that the Bible would have stated that Yahoshua was Mary’ s “ Only Begotten “ son. This phrase “ Only Begotten “ son is used through the Old and New Testament many times and it is very important when someone has an “ Only Begotten “ child, to make it very clear in the Bible history. - This term “ Only Begotten “ - Means --- = an only child “ Only Begotten “ - as The son of God or “ Only Begotten “ child of a man or woman as well. - Yahoshua is never called an “ Only Begotten “ son of Mary and the Bible clearly describes that Yahoshua had other Brothers and Sisters and that Mary THE MOTHER OF YAHOSHUA literally had sons and daughters
Not to ask that polygamy be something that is - of any point of mentioning - other than to show the language structure of the Bible. - was literal polygamy family from Genesis to Revelation. - - But - The “ First Born “ son of Mary in conjunction to the direct clause that a sexual encounter did happen between a man and woman - but there was a “ First Born “ son that prevented the sex and almost prevented the whole marriage. And until that “ First Born “ son was born - Mary did not have sex. Until this time passed… … … .. It is just saying that sex happened and took place and the sexual experiences did not happen until an event happened firstly. The Bible says that Joseph did have sex with Mary - But the sexual encounter was not UNTIL she had borne Her FIRST – born son.
Mat 1:25 And knew her not until she had brought forth her firstborn son:
This Greek word “ until “ is the word G4219 pote / pot'-eh
Until = - Means = At what point in time: - + how long or when. = Or AS SOON OR AS LATER AFTER A TIME OR POINT. - This same exact word is used again and again “ 148 “ times in The New Testament and it always ( ALWAYS ) is used in the context as we see here below in these two other examples.
Mat 2:13 Mary and Joseph were to flee into Egypt, and be thou there “ until “ I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 1:17 from David “ until “ the carrying away into Babylon ... and from the carrying away into Babylon “ until “ Christ are fourteen generations.
Such as here in - Mar 9:19 He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, “ how long “ shall I be with you? - It is the same “ HOW LONG “ - “ until “ time / word - . That tells of events of circumstances and UNTIL lets the reader know that something is on hold UNTIL a certain time or event is complete or carried out. The sexual event happened, The Bible conveys the sexual experience, saying that Joseph Knew Mary Sexually, BUT - NOT - “ UNTIL “ = “ how long “ - “ until “
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The most solid proof out of all other passages is found here in Joh_7:3 - His brothers said unto him, Depart from here, and go into Judaea so that your disciples also can see the works that You do. And verse 5 says that Yahoshua’ s very own brothers at / in HIS HOME WHERE HE LIVED did not even believe in him.
Here, His own brothers are telling Him to leave His home in Galilee, and to go into Judaea and show His miracles to His disciples / - The Bible continually makes a distinction The Disciples and Apostles and - blood brothers all in the same verses together - whenever / anytime they are mentioned in the same verse. The Bible leads one to understand that Yahoshua had brothers and sisters and that Mary had Children and that Mary did have a “ FIRST BORN “ son and did have sex not until after Her “ FIRST BORN “ was born. Anytime the word “ FIRST BORN “ was used - it always means that the “ FIRST BORN “ is first as there is a second or a third or more.
The NT Bible does have a Greek word for cousins and kinfolk and uses these words consistently and acuratly - around 40 times -kinfolk, cousins and relatives whenever but therse brothers would always be called Cousins or kinfolk of someone - if this was trhe case. but they were called brothers of Yahoshua.
The Bible continually makes a distinction The Disciples and Apostles and - blood brothers - in the same verses together ....
The Bible truly leads one to understand that Mary had a “ FIRST BORN “ son and that she did have sex with her husband and did not have sex until after the first born son was born. This is all what we really know for sure - and it calls mentions to the fact that Yahoshua had brothers and sisters. A first - born son is not an only son,. and not having sex until the birth of the first - born - is not saying that a virgin remains a virgin - but that there was a second son and after His birth there was sexual intercourse and a marriage did take place This is what The Bible leads one to believe.
