Zone1 Explaining Jesus to a Jew

[AsherN]

Oh right, because every translation is “wrong”? Our language cannot adequately convey the message from original Hebrew or Aramaic? And you know this how? Because you are a self appointed world class translator?

Translations are often an interpratation, more so when the translation translates word for word. Pop quiz, what is the translation of the Hebrew melacha?

 

[BreezeWood]

Translations are often an interpratation, more so when the translation translates word for word. Pop quiz, what is the translation of the Hebrew melacha?

you have no idea, if your religion written in a dead language requires translation it is your religion that is also dead and was not real when written.

- everyone is desperate to know yours and roends interpretive meaning for - mellacka.


why not try heavenly - sabbath ... your day off from work. is that a moses - commandment.

- could it be the garden - to be kept holy.

 

[hobelim]

Translations are often an interpratation, more so when the translation translates word for word. Pop quiz, what is the translation of the Hebrew melacha?

Why not a pop quiz that is more challenging?

In the vision of Ezekiel, the Ophanim are translated as being covered with many "eyes", ʿayn. But ʿayn also denotes colors, at least according to the Rambam. True? Its logical then to conclude that it is about one thing or another. Not both. So even knowing Hebrew you can only guess about what the prophet is describing unless you have seen it, with your own eyes.

The odds of being right by guessing in any language are 50/50. Right?

My question to you is, are the Ophanim covered with many eyes or many colors?

 

[irosie91]

Why not a pop quiz that is more challenging?

In the vision of Ezekiel, the Ophanim are translated as being covered with many "eyes", ʿayn. But ʿayn also denotes colors, at least according to the Rambam. True? Its logical then to conclude that it is either one thing or another. Not both. So even knowing Hebrew you can only guess what the prophet is describing unless you have seen it.

The odds of being right by guessing are 50/50. Right?

My question to you is, are the Ophanim covered with many eyes or many colors?

the products of omelette du mushroom/khat

 

[hobelim]

the products of omelette du mushroom/khat

You believe your entire religion is based on the words of a few dudes tripping their balls off?

Alrighty then. Thanks for sharing.

 

[rosends]

Why not a pop quiz that is more challenging?

In the vision of Ezekiel, the Ophanim are translated as being covered with many "eyes", ʿayn. But ʿayn also denotes colors, at least according to the Rambam. True? Its logical then to conclude that it is about one thing or another. Not both. So even knowing Hebrew you can only guess about what the prophet is describing unless you have seen it, with your own eyes.

The odds of being right by guessing are 50/50. Right?

My question to you is, are the Ophanim covered with many eyes or many colors?

To what verse do you refer. In 1:16, the word is k'ein, not k'ayin. Though the words share a non-vocalized spelling, but not exact meanings. ein (cf Lev 13:5) means appearance, clearly etymologically related to "vision" and "eye" but not the same word. I don't have the Rambam in front of me but please let me know what verse so I can go and check -- I didn't know he translates it as "color"; I thought he would connect it to color as "appearance of emerald."

 

[hobelim]

I don't have the Rambam in front of me but please let me know what verse so I can go and check -- I didn't know he translates it as "color"

He does. I don't have it in front of me either. I'll get back to you on this tomorrow.

 

[hobelim]

He does. I don't have it in front of me either. I'll get back to you on this tomorrow.

This is the best I can do for now: An excerpt rom the Guide for the Perplexed.

"The body of the Ofannim is described as being covered with eyes; it is possible that a body covered with real eyes is here meant, or a body with different colours [‘ayin denoting “eye”, but also “color” ]"

Angels

www.betemunah.org

What do you think the prophet saw?

An orb with an encircling radiance covered with many eyes or many colors?

 

[irosie91]

You believe your entire religion is based on the words of a few dudes tripping their balls off?

Alrighty then. Thanks for sharing.

I BELIEVE that EZEKIEL either described a dream or an Hypnagogic
hallucination or a very creative fantasy

 

[hobelim]

I BELIEVE that EZEKIEL either described a dream or an Hypnagogic
hallucination or a very creative fantasy

And you are not embarrassed saying that out loud? Wow.

Every prophet, even Moses, describes seeing something similar before they heard from God.

I think they all saw exactly what they reported while they were completely sober. Moses and Jesus too probably spent those forty days and forty nights wondering if they lost their minds

 

[irosie91]

And you are not embarrassed saying that out loud? Wow.

Every prophet, even Moses, describes seeing something similar before they heard from God.

I think they all saw exactly what they reported while they were completely sober. Moses and Jesus too probably spent those forty days and forty nights wondering if they lost their minds

anyone who remains awake for 40 days lapses into a TOXIC PSYCHOSIS

And you are not embarrassed saying that out loud? Wow.

Every prophet, even Moses, describes seeing something similar before they heard from God.

I think they all saw exactly what they reported while they were completely sober. Moses and Jesus too probably spent those forty days and forty nights wondering if they lost their minds

Dreams and Hallucinations and Delusions do not arise out of NOTHING---they are elaborated
in THE BRAIN using material already PRESENT THERE

 

[hobelim]

anyone who remains awake for 40 days lapses into a TOXIC PSYCHOSIS

"Staying awake" is not necessarily about never sleeping. In fact being tempted by 'the devil' for forty days and forty nights in the wilderness while living among 'the wild beasts' requires being awake. And Moses fasting wasn't about not eating food, it was about being fed by God.

Dreams and Hallucinations and Delusions do not arise out of NOTHING---they are elaborated
in THE BRAIN using material already PRESENT THERE

So you believe your entire religion is based on the ramblings of people either tripping or nuts?

Sheesh. That jelly bean academy really left its mark on you.

 

[rosends]

He does. I don't have it in front of me either. I'll get back to you on this tomorrow.

Thanks -- I found a discussion in the Guide to the Perplexed, book 3, par 3, but there he discusses "appearance". It is actually a weird bit -- he discusses the concept saying that the phrase might mean literal eyes or "בעל מראים רבים" "having many מראים". This word is from the r-a-h root which refers to vision; it is overtly NOT the tz-b-ayin root meaning "color". The Rambam uses the tz-b-ayin root often in his writing, but not here.

However

That word is translated in the English on Sefaria as "colors" but then it cites the same a-y-n word as used in Num 11:7 -- some translations have that as "color" but others just have "appearance." This makes this translation of the Rambam a victim of its own translation! It uses "color" because it references another translation that uses "color" in another verse, therefore, the Rambam must have meant "color." But if one were to start with a different translation of Numbers, one would say "the Rambam means appearance, just like the word in Numbers which means appearance."

 

[irosie91]

"Staying awake" is not necessarily about never sleeping. In fact being tempted by 'the devil' for forty days and forty nights in the wilderness while living among 'the wild beasts' requires being awake. And Moses fasting wasn't about not eating food, it was about being fed by God.



So you believe your entire religion is based on the ramblings of people either tripping or nuts?

Sheesh. That jelly bean academy really left its mark on you.

my religion is not "BASED" on the visions of Ezekiel. Jesus is supposed to have been FASTING
the entire 40 days out alone in the wilderness which IN ITSELF is enough to induce a
toxic delirium. I do not recall if Moses ate anything while on the Mountain or slept

 

[rosends]

my religion is not "BASED" on the visions of Ezekiel. Jesus is supposed to have been FASTING
the entire 40 days out alone in the wilderness which IN ITSELF is enough to induce a
toxic delirium. I do not recall if Moses ate anything while on the Mountain or slept

Dev 9:9 speaks of the food aspect

וָאֶתְנַפַּל לִפְנֵי ה' כָּרִאשֹׁנָה אַרְבָּעִים יוֹם וְאַרְבָּעִים לַיְלָה לֶחֶם לֹא אָכַלְתִּי וּמַיִם לֹא שָׁתִיתִי

 

[AsherN]

I BELIEVE that EZEKIEL either described a dream or an Hypnagogic
hallucination or a very creative fantasy

All of Ezekiel gives strong vibes that he knew where the 'shroom patch was.

 

[irosie91]

Dev 9:9 speaks of the food aspect

וָאֶתְנַפַּל לִפְנֵי ה' כָּרִאשֹׁנָה אַרְבָּעִים יוֹם וְאַרְבָּעִים לַיְלָה לֶחֶם לֹא אָכַלְתִּי וּמַיִם לֹא שָׁתִיתִי

oh gee-----HOW HORRIBLE----not even a leaf of Khat?---just for a chew?

 

[theHawk]

I BELIEVE that EZEKIEL either described a dream or an Hypnagogic
hallucination or a very creative fantasy

^^ Once again irosie wants to write off a prophet’s visions and writings. Because you have that authority?

His visions were not that different than other prophets.
He saw that Israel continued to disobey God and their covenant. They worshipped idols, and God left the temple. He foresaw the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, then it became true.

He is then shown visions of hope, that a new Davidic king will come.

He also was shown visions of the end times, when Gog and Magog (the nations of the world) would persecute God’s people. But they would be defeated.

Then there will be a new creation.

 

[BreezeWood]

His visions were not that different than other prophets.

and 2000 years latter those are who are spoken of long since past than all those that came afterwards referring to the same desert bibles as though a single one has proven any more redeeming than those already mentioned.

their languages and religions together being long since deceased by the weight of their indifference to the evolution that has occurred for humanities well being despite their deliberate intrusions and fallacies to do otherwis. truth be told.

 

[irosie91]

^^ Once again irosie wants to write off a prophet’s visions and writings. Because you have that authority?

His visions were not that different than other prophets.
He saw that Israel continued to disobey God and their covenant. They worshipped idols, and God left the temple. He foresaw the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, then it became true.

He is then shown visions of hope, that a new Davidic king will come.

He also was shown visions of the end times, when Gog and Magog (the nations of the world) would persecute God’s people. But they would be defeated.

Then there will be a new creation.

wrong again-----visions and dreams are not "NOTHING" ----they are the workings of
a BRAIN. The interpretation of dreams and hallucinations is a window into the workings
of a brain-----but they do not constitute a MAGICAL CRYSTAL BALL. The writings of
Ezekiel are sublime but far and away ABOVE your standard jelly bean head