Evangelicals and Trump

beautress

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Trump has shown some amazing things about religion in America and particularly Evangelicals when it comes to political power. You would think Trump Christ-like. But I fail to remember Christ being in favor of caging children or breaking up families. Did I miss that? Two pieces below help, it isn't about being religious, is it? What then of religion? Has it lost its holiness, its goodness.

'How the evangelical movement became Trump's "bitch" — and yes, I know what that word signifies'

'As an evangelical myself, I can see how far the movement has sunk — even to betraying its own ideal of masculinity'



"His most notable advice for interacting with half the human population is "grab 'em by the pussy". Who could have predicted such an alliance?"

Climate too. Why not pray away hurricanes floods and fires, poverty too while they are at it. Interesting how the mixture of politics and religion accomplishes so little good.

'Faith and politics mix to drive evangelical Christians’ climate change denial'


'Climate science denial may stem more from politics than religion'

'Social scientist Dan Kahan rejects the idea of an automatic link between religiosity and any anti-science bias. He argues that religiosity only incidentally tracks science denial because some scientific findings have become “culturally antagonistic” to some identity groups.'


"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." Matthew 6:24
I disagree with your version of God and money because of Christ's parable of the widow's mite being greater than conspicuous consumers giving millions they can spare without giving up a most cushy life.

Also, the only difference between a Christian and a non-believer is that the believer in Christ is forgiven. It's that simple. Yes, believers make terrible errors in judgment, but when they take their regrets to God in their prescribed closet of prayer, the world does not understand unless they are looking at the Kingdom's goal of reconciliation.

Everything I said has a scriptural foundation in words spoken by our Lord Jesus.

Throughout the Old and new testaments, the people who loved God the most came from not only humble beginnings, but when they fought it out with their own errors and sins, they received high praises from God and man.

The reason Trump wins so much is because he set all his wealth on the back burner, works for no fee, and does the right thing against a party that would inflict atheism on the American founders who, while ever so human, asked for the good Lord's help at Valley Forge, in every colony, and often picked themselves up, dusted themselves off, and reprayed for God's help with sincerity and humility expressed frequently as the Lord's prayer that requires to forgive each other as we would like to be forgiven, ie to forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. Ouch! If I do say so.
 

BreezeWood

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The Declaration of Independence says openly "rights endowed by our creator". Th
was Jesus Christ our creator.

We are talking about the specific “founded as a Christian Nation” lie.

why post evidence that has no connection?

Do you still not understand what we are talking about here.
Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G-d.

So.... I guess we agree to disagree? Because there is no logical answer, to something that sounds illogical. I can't even identify with your thought pattern when people say "We are endowed by our creator" as the basis for independence, and yet say obviously our creator is....... what? The tooth fairy?

What do you think they had in mind, when the smallest number of people were full deists, and most believed in Christianity, and Adams directly says the basis for the country was Christian core principals?
.
Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G
.
the written document is secular with appeasement for religion without specific references and uses generic creator as the example - you ignore.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...

your religion is excluded from the constitution - not your choice of what if any religion you chose to attach yourself to.
.

What do you think they had in mind, when the smallest number of people were full deists, and most believed in Christianity, and Adams directly says the basis for the country was Christian core principals?
.
the document as written is not what any of the politicians may have been "saying" ...


The Preamble was created at the Constitutional Convention in the summer of 1787. It was probably written by Governeur Morris, who drafted much of the rest of the Constitution.
At the convention he gave more speeches than any other delegate, a total of 173. As a matter of principle, he often vigorously defended the right of anyone to practice his chosen religion without interference, and he argued to include such language in the Constitution.[13]
Gouverneur Morris - Wikipedia

the written language of the document - is the law. the document - all that matters is everything but an endorsement of any particular religion - and was then and is now a cornerstone of this countries enduring heritage, religious freedom. - - >

- freedom from 4th century christianity recognized at that time and presently as a politically motivated document disguised as a religion without any verifiable evidence for any of its conclusions.
 

NotfooledbyW

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#943 reply to #921
But I just posted clear undeniable truth, straight from the words of one of the founding fathers, that said their basis for designing this country, was Christian belief
I don’t see anywhere in any of your citations of John Adams revealing him saying that the basis for designing America was Christian belief.

Why are you reconstructing what the Second President actually wrote?
 
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Correll

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Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G
.
the written document is secular with appeasement for religion without specific references and uses generic creator as the example - you ignore.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...

your religion is excluded from the constitution - not your choice of what if any religion you chose to attach yourself to.
.
....


An established church is a very specific institution.

A ban on that,, does NOTHING to counter Andy's point about Christian principles being the basis for our country.


That you would claim it does, is you being either incredibly stupid, or incredibly dishonest.


Which is it?
 

NotfooledbyW

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#945 reply to #935
He is ginning up an argument, so that he has an excuse to attack Christians.
Actually it’s not an argument that ANDY is fabricating a lie about what John Adams wrote:

Post #921
But I just posted clear undeniable truth, straight from the words of one of the founding fathers, that said their basis for designing this country, was Christian belief
Here is what JA wrote:

“And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.”


Andy distorts/revises that to a Christian slant by saying the founding fathers, said “their basis for designing this country, was Christian belief.”

Adams did not say Christian Belief.

and Adams was not referring to founding the nation

he was clearly referring to the Uniting of “all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.””

He was referring to the young men who fought the Revolution and won.
 

Correll

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#945 reply to #935
He is ginning up an argument, so that he has an excuse to attack Christians.
Actually it’s not an argument that ANDY is fabricating a lie about what John Adams wrote:

Post #
But I just posted clear undeniable truth, straight from the words of one of the founding fathers, that said their basis for designing this country, was Christian belief
Here is what JA wrote:

“And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.”


Andy distorts/revises that to a Christian slant by saying the founding fathers, said “their basis for designing this country, was Christian belief.”

Adams did not say Christian Belief.

and Adams was not referring to founding the nation

he was clearly referring to the Uniting of “all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.””

He was referring to the young men who fought the Revolution and won.

Sophists nonsense to gin up a pretend disagreement to justify your attacks.


Like I said.


What do you want TODAY, that US being a Christian Nation, would deny you?
 

NotfooledbyW

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Correll do you wish to join the discussion or just take pot shots from the peanut gallery?

Is this what you think John Adams is referring to when he wrote the phrase the general Principles of Christianity?

Post #918
As it relates to the topic at hand, I would say freedom, equality under the law, property rights, and so on.
Don’t Those principles fit better under Adam’s less religion related General Principles of English and American Liberty?

If so I’ll ask again,s what do you think John Adams is referring to when he wrote the phrase the general Principles of Christianity?
 

Correll

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Correll do you wish to join the discussion or just take pot shots from the peanut gallery?

Is this what you think John Adams is referring to when he wrote the phrase the general Principles of Christianity?

Post #918
As it relates to the topic at hand, I would say freedom, equality under the law, property rights, and so on.
Don’t Those principles fit better under Adam’s less religion related General Principles of English and American Liberty?

If so I’ll ask again,s what do you think John Adams is referring to when he wrote the phrase the general Principles of Christianity?

The details don't matter. YOu asked a general question and I gave a general answer.


My question to YOU, stands.


What do you want TODAY, that you can't have, if we are a Christian Nation?


Because I think that the answer is NOTHING. And that proves that this is about you wanting to attack and discriminate against people you don't like.
 

NotfooledbyW

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#949 reply to #946
Sophists nonsense to gin up a pretend disagreement to justify your attacks.
ITS A lie . ITS A Christian lying about what John Adams wrote in order to convert an 18th Century founding fathers into a 21st Century sin and salvation Christian.

Thats what it is and you cannot deny it.
 

Correll

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#949 reply to #946
Sophists nonsense to gin up a pretend disagreement to justify your attacks.
ITS A lie . ITS A Christian lying about what John Adams wrote in order to convert a 18th Century founding fathers into a 21st Century sin and salvation Christian.

Thats what it is and you cannot deny it.

What do you want TODAY, that you cannot have, if we are a Christian Nation?

I answered your question. NOw answer mine.
 

NotfooledbyW

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#951 reply to #948
What do you want TODAY, that you can't have, if we are a Christian Nation?
There is no “if” about it. Your own argument relies on generalizing Christianity to a meaningless impotent ceremonial FLaggy Wavvy term sought by less than one in five Americans who find it necessary to revise history, lie about the founding fathers intent, in order to attach their sectarian religious identity to an entire national identity. For what reason? you tell me.

What do you want TODAY, that you can't have, if we are the ‘freedom to worship’ and ‘freedom of conscience’ Nation that the founders actually created and embedded in our Constitution?

You are the Crusader here. I’m just posting the case that your crusade is based on lies like the one about John Adams that Andylusion just posted last night.
 

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Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G
.
the written document is secular with appeasement for religion without specific references and uses generic creator as the example - you ignore.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...

your religion is excluded from the constitution - not your choice of what if any religion you chose to attach yourself to.
.
....


An established church is a very specific institution.

A ban on that,, does NOTHING to counter Andy's point about Christian principles being the basis for our country.


That you would claim it does, is you being either incredibly stupid, or incredibly dishonest.


Which is it?
.
An established church is a very specific institution.

A ban on that,, does NOTHING to counter Andy's point about Christian principles being the basis for our country.
That you would claim it does, is you being either incredibly stupid, or incredibly dishonest.


Which is it?
.
that is why -
.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...
.
excludes christianity from the u s constitution - no principles apply to the secular document of any religious orientation.

this was never a 4th century christian nation, christian bible - at best the document reflects the events of the 1st century and liberation theology.


go confess your sins corel - dishonesty also is excluded from the u s constitution.
 

Andylusion

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#932 reply to # 930

Well first you have to be truthful about what you asked, and I answered.

You said, can an Atheist have some of the same values as a Christian. I said they can.
Not exactly Mr. Truthful.

In Post #916 I asked you about the core fundamentals of Christianity that John Adams was referring to? ... and I asked if an atheist can have the same core Christian principles as you..

Try putting in your own words what you think are the core fundamentals of Christianity that John Adams was referring to?

Can an atheist have the same core Christian principles as you.
You changed it to, “can an Atheist have some of the same values as a Christian.”

You did not actually answer my questions.

Post #927

But I just posted clear undeniable truth, straight from the words of one of the founding fathers, that said their basis for designing this country, was Christian belief
In Post #927 you went to Adams saying Christian Belief was the basis for designing the country..

So I thought you were saying atheists had the same beliefs as Christians when I wrote:

##930! reply to #927

And I believe you just told me that atheists and evangelical Christians believe the same things.
#932 reply to #927

Did I ever say you can be an atheist and a Christian? No. I did not.
As you can see I never said you did.

I am truthful.

Is this what you think John Adans is referring to when he wrote the phrase the general Principles of Christianity?

Post #918
As it relates to the topic at hand, I would say freedom, equality under the law, property rights, and so on.
Those principles fit better under Adam’s non-religion related general Principles of English and American Liberty,

Post #886
So let's start with John Adams, since you started there.

Because in his own words, the founding principals were Christianity, and he believed in those Christian Principles.
And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all those Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities Sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.
Again, I think core fundamentals of Christianity, and core values of Christianity, are the same thing.

Now if you meant ALL the core fundamentals, then I understand the answer is no. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is one of those core fundamentals of Christianity as well, and naturally Atheists have no such belief.

But the way I read your question, was can an Atheist have the same core fundamentals as Christianity, and to me the answer is yes. You can value freedom for example, which is a core value of Christianity. Jesus specifically never went around trying to force anyone to do anything. He warned people that actions of consequences, and encouraged people to come to G-d, but he never pulled out swords, and demanded submission.

Can an Atheist have as a core belief, a fundamental of Christianity? The answer is yes.

Those principles fit better under Adam’s non-religion related general Principles of English and American Liberty

Then why didn't John Adams say that, when he was replying to what the core principals that defined the nation were?
 

NotfooledbyW

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The details don't matter.
To you for sure. In your case I see scarce evidence that truth itself matters. Another word for that is Trumpism. LIES TRUMP TRUTH. Want to buy a bumper sticker?
 

NotfooledbyW

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#955 reply to #953
Now if you meant ALL the core fundamentals, then I understand the answer is no. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is one of those core fundamentals of Christianity as well, and naturally Atheists have no such belief.
I’ll admit fault for not being clear. My Question is related to what John Adams wrote that you brought to the table.

He referred to two distinct “principles received from the ancestors of the young men of the colonies who fought and won the war for independence and for an experiment in Government of the people by the people and for the people.

Adams cited two areas that united the young men. They were: “the general principles of Christianity …And .....“the general principles of English and American liberty”.

What did he mean by “the general principles of Christianity” that united young soldiers whether Christian or atheist?

One historian suggests Adams had in mind the common system of morals held by all humankind throughout history.

I see nothing from this exchange with Jefferson that in any way suggests that Adams was applying a unique status as “Christian founding principles” coming from the over-riding religious ‘belief’ doctrines such as original sin and salvation and the divinity of Jesus Christ. Because as you say, atheists do not share those with believers.

Do you agree with me on that?
 
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NotfooledbyW

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956# reply to #953
Those principles fit better under Adam’s non-religion related general Principles of English and American Liberty

Then why didn't John Adams say that, when he was replying to what the core principals that defined the nation were?

First of all you are mistaken on your reading of Adam’s words. He was not referring to principles that defined the nation. He was referring to principles that united the young
mem who fought the war.

he says both explicitly right here:
. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence.​

Do you agree he said both?

As for your freedoms and liberty being a Christian principle I’ll let Adams have the last say on that:
Over time, John Adams became increasingly intolerant of many Christian denominations and religious dogmas. ... Every Species of these Christians would persecute Deists, as soon as either Sect would persecute another, if it had unchecked and unballanced Power.

lehrmaninstitute.org › history › the-...
The Founders' Tolerance - George Washington, John Adams, George Mason ...
 

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Andylusion

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The Declaration of Independence says openly "rights endowed by our creator". Th
was Jesus Christ our creator.

We are talking about the specific “founded as a Christian Nation” lie.

why post evidence that has no connection?

Do you still not understand what we are talking about here.
Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G-d.

So.... I guess we agree to disagree? Because there is no logical answer, to something that sounds illogical. I can't even identify with your thought pattern when people say "We are endowed by our creator" as the basis for independence, and yet say obviously our creator is....... what? The tooth fairy?

What do you think they had in mind, when the smallest number of people were full deists, and most believed in Christianity, and Adams directly says the basis for the country was Christian core principals?
.
Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G
.
the written document is secular with appeasement for religion without specific references and uses generic creator as the example - you ignore.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...

your religion is excluded from the constitution - not your choice of what if any religion you chose to attach yourself to.
.

What do you think they had in mind, when the smallest number of people were full deists, and most believed in Christianity, and Adams directly says the basis for the country was Christian core principals?
.
the document as written is not what any of the politicians may have been "saying" ...


The Preamble was created at the Constitutional Convention in the summer of 1787. It was probably written by Governeur Morris, who drafted much of the rest of the Constitution.
At the convention he gave more speeches than any other delegate, a total of 173. As a matter of principle, he often vigorously defended the right of anyone to practice his chosen religion without interference, and he argued to include such language in the Constitution.[13]
Gouverneur Morris - Wikipedia

the written language of the document - is the law. the document - all that matters is everything but an endorsement of any particular religion - and was then and is now a cornerstone of this countries enduring heritage, religious freedom. - - >

- freedom from 4th century christianity recognized at that time and presently as a politically motivated document disguised as a religion without any verifiable evidence for any of its conclusions.
I'm not sure what point you think you are making here. Nothing you said, contradicted anything I said.

In fact, I would agree with all the evidence you cited, just not your conclusion. There is no "freedom from religion" in the constitution, nor did anyone ever make such a statement.

So I'm not sure what point you think you made.
 

Andylusion

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Those principles fit better under Adam’s non-religion related general Principles of English and American Liberty

Then why didn't John Adams say that, when he was replying to what the core principals that defined the nation were?

First of all you are mistaken on your reading of Adam’s words. He was not referring to principles that defined the nation. He was referring to principles that united the young
mem who fought the war.

he says both explicitly right here:
. And what were these general principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in which all those sects were united, and the general principles of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united, and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her independence.​

Do you agree he said both?

As for your freedoms and liberty being a Christian principle I’ll let Adams have the last say on that:
Over time, John Adams became increasingly intolerant of many Christian denominations and religious dogmas. ... Every Species of these Christians would persecute Deists, as soon as either Sect would persecute another, if it had unchecked and unballanced Power.

lehrmaninstitute.org › history › the-...
The Founders' Tolerance - George Washington, John Adams, George Mason ...
I like reading the links you post.

John Adams, "said that he was no bigot, and could hear a Prayer from any gentleman of Piety and virtue, who was at the same time a friend to his country."

While your link says "John Adams became increasingly intolerant of many Christian denominations", it doesn't say how.

Which indicates whoever wrote this, doesn't understand the meaning of tolerance.

"the ability or willingness to tolerate something, in particular the existence of opinions or behavior that one does not necessarily agree with."

Of course John Adams had disagreements with some religious sects. Of course. In fact if you don't disagree with something, it means you simply are a non-thinking person.

But as far tolerating them, can you show me where he used the power of government to shut down religious services he was 'intolerant' of? No you can not. At least it hasn't been in any of the history books I've read.
 

Andylusion

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#955 reply to #953
Now if you meant ALL the core fundamentals, then I understand the answer is no. Obviously faith in Jesus Christ is one of those core fundamentals of Christianity as well, and naturally Atheists have no such belief.
I’ll admit fault for not being clear. My Question is related to what John Adams wrote that you brought to the table.

He referred to two distinct “principles received from the ancestors of the young men of the colonies who fought and won the war for independence and for an experiment in Government of the people by the people and for the people.

Adams cited two areas that united the young men. They were: “the general principles of Christianity …And .....“the general principles of English and American liberty”.

What did he mean by “the general principles of Christianity” that united young soldiers whether Christian or atheist?

One historian suggests Adams had in mind the common system of morals held by all humankind throughout history.

I see nothing from this exchange with Jefferson that in any way suggests that Adams was applying a unique status as “Christian founding principles” coming from the over-riding religious ‘belief’ doctrines such as original sin and salvation and the divinity of Jesus Christ. Because as you say, atheists do not share those with believers.

Do you agree with me on that?
No I think he was specifically referring to Christian Values, because he specifically referred to Christian values. Again, there are many values in Christianity. It's not simply just original sin, salvation, and divinity of Jesus Christ.

Original sin does not apply to a "nation". Nations can not commit sin. Individuals that make up a nation commit sin. A nation can't gain salvation. Individuals gain salvation.

So it would be largely pointless and irrelevant to conclude that any of those aspects of Christianity would be written as a law somehow.

However, the basis of freedom, property rights, and free thought, and so on, were all based in Christian thought. And Adams made that clear.

Honestly, I really don't understand what counter argument you are trying to make. Can you clarify a bit more?

Because as best I understand it, every single one of the founding fathers, was heavily influenced by Christian doctrine and teaching. Every single one of them. Again, you can split all the hairs you want about did they believe X specific doctrine, or Y specific doctrine, but the fact remains that regardless they all were influenced by Christianity. There is no way to get around that.

In fact the most strident, and extreme Deist in the entire group was Thomas Jefferson. Yet even Thomas Jefferson believed in G-d, believed that Jesus was a good moral teachers, and he even made his own edited copy of the Bible.

So he may not have been a Sunday Morning Bible Church goer, but you can't deny that his ideas and values were most certainly influenced by Christian thought, and that fed into the creation of this country.
 

BreezeWood

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The Declaration of Independence says openly "rights endowed by our creator". Th
was Jesus Christ our creator.

We are talking about the specific “founded as a Christian Nation” lie.

why post evidence that has no connection?

Do you still not understand what we are talking about here.
Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G-d.

So.... I guess we agree to disagree? Because there is no logical answer, to something that sounds illogical. I can't even identify with your thought pattern when people say "We are endowed by our creator" as the basis for independence, and yet say obviously our creator is....... what? The tooth fairy?

What do you think they had in mind, when the smallest number of people were full deists, and most believed in Christianity, and Adams directly says the basis for the country was Christian core principals?
.
Well I don't know what to say to that, because when the entire basis for forming a new country was that we have rights endowed by our creator, which everyone admits was the Christian G-d.... to me that means our founding core basis for creating this country was the Christian G
.
the written document is secular with appeasement for religion without specific references and uses generic creator as the example - you ignore.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...

your religion is excluded from the constitution - not your choice of what if any religion you chose to attach yourself to.
.

What do you think they had in mind, when the smallest number of people were full deists, and most believed in Christianity, and Adams directly says the basis for the country was Christian core principals?
.
the document as written is not what any of the politicians may have been "saying" ...


The Preamble was created at the Constitutional Convention in the summer of 1787. It was probably written by Governeur Morris, who drafted much of the rest of the Constitution.
At the convention he gave more speeches than any other delegate, a total of 173. As a matter of principle, he often vigorously defended the right of anyone to practice his chosen religion without interference, and he argued to include such language in the Constitution.[13]
Gouverneur Morris - Wikipedia

the written language of the document - is the law. the document - all that matters is everything but an endorsement of any particular religion - and was then and is now a cornerstone of this countries enduring heritage, religious freedom. - - >

- freedom from 4th century christianity recognized at that time and presently as a politically motivated document disguised as a religion without any verifiable evidence for any of its conclusions.
I'm not sure what point you think you are making here. Nothing you said, contradicted anything I said.

In fact, I would agree with all the evidence you cited, just not your conclusion. There is no "freedom from religion" in the constitution, nor did anyone ever make such a statement.

So I'm not sure what point you think you made.
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There is no "freedom from religion" in the constitution, nor did anyone ever make such a statement.
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that was morris - the author of the amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion ...
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freedom from religion is the very point of the exclusionary clause - the first line of the bill of rights -
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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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the second phrase - "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" - is a statement to allow religion if so desired.

morris deliberately left christianity to its own demise as over time that clearly has been the outcome for those that pretend they were ever in charge of the intent they today simply refuse to comprehend, their exclusion, when confronted with its reality and the clever penmanship of its author.
 

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