Debate Now ETUFO's

[RWS]

Have there been visitors from other planets buzzing the Earth throughout history?

Or is it a cultural phenomenon that started in the modern age and fed by cold-war hysteria?

First, the term "UFO" going forward will mean spacecraft piloted or controlled by extra-terrestrials, so I don't have to type "ETUFO" every time. The term "unknown flying object" can be anything. So "UFO" means an alien spacecraft in this discussion going forward.

Second, ridicule is not a means to dismiss this argument. I will use only high-level modern day witnesses, historical witnesses, and logic in my arguments.

I look forward to an intelligent discussion.

So since I'm in Phoenix now, I'll start with the Phoenix Lights in 1997.

#1: The Phoenix Lights
Thousands of people reported a very large V-shaped UFO that was witnessed across the state. Soon thereafter, the local Air Force base dropped a series of flares to confuse the public, and they are what most people see in the well-known circular-light videos. However, those flares were not what was reported by the eyewitnesses, including the then-Governor, Fife Symington, who has testified to what he saw. At first, he used ridicule to dismiss it to avoid public panic. But he has since been very straight-forward as to what he saw and why he ridiculed it, and is a staunch UFO-advocate.

Many other people also collaborate the huge V-shaped craft that hovered and also flew very rapidly across the state north-to-south. And it was seen in Phoenix around 8:30pm. The Air Force response was that they dropped flares as a routine exercise around Phoenix at around 10:00pm and claim that is what the eyewitnesses saw.


So, to me, it is either a UFO (meaning aliens), or a very secret government vehicle that they don't want people to know about and has never been used since.

But if they didn't want people to know about it, why did they fly it across the state and over the 6th largest city in the country, unbeknownst and to the dismay to government officials, and then cover it up by dropping flares over Phoenix? They could have easily avoided such speculation by taking a less visible route, and also not risk a malfunction over a heavily populated city by flying over non-populated areas.


So the evidence, and the government response to it, points to a technology that was not in our control and had to be covered-up to avoid public scrutiny. So if not ours, whose?

 

[waltky]

How do ya think the Atacama desert figures were made?

That to me is the best evidence of ET visitation...

... not from another planet, but from another dimension.

 

[playtime]

saw one myself years ago, along with parking lot full of cars at the drive in. i was with hubby on a date then, & the thing flew over right over us, & we could see it thru the windshield. it stopped in the distance, hovered- went up-down & sideways before flying off & way to fast to be a copter & it was quiet... everybody was honking their horns... it was really strange. it was not a normal aircraft.

 

[IsaacNewton]

There is no evidence of it.

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

Unresolved Events Injuries (UEIs) and Reports of an Undetermined Nature (RUNs) bring out the imagination in many. They are, by their vary nature, unknown. And as objective as one can be, the human mind can see the impossible. (We have all seen the optical illusions.) Our minds can play some pretty neat tricks on us. Some of us can be convinced that there is something spooky out there --- either because one of our senses is misinterpreting something or the situation causes us to make false prediction (the monster under the bed or in the closet). I can remember being afraid many times in Vietnam, but on one occasion, so very afraid that I almost killed someone; turning out to be only a shadow. But all sorts of things were running through my mind.

Even scientist that look at empirical evidence (acquired by means of the observation and experimentation) can differ on the meaning of the observable facts. For instance, scientists claim they have discovered galaxies which appear to have more mass than their observable light suggested; hence the notion of dark matter. I've have watched a number of these Scientific Documentaries that suggest that somewhere between the 75% to 84% of the total matter in the universe is this "dark matter." That means that of ALL the matter you can sense directly in front of you, there is three-times more matter there that you cannot. That doesn't even smell right to me. The simplest explanation is usually the right one; that being the scientist are missing key piece of information.

UFO's and the unexplained observations like the Phoenix Lights, are events in which there are an answers; for which we just don't understand what it is!

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RWS]

How do ya think the Atacama desert figures were made?

That to me is the best evidence of ET visitation...

... not from another planet, but from another dimension.

Very possibly! They are similar to the "Nazca Lines" and took great effort and planning, and/or ET intervention, to get it done.

These geoglyphs in South America are very interesting phenomena, and add to the possibility of ancient aliens. Not necessarily in making them, but "why" they made them.

They made them to show their "gods" they were there. And who were their "gods"? Beings from the sky!

Just like the Sumerian records of the Anunnaki in 4000BC. "Those who from heaven to earth came".

There is no doubt about that.

 

[RWS]

saw one myself years ago, along with parking lot full of cars at the drive in. i was with hubby on a date then, & the thing flew over right over us, & we could see it thru the windshield. it stopped in the distance, hovered- went up-down & sideways before flying off & way to fast to be a copter & it was quiet... everybody was honking their horns... it was really strange. it was not a normal aircraft.

That's awesome! I would almost kill to see that!

Please tell me, did it have a shape that you can recall? Did it have any noise you could detect?

 

[RWS]

There is no evidence of it.

No evidence of what?

There is no evidence of gravitational waves, yet we are actively seeking them based on what makes sense.

Humans have been telling us that extra-terrestrial beings have been visiting us, and shaping our society, since about 200,000BC, and started recording it in a written language around 4000BC.

Here we are at 2016AD, with most of society still worshiping "santa claus" religions based on those aliens, and science telling us that "alien visitations are impossible".

There is a ton of evidence that aliens have been visiting us for at least the last 6000 years (that I'm willing to argue about).

 

[RWS]

et al,

Unresolved Events Injuries (UEIs) and Reports of an Undetermined Nature (RUNs) bring out the imagination in many. They are, by their vary nature, unknown. And as objective as one can be, the human mind can see the impossible. (We have all seen the optical illusions.) Our minds can play some pretty neat tricks on us. Some of us can be convinced that there is something spooky out there --- either because one of our senses is misinterpreting something or the situation causes us to make false prediction (the monster under the bed or in the closet). I can remember being afraid many times in Vietnam, but on one occasion, so very afraid that I almost killed someone; turning out to be only a shadow. But all sorts of things were running through my mind.

Even scientist that look at empirical evidence (acquired by means of the observation and experimentation) can differ on the meaning of the observable facts. For instance, scientists claim they have discovered galaxies which appear to have more mass than their observable light suggested; hence the notion of dark matter. I've have watched a number of these Scientific Documentaries that suggest that somewhere between the 75% to 84% of the total matter in the universe is this "dark matter." That means that of ALL the matter you can sense directly in front of you, there is three-times more matter there that you cannot. That doesn't even smell right to me. The simplest explanation is usually the right one; that being the scientist are missing key piece of information.

UFO's and the unexplained observations like the Phoenix Lights, are events in which there are an answers; for which we just don't understand what it is!

Most Respectfully,
R

I completely agree. I don't want to get started on my theories about dark matter in this thread, but thank you for bringing that up!! You're right... it doesn't "smell right"! There's key pieces of information that we are still missing, and trying to make theories in the meantime to explain stuff.

That's the way science works. What gets me is that they're willing to make the leap to accept this invisible matter that does not affect us at all, except for affecting their calculations in a way that makes it work. They allow an imaginary reality to fit what their math says. And that's good.

Well, ancient aliens make discrepancies in human evolution, development and history work perfectly, if allowed in an imaginary reality... If you can allow ancient aliens, then science and logic can explain a lot more about us than history books and religion can.

 

[RWS]

So my initial question really was, "why are aliens visiting the Earth impossible?"

I think it is highly probable, based on all the evidence and testimony throughout history.

For those who say it is impossible, I say that we will someday be visiting another planet. And it's safe to say we will eventually visit another planet in another solar system. And we're going to target a planet that supports "life as we know it". Meaning we're pre-destined to look for others that evolved in similar conditions. And when we do... and if those life-forms are intelligent but less developed than us, they'll claim we're "gods" too, as we slowly use them for the resources we need to continue our mission and survive, in the name of science.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Lets use some logic.

The distance between us and the next nearest system is light generations away. so that would require an absurdly long living creature that wouldn't go mad with boredom.

So a piloted craft is out

OUR satellites are so good they can be used to read the paper, so there's no need for a craft to come within our own eye sight.

There is nothing here that is not out there unless they are coming here to eat. And since no one has been eaten and no vast regions of crops destroyed....

 

[RWS]

OK, I'm going waaaay too far off-topic.

Let's get back to #1. So I can get here in a natural way.

The craft that was seen over Phoenix and the rest of Arizona was described as a triangular or V-shaped craft that blocked out the sky, hovered at times, and could take off at high rates of speed. It flew low over people's houses, so there's no mistake or mass-hallucination. It was estimated to be hundreds of feet long.

The Air Force responded by dropping two circular trails of flares later in the night over the mountains, and claiming that as the explanation for what eye-witnesses saw.

However, the then-Governor of AZ, has since come out publicly as saying he saw it fly and hover over him and take off at an incredible speed. And he was an ex-Air Force pilot.

 

[RWS]

Why is a piloted spacecraft ruled out? Because it doesn't fit our current scientific knowledge on how to travel vast distances? Travelling across the Atlantic Ocean was equally impossible at one point, as was travelling to the moon.

Who's to say we won't be able to do it in the future?

I don't think anybody believes that we won't be able to figure out vast-distance space travel given enough time to do so. And since our modern civilization is only a mere 6000 years old, and we have gone from the Wright Brothers to sending spacecraft outside our solar system in 120 years... Why would you hold another alien civilization to the limitations we have here on Earth?

They could be millions, if not billions, of years ahead of us. We are not the center of the universe. We are not the yardstick to use as comparison for the possibilities of the universe. Heck, they could be just 1000 years ahead of us technologically, and still be able to do it, based on our current rate of discovery.

 

[playtime]

saw one myself years ago, along with parking lot full of cars at the drive in. i was with hubby on a date then, & the thing flew over right over us, & we could see it thru the windshield. it stopped in the distance, hovered- went up-down & sideways before flying off & way to fast to be a copter & it was quiet... everybody was honking their horns... it was really strange. it was not a normal aircraft.

That's awesome! I would almost kill to see that!

Please tell me, did it have a shape that you can recall? Did it have any noise you could detect?

yep... it was cigar shaped, but had no propellers or 'wings' ( so it wasn't a copter) & had a single glowing red light on its belly. the red light was what I first noticed looking out from the windshield, then I was able to make out the shape ( it was dark at the drive in) it made NO noise, & at first it looked like it floated past us... & so many people started getting out of their cars or honking. but out past the screen, was when it started moving up & down & sideways & was doing it too fast to be a blimp- then it just 'zoomed' out of sight.

btw the way the movie was Rocky 4 (1985)

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There is no evidence of it.

 

[Two Thumbs]

So far I'm the only one that attempted debate, everyone else is pointing to things that are simply absurd.


giant V in sky

seen, but not on radar

so they had the tech to block radar but where to dumb to avoid being seen by people.

think about it.

 

[G.T.]

saw one myself years ago, along with parking lot full of cars at the drive in. i was with hubby on a date then, & the thing flew over right over us, & we could see it thru the windshield. it stopped in the distance, hovered- went up-down & sideways before flying off & way to fast to be a copter & it was quiet... everybody was honking their horns... it was really strange. it was not a normal aircraft.

i saw a similar thing in broad daylight with a friend playing basketball in his driveway

 

[IsaacNewton]

I guess we have to clarify.

There is no evidence put forth by a credible source. Conspiracy circles and groups are the opposite of a credible source.

 

[waltky]

Remember the Philadelphia Experiment?

I was curious about it and found the book about it...

... in the non-fiction section of the library.

What if they broke the dimension barrier?

 

[G.T.]

I guess we have to clarify.

There is no evidence put forth by a credible source. Conspiracy circles and groups are the opposite of a credible source.

I dont for a moment think what we saw was "alien," that should be nobody's 1st guess as we know outright that there exists "classified" operations in this Country and around the world.

My friend and I; though, not very crazy dudes. Not the Roswell visiting, tin foil wearing, sandey hook was fake, jfk theories type like some dopes from this board are(paulitician comes to mind).