Erasing History

[defcon4]

For people who can't read?

Read what? Revisionist history? That doesn't help much, does it?

 

[IcebergSlim]

For people who can't read?

Read what? Revisionist history? That doesn't help much, does it?

How much of "the real history" can you fit on a plinth?

 

[MaryL]

Come now. Geo. Washington actually had a commission in the English army, just like Benedict Arnold. Both fought for the brits. Washington was a Virginian, owned slaves, all that. Both were turncoats, Washington fought back. Against the crown and their taxes to offset the very war that preceded the revolution, ( the "French and Indian war".) The crown expected us colonials to pay for IT. Irony of irony. Plus, the brits were coming down hard against slavery. Good ol Virginians can't have THAT, bad for business. What a tangled web we weave, isn't it? I remember History, it lives on in books, in the memory of all of us folks, nobody is going to take that away.

 

[defcon4]

How much of "the real history" can you fit on a plinth?

I don't know about you but when I see a monument, a statue on the plinth, my interest, my curiosity compels me to look into the history of that monument. I understand your stance though. You know everything, every historical event, every historical figure and just glancing at monuments tells you the story behind them. I am not at that stage yet and there are no guarantees that future generations will posses the vast knowledge you own.

 

[Blackrook]

The biggest villain in my mind is King Henry VIII, not for all the people he killed, but for his wanton destruction of all signs of the Roman Catholic Church. Monasteries were looted and burned to the ground. Statues and stained glass windows were smashed, relics of the saints were destroyed.

Now the city council of New Orleans are doing the same to destroy the memory that Louisiana was a Confederate state, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[Blackrook]

The cathedrals were the greatest achievements of the middle ages. Most people did not know how to read, but all the Biblical stories were carved into the cathedral walls, or displayed on the stained glass windows. St. Francis invented the stations of the cross which are in every Catholic Church, they portray the entire Passion of Christ, from his trial before Pontius Pilate (Pilate is portrayed as washing his hands) to the carrying of the cross, falling three times, crucifixion, death, and the taking down the body of Christ and burying him.

 

[defcon4]

For people who can't read?

Read what? Revisionist history? That doesn't help much, does it?

How much of "the real history" can you fit on a plinth?

 

[Blackrook]

One of the five people who were killed in the Boston Massacre was black. I'll bet you didn't know that.

The Boston Massacre

There were black plantation owners who owned black slaves. I'll bet you didn't know that.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

There were blacks who fought for the Confederacy. I'll bet you didn't know that.

Yes, There Were Black Confederates. Here’s Why

 

[Blackrook]

The point is, the world is more complicated than people would like to think.

In American high school books, there are some stories that are not told, because they would oppose the narrative of the way we want kids to think about America.

 

[Wildman]

You really think the Civil War will just be forgotten?

what "Civil War" are you referring to?

 

[Blackrook]

Here's a war we don't talk about, ever. Most Americans know nothing about it because it is not taught in high schools. The entire war was shameful, and dirty, and there were no heroes.

http://www.infoplease.com/encyclopedia/history/king-philip-war.html

King Philip's War

King Philip's War, 1675–76, the most devastating war between the colonists and the Native Americans in New England. The war is named for King Philip, the son of Massasoit and chief of the Wampanoag. His Wampanoag name was Metacom, Metacomet, or Pometacom. Upon the death (1662) of his brother, Alexander (Wamsutta), whom the Native Americans suspected the English of murdering, Philip became sachem and maintained peace with the colonists for a number of years. Hostility eventually developed over the steady succession of land sales forced on the Native Americans by their growing dependence on English goods. Suspicious of Philip, the English colonists in 1671 questioned and fined him and demanded that the Wampanoag surrender their arms, which they did. In 1675 a Christian Native American who had been acting as an informer to the English was murdered, probably at Philip's instigation. Three Wampanoags were tried for the murder and executed. Incensed by this act, the Native Americans in June, 1675, made a sudden raid on the border settlement of Swansea. Other raids followed; towns were burned and many whites—men, women, and children—were slain. Unable to draw the Native Americans into a major battle, the colonists resorted to similar methods of warfare in retaliation and antagonized other tribes. The Wampanoag were joined by the Nipmuck and by the Narragansett (after the latter were attacked by the colonists), and soon all the New England colonies were involved in the war. Philip's cause began to decline after he made a long journey west in an unsuccessful attempt to secure aid from the Mohawk. In 1676 the Narragansett were completely defeated and their chief, Canonchet, was killed in April of that year; the Wampanoag and Nipmuck were gradually subdued. Philip's wife and son were captured, and he was killed (Aug., 1676) by a Native American in the service of Capt. Benjamin Church after his hiding place at Mt. Hope (Bristol, R.I.) was betrayed. His body was drawn and quartered and his head exposed on a pole in Plymouth. The war, which was extremely costly to the colonists in people and money, resulted in the virtual extermination of tribal Native American life in S New England and the disappearance of the fur trade. The New England Confederation then had the way completely clear for white settlement.

 

[Pogo]

One of the five people who were killed in the Boston Massacre was black. I'll bet you didn't know that.

The Boston Massacre

There were black plantation owners who owned black slaves. I'll bet you didn't know that.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

There were blacks who fought for the Confederacy. I'll bet you didn't know that.

Yes, There Were Black Confederates. Here’s Why

I knew all of that, and you know how much of it I learned from a statue or a monument?

Zero.

 

[Pogo]

Ponce de Leon's life size statue is displayed in St. Augustine, FL. He was 5' tall (or short) The buildings reflect the small stature of the conquistadors. I don't like that conquistadors were butchering natives, let's remove that statue from North America's oldest city founded by the Spanish.
Another interesting thing can be found in St. Augustine supporting the idea of not to tear down monuments. See below:

"A relic of this second period of Spanish rule is the Constitution monument, an obelisk honoring the Spanish Constitution of 1812,[67] one of the most liberal of its time. In 1814 King Ferdinand VII of Spain abolished that constitution and had monuments to it torn down; the one in St. Augustine is said to be the only one to survive." (bold highlighting is mine)
St. Augustine, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take that Pogster. Your monument destroying crusade may not be justified.

I don't have a "crusade". What I'm afflicted with is an ability to fucking read.

 

[Pogo]

News from The Associated Press

In the Soviet Union, people who became disfavored by the Communist Party were "disappeared." Not only would their body disappear, but also their memory. Photographs would be altered to remove them. History books would be edited to remove all mention of them. Any paintings or statues of them would be taken down, and everyone know that to name that person would bring upon that same fate upon themselves.

George Orwell, a socialist who became disillusioned with Communism while he fought on the Loyalist Side during the Spanish Civil War, warned the world about a future where an all powerful state would control language and history so as to control what words people were allowed to say, which would control what thoughts they were allowed to think. If there was not a word for a concept, people would not be able to think it.

Now, we see politicians in the South taking down statues and monuments of Confederate heroes. But there is no history to replace it with, so the South will become a place with no history at all. That is an ideal situation for the left, because in the gap, they can impose their own false mythology, and children will believe it in the absence of truth.

Yeah ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....... removing a statue or monument has no effect on history. It just removes the statue or monument.

---- or didn't you think of that?

According to that thinking, leaving them would have no impact either.

Correct.

I think somebody actually got the point.

 

[Hossfly]

One of the five people who were killed in the Boston Massacre was black. I'll bet you didn't know that.

The Boston Massacre

There were black plantation owners who owned black slaves. I'll bet you didn't know that.

Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

There were blacks who fought for the Confederacy. I'll bet you didn't know that.

Yes, There Were Black Confederates. Here’s Why

I knew all of that, and you know how much of it I learned from a statue or a monument?

Zero.

 

[Pogo]

Yes. You do learn history by walking around examining monuments, statues and historical places. That is how you learn history.

The average college grad has absolutely no concept of United States history. They don't even know what the 4th of July is much less the civil war.

It might be how you learn history. That would explain a ton.

 

[Hossfly]

The civil war has already been forgotten. The battles, the men, the honor, the savagery, brother against brother, the fact that it was the bloodiest war in human history up to that point. Do a man on th street Interview and ask the young people to name any civil war generals.

All they will have is the narrow view that a war was fought that ended slavery. This is what the op is about, erase the past and erase the American identity.

And that is a bunch of crap pogo. You take away the monuments and symbols and you take away the connection to the past. What the hell you think the monuments are there for?

For people who can't read?

 

[Blackrook]

Yes. You do learn history by walking around examining monuments, statues and historical places. That is how you learn history.

The average college grad has absolutely no concept of United States history. They don't even know what the 4th of July is much less the civil war.

It might be how you learn history. That would explain a ton.

Why do you think schools take kids to see the Battlefield of Gettysberg, why do think tourists go to the graveyard of soldiers who died on D-Day?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

News from The Associated Press

In the Soviet Union, people who became disfavored by the Communist Party were "disappeared." Not only would their body disappear, but also their memory. Photographs would be altered to remove them. History books would be edited to remove all mention of them. Any paintings or statues of them would be taken down, and everyone know that to name that person would bring upon that same fate upon themselves.

George Orwell, a socialist who became disillusioned with Communism while he fought on the Loyalist Side during the Spanish Civil War, warned the world about a future where an all powerful state would control language and history so as to control what words people were allowed to say, which would control what thoughts they were allowed to think. If there was not a word for a concept, people would not be able to think it.

Now, we see politicians in the South taking down statues and monuments of Confederate heroes. But there is no history to replace it with, so the South will become a place with no history at all. That is an ideal situation for the left, because in the gap, they can impose their own false mythology, and children will believe it in the absence of truth.

The point is this, the left hates anything or anybody who is opposed to, or outside, the all powerful state that they are trying to create. Under Communism, Christian holidays were outlawed, Churches were abandoned, children were encouraged to spy on their parents, any non-Communist parties were outlawed, all children were forced to join the Communist youth groups.

The left wants this to happen here, and if they can get either Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton into office, it will be a victory for them. Both candidates hate and despise the United States, and everything it stands for. Both will continue Obama's policy of setting groups against each other, rich v. the middle class, white v. blacks, men v. women, gays v. straights. In other words, both candidates are counting on hate to sweep them into office, as what happened with Obama.

When you erase history, you are destroying all memory of our ancestors, and with it the knowledge of why we are here, what caused it to happen, and what will the future bring. The leftist wants us to live only in the present, with the state having all power over our bodies, our words, and our minds. And that is where we are going. The entire Democrat party is taking us there.

The point is this fails as a straw man fallacy, nothing but a ridiculous lie, devoid of fact or merit.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The biggest villain in my mind is King Henry VIII, not for all the people he killed, but for his wanton destruction of all signs of the Roman Catholic Church. Monasteries were looted and burned to the ground. Statues and stained glass windows were smashed, relics of the saints were destroyed.

Now the city council of New Orleans are doing the same to destroy the memory that Louisiana was a Confederate state, and it's only going to get worse.

Wrong again, this is another lie, it fails as a false comparison fallacy.