Paying reparations in America would be immoral- The reality of slavery in America versus everywhere else

[Curried Goats]

Studies have already been commissioned. You have no thoughts on those?

Which one? Name one. I haven't read one yet that gave a real detailed look of what reparations would actually look like, just general ideas and recommendations.

Studies have already been commissioned. You don’t have any thoughts on those?

Its weird that you yourself seem to be aware of them and cant name a single one. Is there one you would like to talk about?

I’m not imagining anything, I’m listening to what they are saying.

Are you? I dont know many black supremacists. Maybe that an affect of the type of circles you travel in....

Because the studies that have already been done have suggested that the injustice is worth multiple millions of dollars to every black…NON IMMIGRANT…citizen of the subject of the study.

Have they? Which one?

Good grief, when I say “black people” it should be obvious I’m only talking about those who would be eligible for the packages being proposed.



Commissions have been seated, studies have been done…some of these studies recommend being used as a national model.

Well then link to it and we can talk about it and whatever problems you have with it. Until you do that I'm kind of operating blind here.

“Subjective”…meaning “based on personal feelings”

The courts can determine the injustice and compensation for Floyd and Breonna based on the actions they can SEE.

They see the injustice but what that injustice is worth is subjective.

Ok, you say “let’s leave it up to the commission”…what if the commission comes back and says reparations are not justified, or it’s just a minor compensation, would you have any thoughts on it then?

Probably.

What facts? You haven’t given any. This entire discussion has been you basically saying “I don’t have any opinion on the already proposed packages are, let’s wait on some other commission to see what they say”

I don't have detailed thoughts on the ones I've seen because they weren't that detailed. My thoughts on them were, "ok, that's an idea". I'm fine with San Francisco giving every Black American eligible for their program a million dollars or whatever it was. That's my thought.

Yes, they do. What do you think would happen if you gave upward of 30 million people a bunch of money, free homes, free education? You think the economy is just going to stay the same? Of course not, things will get more expensive.

I don't make decisions based on what you fantasize the economy doing in the future.

I’m not asking you entertain anything, I’m just trying to get you to give a comment on anything that has already been proposed. You won’t do it.

I'd just like to know what I'm actually commenting on.

 

[MizMolly]

Of course, you have and do and you're a fool if you think otherwise.

In what way do I benefit more than you do?

 

[MizMolly]

Hate to tell you this Molly, I grew up on the back end of Jim Crow, so get your facts right. White women in this country have never been treated like black women or men have in this country. Nowhere near it.

Why did Japanese Americans receive reparations?

Why has America given Israel over 246 billion since the Holocaust?

Why did America give reparations to native Americans?

Why did America pay restitution to Eskimos?

Why did America pay restitution to former slave owners?

But you are wanting reparations for all black people,even those who were not affected directly bu Jim Crow. And whether one person suffered more than another is a moot point, they still suffered, but not in this lifetime.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

In what way do I benefit more than you do?

Come on Molly, now you are playing dumb.

Are you really telling me you don't believe whites have benefitted over blacks from slavery and Jim Crow?

 

[Superbadbrutha]

But you are wanting reparations for all black people,even those who were not affected directly bu Jim Crow. And whether one person suffered more than another is a moot point, they still suffered, but not in this lifetime.

No only the black folks whose families were slaves or came up during Jim Crow. So, explain to me why these folks' deserved reparations, but not black folks who suffered in this country for over 400yrs.

Why did Japanese Americans receive reparations?

Why has America given Israel over 246 billion since the Holocaust?

Why did America give reparations to native Americans?

Why did America pay restitution to Eskimos?

Why did America pay restitution to former slave owners?

 

[ThisIsMe]

Which one? Name one. I haven't read one yet that gave a real detailed look of what reparations would actually look like, just general ideas and recommendations.

Its weird that you yourself seem to be aware of them and cant name a single one. Is there one you would like to talk about?

Are you? I dont know many black supremacists. Maybe that an affect of the type of circles you travel in....

Have they? Which one?

Well then link to it and we can talk about it and whatever problems you have with it. Until you do that I'm kind of operating blind here.

They see the injustice but what that injustice is worth is subjective.

Probably.

I don't have detailed thoughts on the ones I've seen because they weren't that detailed. My thoughts on them were, "ok, that's an idea". I'm fine with San Francisco giving every Black American eligible for their program a million dollars or whatever it was. That's my thought.

I don't make decisions based on what you fantasize the economy doing in the future.

I'd just like to know what I'm actually commenting on.

Which one? Name one. I haven't read one yet that gave a real detailed look of what reparations would actually look like, just general ideas and recommendations.

California has 1 or 2 commissions, Indiana has one..either of them?

Are you? I dont know many black supremacists. Maybe that an affect of the type of circles you travel in....

What black supremacists? I’m not saying anything like that, you can read them on the forums here, they post all kinds of things.

Have they? Which one?

The San Francisco reparations committee

Well then link to it and we can talk about it and whatever problems you have with it. Until you do that I'm kind of operating blind here.

San Francisco board open to reparations with $5M payouts

The draft reparations plan, released in December, is unmatched nationwide in its specificity and breadth.

www.nbcnews.com

". I'm fine with San Francisco giving every Black American eligible for their program a million dollars or whatever it was. That's my thought.

That one proposed 5M for every eligible person, $97,000 guaranteed income for the next 250 years, homes for $1, elimination of person debt and tax burdens, and other recommendations.

I don't make decisions based on what you fantasize the economy doing in the future.

So. I thought for the future, just “let’s do it and see what happens”?

Someone has to think of these things because if they don’t, then they are not doing their due diligence.

 

[MizMolly]

No only the black folks whose families were slaves or came up during Jim Crow. So, explain to me why these folks' deserved reparations, but not black folks who suffered in this country for over 400yrs.

Why did Japanese Americans receive reparations?

Why has America given Israel over 246 billion since the Holocaus
Why did America give reparations to native Americans?

Why did America pay restitution to Eskimos?
Did
Why did expAmerica pay restitution to former slave owners?

I

Come on Molly, now you are playing dumb.

 

[MizMolly]

[QUOTE="Superbadbrutha, post: 35098069, member: 24341
Come on Molly, now you are playing dumb.

Are you really telling me you don't believe whites have benefitted over blacks from slavery and Jim Crow?
[/QUOTE]
Did you not read my replies? TODAY? How have I benefitted more than you? You keep avoiding or wrongly interpreting my replies. Now who is playing dumb? The Japanese reparations were in their lifetime. Land was taken from NA. Israelis did not receive reparations from the Holocaust.

 

[ice man]

Which one? Name one. I haven't read one yet that gave a real detailed look of what reparations would actually look like, just general ideas and recommendations.

Its weird that you yourself seem to be aware of them and cant name a single one. Is there one you would like to talk about?

Are you? I dont know many black supremacists. Maybe that an affect of the type of circles you travel in....

Have they? Which one?

Well then link to it and we can talk about it and whatever problems you have with it. Until you do that I'm kind of operating blind here.

They see the injustice but what that injustice is worth is subjective.

Probably.

I don't have detailed thoughts on the ones I've seen because they weren't that detailed. My thoughts on them were, "ok, that's an idea". I'm fine with San Francisco giving every Black American eligible for their program a million dollars or whatever it was. That's my thought.

I don't make decisions based on what you fantasize the economy doing in the future.

I'd just like to know what I'm actually commenting on.

Incorrect.

 

[Curried Goats]

California has 1 or 2 commissions, Indiana has one..either of them?

I didn't know about Indiana's and I thought California was still doing the other one but they finished it, I took a look and it is fairly comprehensive, both in detailing non racial forms of reparations that this country routinely administers but also making the case for racial reparations as well plans to address housing, wealth and educational discrimination. What are your thoughts on it?

What black supremacists? I’m not saying anything like that, you can read them on the forums here, they post all kinds of things.

Quote one specifically so I don't have to use my imagination and I can know what you're actually referring to.

The San Francisco reparations committee

San Francisco board open to reparations with $5M payouts

The draft reparations plan, released in December, is unmatched nationwide in its specificity and breadth.

www.nbcnews.com

That one proposed 5M for every eligible person, $97,000 guaranteed income for the next 250 years, homes for $1, elimination of person debt and tax burdens, and other recommendations.

Yeah this one I find a lot less information on. They gave a bunch of proposals it wasn't really a unified plan. They could do one or multiple or none of those proposals. In fact I think the only one that passed so far was an official apology but I'm not really opposed to any of them in particular, they are at least something.

So. I thought for the future, just “let’s do it and see what happens”?

Nope. I suggest we do it because it is just.

Someone has to think of these things because if they don’t, then they are not doing their due diligence.

Just because you had a fantasy it doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it seriously.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

They aren’t getting reparations from America.

The US has given Israel 246 billion dollars since the end of WWII.

 

[MizMolly]

The US has given Israel 246 billion dollars since the end of WWII.

And other countries

 

[ThisIsMe]

I didn't know about Indiana's and I thought California was still doing the other one but they finished it, I took a look and it is fairly comprehensive, both in detailing non racial forms of reparations that this country routinely administers but also making the case for racial reparations as well plans to address housing, wealth and educational discrimination. What are your thoughts on it?

Quote one specifically so I don't have to use my imagination and I can know what you're actually referring to.

Yeah this one I find a lot less information on. They gave a bunch of proposals it wasn't really a unified plan. They could do one or multiple or none of those proposals. In fact I think the only one that passed so far was an official apology but I'm not really opposed to any of them in particular, they are at least something.

Nope. I suggest we do it because it is just.

Just because you had a fantasy it doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it seriously.

What are your thoughts on it?

I’ve made my thoughts clear on this, if the San Francisco model is used, I think it’s going to cause problems.

In the case of the proposed 1.2 million per eligible black resident, they are saying anyone who was a defendant of a salve, or anyone who is a defendant of a free black person”, whether they have been directly or indirectly harmed.

Again, they are wanting to make, potentially, a million or two black residents millionaires, if two are in a family, that could be over 2 million.

If they are trying to compensate for loss of generational wealth, then again, I have to ask, how can they prove if slavery and discrimination hadn’t existed, that all of those people would have accumulated generational wealth.

If it’s simply about penance for the wrongs of slavery and discrimination, then I think it has to be a sliding scale, with people getting more compensation the further back you go, and less the more you get closer to present day.

I say this because, there would have been more discrimination back decades ago, with the redlining, black people being left out of health benefits and social security…etc. a lot of those things have been fixed (not perfect) with civil rights, and change in society.

Quote one specifically so I don't have to use my imagination and I can know what you're actually referring to.

It would be far easier for you to just click on the search button up top and type in “systemic racism” and use IM2, Superbad or any of the others to see what they are saying about systemic racism. The point was, that black people in general are told that systemic racism is the cause of many of their problems, an issue I doubt they would trust white people to fix..hence, they won’t feel like justice is served until they themselves control the levers of power.

Just because you had a fantasy it doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it seriously.

It’s not a fantasy, it’s a real thing that is being talked about…and as long as it’s being considered, the ramifications of it also need to be considered.

 

[JustAGuy1]

Why are whites making these kinds of comments after being given trillions of dollars worth of economic assistance from the government that blacks were denied and yetthey still ask for more today?

We aren't going to pay you Jack, not a dime buckwheat.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

And other countries

Not 246 billion.

 

[MizMolly]

Not 246 billion.

Irrelevant

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Irrelevant

No, it's not irrelevant, it's amazing how the criteria changes when it comes to black folks. It's one of the main things Dr King spoke of before he was murdered.

 

[Curried Goats]

I’ve made my thoughts clear on this, if the San Francisco model is used, I think it’s going to cause problems.

Real insightful thoughts there guy.

In the case of the proposed 1.2 million per eligible black resident, they are saying anyone who was a defendant of a salve, or anyone who is a defendant of a free black person”, whether they have been directly or indirectly harmed.

I don't know what you're trying to say here but this is what I got from your link.

Fewer than 50,000 Black people still live in the city, and it’s not clear how many would be eligible. Possible criteria include having lived in the city during certain time periods and descending from someone “incarcerated for the failed War on Drugs.”

Again, they are wanting to make, potentially, a million or two black residents millionaires, if two are in a family, that could be over 2 million.

Your own link says fewer than 50,000 black people live in the city. Did you read your own link?

If they are trying to compensate for loss of generational wealth, then again, I have to ask, how can they prove if slavery and discrimination hadn’t existed, that all of those people would have accumulated generational wealth.

If it’s simply about penance for the wrongs of slavery and discrimination, then I think it has to be a sliding scale, with people getting more compensation the further back you go, and less the more you get closer to present day.

Why can't it be for both?

I say this because, there would have been more discrimination back decades ago, with the redlining, black people being left out of health benefits and social security…etc. a lot of those things have been fixed (not perfect) with civil rights, and change in society.

How have they been "fixed"?

It would be far easier for you to just click on the search button up top and type in “systemic racism” and use IM2, Superbad or any of the others to see what they are saying about systemic racism.

No. It's on you to prove your claims. Should I take it that you're unable to?

The point was, that black people in general are told that systemic racism is the cause of many of their problems, an issue I doubt they would trust white people to fix..hence, they won’t feel like justice is served until they themselves control the levers of power.

And my point is that the things you fantasize about while amusing don't leave much room for rational debate. Lots of reasons to point and laugh however.

It’s not a fantasy, it’s a real thing that is being talked about…and as long as it’s being considered, the ramifications of it also need to be considered.

So feel free to consider them. Also feel free to make these considerations public so we can all be in on the joke.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Real insightful thoughts there guy.

I don't know what you're trying to say here but this is what I got from your link.

Fewer than 50,000 Black people still live in the city, and it’s not clear how many would be eligible. Possible criteria include having lived in the city during certain time periods and descending from someone “incarcerated for the failed War on Drugs.”

Your own link says fewer than 50,000 black people live in the city. Did you read your own link?

Why can't it be for both?

How have they been "fixed"?

No. It's on you to prove your claims. Should I take it that you're unable to?

And my point is that the things you fantasize about while amusing don't leave much room for rational debate. Lots of reasons to point and laugh however.

So feel free to consider them. Also feel free to make these considerations public so we can all be in on the joke.

Real insightful thoughts there guy

I mean, I’ve already told you my thoughts on it…would there be any need for me to say it again?

Your own link says fewer than 50,000 black people live in the city. Did you read your own link?

The link I posted was about the San Francisco model, the comment you were replying to was about the California reparations commissions proposal. Theirs is the 1.2 million dollar proposal. Sorry for the confusion. There are more than one commissions making proposals.

Why can't it be for both?

It can be, however, earlier, you were saying that you weren’t regarding the loss in generational wealth, you said you were just looking at the injustice done.

It can be for both, but, I think it needs to be on a sliding scale, not just “everyone gets the same thing”.

I think the older people, the ones who were closer to the era of the injustice, should get a more substantial compensation than the people of today. I also think it’s going to be very difficult to do it because, you can’t just say “everyone gets this amount because of injustice” because, there may have been those who didn’t suffer injustice, or at least not to the extent of getting a million dollar pay day. There are some black people who have lived very privileged lives, and there are some who just made bad choices that would explain why they didn’t do well in life. It’s just not so cut and dry to say “all black people that descended from slaves, or free black men at the time” deserve the same kind of compensation.

How have they been "fixed"?

Black people today are not excluded from health benefits or social security.

No. It's on you to prove your claims. Should I take it that you're unable to?

No, if you want me to give you a list of people talking about systemic racism, I’ll be glad to..just give me a minute…

…a few moments later….

Ok I’m back from compiling a list so..here ya go..have at it:




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And my point is that the things you fantasize about while amusing don't leave much room for rational debate. Lots of reasons to point and laugh however.

So, you’re going to tell me that you trust the white people who are supposed to be the cause of all this systemic racism…people who apparently are racist and don’t even know it, you think black people are going to trust them to fix the system that they claim is biased against them? Seriously?

So feel free to consider them. Also feel free to make these considerations public so we can all be in on the joke.

Laugh all you like, I really don’t care. I think it would be unwise to consider these things and NOT consider the negative ramifications of them as well.