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Employer Health Insurance Options are getting worse and worse

sealybobo

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Ok.. so, people shouldn't provide healthcare for profit. What should they provide health care for? Fun? The satisfaction of helping their fellow man?
Profit has to be worked in to the cost but just like auto union workers were overpaid and driving up the cost of cars so too are these healthcare giants.

Who can we have compete with the insurance companies like we had Toyota and Honda compete with Ford and GM? We can't bring in a flood of foreign doctors. The industry is too heavily regulated for that. So we need a public option.

Think about how much easier it would be to start a business if there were a free public option.

Think about how much employers and consumers would save if corporations didn't have to buy healthcare.
 

dblack

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Profit has to be worked in to the cost but just like auto union workers were overpaid and driving up the cost of cars so too are these healthcare giants.
Huh? Are you saying auto-workers shouldn't be paid either?

Who can we have compete with the insurance companies like we had Toyota and Honda compete with Ford and GM? We can't bring in a flood of foreign doctors. The industry is too heavily regulated for that.
Yep. That's a problem. One with a very obvious and simple solution.
So we need a public option.
Yes. Bad regulation tends to lead to a socialist mentality.

Think about how much employers and consumers would save if corporations didn't have to buy healthcare.

Profit is central to any human profession. Despite high-minded aphorisms, people work for money. Take the money away and they won't work, or they'll find another profession where they ARE allowed to earn a profit.

Do you imagine recruiting doctors with something like a military draft?
 
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iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem

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Have you negotiated a personal policy for yourself and/or others?
Policies cost way above what most people can afford.
ACA plans are an abomination.
They are, with very few differences, catastrophic care only plans. Only they cost 5 to 10 times what catastrophic care plans used to cost before ACA.
A person who makes $18/hr can hardly afford to pay $6-$700 month for a plan that pays nothing until you first pay out $1000's. Like I say, that is not health insurance. That is catastrophic insurance renamed health insurance. But Obama did it... so it HAS to be awesome.
 

dblack

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ACA plans are an abomination.
They are, with very few differences, catastrophic care only plans. Only they cost 5 to 10 times what catastrophic care plans used to cost before ACA.
Yep. ACA's catastrophic plans cost as much as the normal plans used to. Before ACA, catastrophic plans were a bargain, and that was the direction people were going. But those policies cut out the middleman and don't generate enough profit for the insurance industry, so a change was needed.

A person who makes $18/hr can hardly afford to pay $6-$700 month for a plan that pays nothing until you first pay out $1000's. Like I say, that is not health insurance. That is catastrophic insurance renamed health insurance. But Obama did it... so it HAS to be awesome.

We don't want old school, low-deductible, cover-everything-under-the-sun, health insurance. It's a waste of money. The prudent thing to do, but from a micro and macro perspective, is to buy as much of our healthcare out of pocket as we can possibly manage. Insurance only makes sense as a hedge against catastrophe. There's simply no reason to pipe every single healthcare dollar through the insurance industry. Unless you're in the insurance industry.
 

JustAGuy1

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That's some health reform. Before our system was very costly and didn't cover very much or very many. Now we pay just about the same and it covers more people. And pre existing conditions. And annual check ups are free. Stuff like that. It was a start. What do you want to solve next? Let's do it!

No, we don't pay just about the same. The ACA raised it significantly, so much so that MNAY carriers jumped out of the market.
 
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iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem

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Yep. ACA's catastrophic plans cost as much as the normal plans used to. Before ACA, catastrophic plans were a bargain, and that was the direction people were going. But those policies cut out the middleman and don't generate enough profit for the insurance industry, so a change was needed.



We don't want old school, low-deductible, cover-everything-under-the-sun, health insurance. It's a waste of money. The prudent thing to do, but from a micro and macro perspective, is to buy as much of our healthcare out of pocket as we can possibly manage. Insurance only makes sense as a hedge against catastrophe. There's simply no reason to pipe every single healthcare dollar through the insurance industry. Unless you're in the insurance industry.
And I agree with that.
The problem is, with ACA, they had to bring in enough money to pay 100% of everything for the growing very low wage/unemployed population.
 

sealybobo

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Huh? Are you saying auto-workers shouldn't be paid either?


Yep. That's a problem. One with a very obvious and simple solution.

Yes. Bad regulation tends to lead to a socialist mentality.



Profit is central to any human profession. Despite high-minded aphorisms, people work for money. Take the money away and they won't work, or they'll find another profession where they ARE allowed to earn a profit.

Do you imagine recruiting doctors with something like a military draft?
I say we should let blacks with 3.1 GPA's go to doctor school for free. But they have to work in big liberal cities and work at socialized hospitals. They may not make as much but they wouldn't have gotten in to medical school any other way. And it's free or very affordable to go to one of these hospitals. Subsodized by the government. And when you cons get sick and can't afford the deductable or copay, you too will drive your ass into our shithole city for the life saving help you couldn't afford any other way.

3.1 white kids can be in this program too. I'm just saying, I have a dream. It's not that hard to be a primary care doctor. If it's serious they can send them to the higher ups. And there is much less profit motive behind their decisions.
 
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iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem

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I say we should let blacks with 3.1 GPA's go to doctor school for free. But they have to work in big liberal cities and work at socialized hospitals. They may not make as much but they wouldn't have gotten in to medical school any other way. And it's free or very affordable to go to one of these hospitals. Subsodized by the government. And when you cons get sick and can't afford the deductable or copay, you too will drive your ass into our shithole city for the life saving help you couldn't afford any other way.

3.1 white kids can be in this program too. I'm just saying, I have a dream. It's not that hard to be a primary care doctor. If it's serious they can send them to the higher ups. And there is much less profit motive behind their decisions.
READ: I have a dream that the entire human race will change everything they want and desire to how I think they should. I mean, I am not this way... but they should be.

HAHAHAHA
 
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iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem

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No, we don't pay just about the same. The ACA raised it significantly, so much so that MNAY carriers jumped out of the market.
At this point I quit responding to him/her.
He/she is either a troll, or really is this uninformed and hasn't the capacity to understand anything that doesn't follow the narrative they like.
To actually make a comment that health insurance was more expensive before ACA is over-the-top false. And I think they totally believe it, because some article they Googled tells them it is true. Without, of course, even reading the article.
 

dblack

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I say we should let blacks with 3.1 GPA's go to doctor school for free. But they have to work in big liberal cities and work at socialized hospitals. They may not make as much but they wouldn't have gotten in to medical school any other way.
Wow, you certainly have a negative view of what blacks are capable of. I'm not sure they'll appreciate being forced to work somewhere against their will. They didn't like it much the last time we tried that.
3.1 white kids can be in this program too. I'm just saying, I have a dream.
It's a nightmare. Wake up.
It's not that hard to be a primary care doctor.
Yeah. Riiiiight. Easy peasy. Even blacks can do it!
 
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sealybobo

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Wow, you certainly have a negative view of what blacks are capable of. I'm not sure they'll appreciate being forced to work somewhere against their will. They didn't like it much the last time we tried that.

It's a nightmare. Wake up.

Yeah. Riiiiight. Easy peasy. Even blacks can do it!
It's like being a teacher. Perhaps there is a better way. Someone with a little less training, let's say a nurse checks you out. Then they have 10 doctors in Washington that the nurses can consult. This low cost government option may not be for everyone, but it's good for someone who's been denied by a private insurer for having a pre existing condition.
 
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iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem

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It's like being a teacher. Perhaps there is a better way. Someone with a little less training, let's say a nurse checks you out. Then they have 10 doctors in Washington that the nurses can consult. This low cost government option may not be for everyone, but it's good for someone who's been denied by a private insurer for having a pre existing condition.


deflect2.jpg

"I can't respond with anything meaningful, so I will say something else completely unrelated... "
 

dblack

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Care4all

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Insurance is like going to Vegas to gamble.
You are betting you get sick... only way you will get a payout.
They are betting you won't.

Just received this years enrollment info.
3 Plans
PPO
- $776/mo Premium, $1,500 deductible per member with annual max OOP at $17,400 (inc. premiums paid)
A traditional plan more or less, you are betting $9,312 that you will get sick and have more bills than $1,500 each
HSA 1 - $428/mo Premium, $2,500 deductible per member with max OOP $11,336
You are betting less... $5,136 that you will get sick and have bills over $2,500.
HSA 2 - $199/mo premium, $7,000 deductible, but max OOP is only $9,038.
You are betting the least amount. Only $2,388 you will get sick and have bills over $7000.

Choice is simple.
Pay a lot of money to save a few bucks if you really get sick. Or pay less money and risk it.

It used to be so fucking simple.
Everyone paid the same, and the deductible use to be $500, and the premiums were less than 1/4 the cost of today's plans.


Our system is broke. Rigged to make Insurance companies a LOT of money, and only pay a dime if you have a major crises.
It's aweful!!!! The hubby's insurance through work was the same as yours, and covering me, they contributed nothing for it....

I haven't worked for about 20 years, but at the time my insurance was less than $50 bucks a month, $200 deductible, and insurance covered 80%....the company paid the bulk of the premium....

My hubby's work offered insurance has gotten worse with less coverage, higher deductibles, higher premiums every year thereafter....

One question, are meds covered under all of those plans, or are they not covered until the deductible is met?
 
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iamwhatiseem

iamwhatiseem

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It's aweful!!!! The hubby's insurance through work was the same as yours, and covering me, they contributed nothing for it....

I haven't worked for about 20 years, but at the time my insurance was less than $50 bucks a month, $200 deductible, and insurance covered 80%....the company paid the bulk of the premium....

My hubby's work offered insurance has gotten worse with less coverage, higher deductibles, higher premiums every year thereafter....

One question, are meds covered under all of those plans, or are they not covered until the deductible is met?
Most plans, prescriptions are separate from the rest of the plan. For instance, I take 100 mg of Atenonol every day... the direct cost of that is about $35. But I only pay $4. Insurance companies want you to take meds. They know that many people either can't afford them, or just wouldn't do it if they had to pay for it. So plans immediately pay for scripts because not taking them will result in much higher cost later.
 

Rigby5

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Huh? Are you saying auto-workers shouldn't be paid either?


Yep. That's a problem. One with a very obvious and simple solution.

Yes. Bad regulation tends to lead to a socialist mentality.



Profit is central to any human profession. Despite high-minded aphorisms, people work for money. Take the money away and they won't work, or they'll find another profession where they ARE allowed to earn a profit.

Do you imagine recruiting doctors with something like a military draft?

You are confusing the subject.
No one is saying doctors should not earn a living and make a profit.
The point is who is paying the doctors and the choice is between insurance companies and government.
Insurance companies skim off profit, produce nothing, and tend to change the poor more than the wealthy because they have no negotiating clout like the big corporations do.
Government takes very little, adds quality and cost regulation, and ensures equality of care.
If you don't like what government did, you can vote for change.
If you don't like what insurance companies are doing, you have no recourse.
 

Rigby5

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Most plans, prescriptions are separate from the rest of the plan. For instance, I take 100 mg of Atenonol every day... the direct cost of that is about $35. But I only pay $4. Insurance companies want you to take meds. They know that many people either can't afford them, or just wouldn't do it if they had to pay for it. So plans immediately pay for scripts because not taking them will result in much higher cost later.

But if you actually do start needing enough medical treatment so that you are no longer profitable to the insurance company, they drop you.
So then all the money you paid in the past is lost.
The insurance company took off the profit but then avoids paying their share of any costs.
All the money you paid in while you did not need any treatment is gone once you change jobs, move out of state, actually get injured or a condition, etc.
Insurance companies are actually useless and essentially just a scam, with promises they have no intentions of keeping.
 

dblack

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The point is who is paying the doctors and the choice is between insurance companies and government.
Or patients. You're premise is a false dichotomy.
It's the presumption that patients shouldn't be responsible for their own health care costs that is causing the problem. We're chasing delusion.
Government takes very little, adds quality and cost regulation, and ensures equality of care.
If you don't like what government did, you can vote for change.
If you don't like what insurance companies are doing, you have no recourse.
It's exactly the opposite. If you don't like what your insurance company is doing, you can fire them. Today. You don't have to ask permission, you don't have to convince the majority to agree with you.

You have no such recourse with government. Best case scenario, you can vote for someone else in the next election. But that only works if the rest of the country agrees with you. If they don't, you're shit out of luck.
 

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