Does it matter if Jesus isn't God?

[konradv]

If He isn't then the scriptures are false. So yes, It matters.

Either He is who He claimed to be or He is a complete fraud. There really isnt much room for compromise on that.

I don't recall a scripture where he said, "I am God". There are passages where you could interpret it that way, but you could also interpret it as Muslims and non-Trinitarian Christian do, that he was a lesser created being, NOT God.

Although Jesus never stated " I am God" he did say that "the Father and I are one".

John 10:30

Still open to interpretation. Should I be fortunate enough to enter The Pearly Gates, I'd consider myself "one" with God.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I don't recall a scripture where he said, "I am God". There are passages where you could interpret it that way, but you could also interpret it as Muslims and non-Trinitarian Christian do, that he was a lesser created being, NOT God.

Although Jesus never stated " I am God" he did say that "the Father and I are one".

John 10:30

Still open to interpretation. Should I be fortunate enough to enter The Pearly Gates, I'd consider myself "one" with God.

But He hadn't yet entered the "Pearly Gates" when He made that statement.

Besides He didn't say he was one with God, He said He and God are one.

By Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-4, 14

 

[ABikerSailor]

Although Jesus never stated " I am God" he did say that "the Father and I are one".

John 10:30

Still open to interpretation. Should I be fortunate enough to enter The Pearly Gates, I'd consider myself "one" with God.

But He hadn't yet entered the "Pearly Gates" when He made that statement.

Besides He didn't say he was one with God, He said He and God are one.

By Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-4, 14

A lot of Christians get that one confused. Yeshua taught in parables like a rabbi did (after all, He was sort of one), and the particular thing He was referring to is in the Talmud which states that around the 40 day mark of pregnancy, God places a small piece of His energy which He carved off of Himself to create your soul.

Actually, Yeshua was referring to being a small piece of God, like we all are.

I just wish more people would act like it.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Still open to interpretation. Should I be fortunate enough to enter The Pearly Gates, I'd consider myself "one" with God.

But He hadn't yet entered the "Pearly Gates" when He made that statement.

Besides He didn't say he was one with God, He said He and God are one.

By Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-4, 14

A lot of Christians get that one confused. Yeshua taught in parables like a rabbi did (after all, He was sort of one), and the particular thing He was referring to is in the Talmud which states that around the 40 day mark of pregnancy, God places a small piece of His energy which He carved off of Himself to create your soul.

Actually, Yeshua was referring to being a small piece of God, like we all are.

I just wish more people would act like it.

Why do you use the Hebrew name if you're not Jewish?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Still open to interpretation. Should I be fortunate enough to enter The Pearly Gates, I'd consider myself "one" with God.

But He hadn't yet entered the "Pearly Gates" when He made that statement.

Besides He didn't say he was one with God, He said He and God are one.

By Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-4, 14

A lot of Christians get that one confused. Yeshua taught in parables like a rabbi did (after all, He was sort of one), and the particular thing He was referring to is in the Talmud which states that around the 40 day mark of pregnancy, God places a small piece of His energy which He carved off of Himself to create your soul.

Actually, Yeshua was referring to being a small piece of God, like we all are.

I just wish more people would act like it.

I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about.

That verse was not Jesus talking in parables.

 

[MarcATL]

The Encyclopædia Britannica states, "To some Christians the doctrine of the Trinity appeared inconsistent with the unity of God....They therefore denied it, and accepted Jesus Christ, not as incarnate God, but as God's highest creature by Whom all else was created....[this] view in the early Church long contended with the orthodox doctrine."

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The two greatest commandments would still hold, love God and love your neighbor. Isn't everything else just window-dressing?

No, it's not.

 

[Avatar4321]

If He isn't then the scriptures are false. So yes, It matters.

Either He is who He claimed to be or He is a complete fraud. There really isnt much room for compromise on that.

I don't recall a scripture where he said, "I am God". There are passages where you could interpret it that way, but you could also interpret it as Muslims and non-Trinitarian Christian do, that he was a lesser created being, NOT God.

"Before Abraham, was I AM."

"The Word was God"

 

[MarcATL]

The Encyclopædia Britannica states, "To some Christians the doctrine of the Trinity appeared inconsistent with the unity of God....They therefore denied it, and accepted Jesus Christ, not as incarnate God, but as God's highest creature by Whom all else was created....[this] view in the early Church long contended with the orthodox doctrine."

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The two greatest commandments would still hold, love God and love your neighbor. Isn't everything else just window-dressing?

Are you an atheist konradv?

The reason I ask, is because this seems to be an atheist/non-believer's viewpoint. In that nothing really matters.

The Trinity is simultaneously a very simple, and yet very complex concept. I believe we won't fully understand it, as human beings, until and unless we make it to Heaven.

The best explanation of The Trinity I heard was on 'Religulous', Bill interviewed the actor that plays Jesus at the religious park in FL and he said something to this effect..."The Trinity is like water, it can hold many forms, steam/mist, liquid and solid/ice"

I think I didn't quote it exact, but that was the jist. Very simple, yet complex answer. Spot on.

But to address the OP directly, God wouldn't send his son, to take on the sins of the ENTIRE world...for the details not to matter.

Think about it.

 

[konradv]

The Encyclopædia Britannica states, "To some Christians the doctrine of the Trinity appeared inconsistent with the unity of God....They therefore denied it, and accepted Jesus Christ, not as incarnate God, but as God's highest creature by Whom all else was created....[this] view in the early Church long contended with the orthodox doctrine."

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The two greatest commandments would still hold, love God and love your neighbor. Isn't everything else just window-dressing?

Are you an atheist konradv?

The reason I ask, is because this seems to be an atheist/non-believer's viewpoint. In that nothing really matters.

The Trinity is simultaneously a very simple, and yet very complex concept. I believe we won't fully understand it, as human beings, until and unless we make it to Heaven.

The best explanation of The Trinity I heard was on 'Religulous', Bill interviewed the actor that plays Jesus at the religious park in FL and he said something to this effect..."The Trinity is like water, it can hold many forms, steam/mist, liquid and solid/ice"

I think I didn't quote it exact, but that was the jist. Very simple, yet complex answer. Spot on.

But to address the OP directly, God wouldn't send his son, to take on the sins of the ENTIRE world...for the details not to matter.

Think about it.

I have no problem with understanding the concept of the Trinity. I just don't understand why some Christian complain about pagan influences, when one of the biggest is a basic tenet of most Christians.

The following churches have no problem with considering Jesus as someone greater than man, but less than God. How does that make one atheistic/agnostic?

Modern nontrinitarian groups or denominations include Unitarian Universalist Christians, Bible Students, Christadelphians, Christian Scientists, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, some groups in the Latter Day Saint movement, Oneness Pentecostals, and the United Church of God.

Nontrinitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ABikerSailor]

But He hadn't yet entered the "Pearly Gates" when He made that statement.

Besides He didn't say he was one with God, He said He and God are one.

By Him [Jesus] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, AND DWELT AMONG US, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:1-4, 14

A lot of Christians get that one confused. Yeshua taught in parables like a rabbi did (after all, He was sort of one), and the particular thing He was referring to is in the Talmud which states that around the 40 day mark of pregnancy, God places a small piece of His energy which He carved off of Himself to create your soul.

Actually, Yeshua was referring to being a small piece of God, like we all are.

I just wish more people would act like it.

Why do you use the Hebrew name if you're not Jewish?

Why do I call Him Yeshua? Because that's His name. He was born Hebrew and Jewish.

My first name is Robert. In French, it's Rober, and in Spanish, it's Roberto.

If I prefer people to call me by my real name (Robert), don't you think that I should at least try to call Yeshua by His real name?

 

[LumpyPostage]

But this discussion isn't in Hebrew. In English [and perhaps Spanish] his name is Jesus.

I think it would matter since there are all those commandments about not having other gods or worshipping false idols. Christians have to believe Jesus is God or whatever that holy ghost is unless they want to break all those commandments.

 

[ABikerSailor]

But this discussion isn't in Hebrew. In English [and perhaps Spanish] his name is Jesus.

I think it would matter since there are all those commandments about not having other gods or worshipping false idols. Christians have to believe Jesus is God or whatever that holy ghost is unless they want to break all those commandments.

Like I said, I don't like it when they use a French or Spanish or any other translation of my name, why should I do it to the Son of God?

Just disrespectful in my book.

And, by the way.........you do realize that the Torah was originally translated from Hebrew to Greek (look up the Septuegent), and then from Greek to Latin, and then finally, into English.

Ever play the game "telephone"? Try it sometime with different languages.

 

[LumpyPostage]

Tanakh has been translated into many languages. But this discussion is still in English.

 

[MarcATL]

But this discussion isn't in Hebrew. In English [and perhaps Spanish] his name is Jesus.

I think it would matter since there are all those commandments about not having other gods or worshipping false idols. Christians have to believe Jesus is God or whatever that holy ghost is unless they want to break all those commandments.

Like I said, I don't like it when they use a French or Spanish or any other translation of my name, why should I do it to the Son of God?

Just disrespectful in my book.

And, by the way.........you do realize that the Torah was originally translated from Hebrew to Greek (look up the Septuegent), and then from Greek to Latin, and then finally, into English.

Ever play the game "telephone"? Try it sometime with different languages.

Wrong!

Ever heard of scribes? Do you know the purpose of scribes and their like back in the day? These were professionals who DEDICATED their lives to copying and/or writing books/keeping records.

It took a painstakenly long time to write/copy books and/or records, at least a year per. If they made ONE mistake they'd have to start over, that would be another year...or two, depending on the length of the book/record.


Sorry...it doesn't work that way.

 

[konradv]

But this discussion isn't in Hebrew. In English [and perhaps Spanish] his name is Jesus.

I think it would matter since there are all those commandments about not having other gods or worshipping false idols. Christians have to believe Jesus is God or whatever that holy ghost is unless they want to break all those commandments.

Like I said, I don't like it when they use a French or Spanish or any other translation of my name, why should I do it to the Son of God?

Just disrespectful in my book.

And, by the way.........you do realize that the Torah was originally translated from Hebrew to Greek (look up the Septuegent), and then from Greek to Latin, and then finally, into English.

Ever play the game "telephone"? Try it sometime with different languages.

Wrong!

Ever heard of scribes? Do you know the purpose of scribes and their like back in the day? These were professionals who DEDICATED their lives to copying and/or writing books/keeping records.

It took a painstakenly long time to write/copy books and/or records, at least a year per. If they made ONE mistake they'd have to start over, that would be another year...or two, depending on the length of the book/record.


Sorry...it doesn't work that way.

While the OT has a remarkable record of accuracy over the centuries and translations to other languages, that doesn't preclude NT authors from having "made the story fit" earlier prophecies. I find it quite suspicious that the Gospel most quoted to prove Jesus' divinity was also the last one written. It's easy enough to craft a narritive when you know how it's supposed to happen. A good example is in getting the Holy Family to "The City of David" by means of a census that has no historical backup, despite the Romans' penchant for organization and record keeping!!!

 

[editec]

PS - Or more simply, in Christianity, most would agree that those who deny the Deity of Jesus Christ - that He is God, are either in a false teaching/doctrine, or possibly a cult, or don't know Him yet, or have rejected His truth.


.

And all it took for you to have that position was the slaughter of countless followers of Christ who did not take the position that Christ was GOD, Marie.

I don't know how to break the news to you but nobody's got the LOCK on what it takes to be a Christian.

No you, not your pastor, not the POPE, or the Metropolitian or me, either.

 

[ABikerSailor]

But this discussion isn't in Hebrew. In English [and perhaps Spanish] his name is Jesus.

I think it would matter since there are all those commandments about not having other gods or worshipping false idols. Christians have to believe Jesus is God or whatever that holy ghost is unless they want to break all those commandments.

Like I said, I don't like it when they use a French or Spanish or any other translation of my name, why should I do it to the Son of God?

Just disrespectful in my book.

And, by the way.........you do realize that the Torah was originally translated from Hebrew to Greek (look up the Septuegent), and then from Greek to Latin, and then finally, into English.

Ever play the game "telephone"? Try it sometime with different languages.

Wrong!

Ever heard of scribes? Do you know the purpose of scribes and their like back in the day? These were professionals who DEDICATED their lives to copying and/or writing books/keeping records.

It took a painstakenly long time to write/copy books and/or records, at least a year per. If they made ONE mistake they'd have to start over, that would be another year...or two, depending on the length of the book/record.


Sorry...it doesn't work that way.

Wrong. The scribes took down what someone told them to take down (kinda like a secretary), but, sometimes they would use other words or mistakenly omit things, which is why 2 books up to the time of the Septuegent were never exact copies.

Wanna know what the miracle of the Septuegent was? It was that 70 rabbis were put in 70 different rooms to make 70 copies translated into Greek.

ALL OF THEM matched EXACTLY.

 

[Jazmine]

Do you have to believe Jesus is God to be a good Christian?

I think there are some terms that need to be defined in this question:

What is a "good Christian" if not someone who realizes they are a sinner in need of a savior? The only kind of savior able to free us from moral enslavement is one that is outside of that enslavement. It would require a god to be in that position and have power over moral law and death. Without Jesus being God there is no Christianity, and actually there is no universe because all things were made through him, by him, and for him.

The trinity is essential for God to be a God of eternal love. Love from the beginning. Love is impossible without an object of that love, like how a father loves a son.

 

[Wingsofwind]

A lot of Christians get that one confused. Yeshua taught in parables like a rabbi did (after all, He was sort of one), and the particular thing He was referring to is in the Talmud which states that around the 40 day mark of pregnancy, God places a small piece of His energy which He carved off of Himself to create your soul.

Actually, Yeshua was referring to being a small piece of God, like we all are.

I just wish more people would act like it.

You have mentioned this twice now. I have NEVER heard of such a thing.

Also, Jesus was not conceived by two humans, Mary was a virgin. She never had se* with any man when she got pregnant. So how would your view fit with the fact that Jesus was conceived by only one human of wich was a virgin even after He was conceived?

 

[Wingsofwind]

But this discussion isn't in Hebrew. In English [and perhaps Spanish] his name is Jesus.

I think it would matter since there are all those commandments about not having other gods or worshipping false idols. Christians have to believe Jesus is God or whatever that holy ghost is unless they want to break all those commandments.

Like I said, I don't like it when they use a French or Spanish or any other translation of my name, why should I do it to the Son of God?

Just disrespectful in my book.

And, by the way.........you do realize that the Torah was originally translated from Hebrew to Greek (look up the Septuegent), and then from Greek to Latin, and then finally, into English.

Ever play the game "telephone"? Try it sometime with different languages.

Translating something is not the same as the game 'telephone'. In that game, you repeat by memory. When something is translated, it is right there to check and recheck to make sure it is done correctly. So there is no comparison to the game 'telephone' and translation of books from one language to another.