Zone1 Would Jesus support Donald Trump if alive today?

John 5:24 is in the passage where Jesus claimed equality with God.
Jesus didn't claim equality with God.

Thats what he was accused of to discredit him, by making him look completely insane.

I just want you to know that it makes me sad to know you will be digging your own grave for 1000 years going through life on earth over and over again never knowing what it is like to become a "living being". All people on earth are like seeds planted by my God. Not all seeds germinate to experience life above the earth, a fact of life, eternal life is not for everyone.

And it has absolutely nothing to with religion, nationality, race, creed, gender, or color.
 
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No. You haven't. You reject Jesus and thus you reject the one who sent him.
I reject your trinity that became a supernatural mangod and perfect human sacrifice, derp, the Antichrist, so you won't be held accountable for YOUR sins as long as you throw Jesus under the bus in the vain attempt to save your own ass from judgment for being a dick.

Pssst! It isn't working.
'
You reject that the real Jesus was just a human being crucified by Rome as a "perfect human sacrifice" a Jewish man, the Messiah, to a trinity in the name of Mithras on the Mithran cross.

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Mithraism was the secret Babylonian MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military. Every time they crucified anyone they were practicing human sacrifice to a trinity on the Mithran cross just like you do every time you go to mass in your Roman Catholic church.

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Jesus didn't claim equality with God.

Thats what he was accused of to discredit him, by making him look completely insane.

I just want you to know that it makes me sad to know you will be digging your own grave for 1000 years going through life on earth over and over again never knowing what it is like to become a "living being". All people on earth are like seeds planted by my God. Not all seeds germinate to experience life above the earth, eternal life is not for everyone.

So enjoy your delusions.
Incorrect.

According to the New Testament, Jesus explicitly claimed equality with God in nature, works, and authority, particularly in the Gospel of John. Key instances include stating "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30), asserting authority over the Sabbath (John 5:17-18), and claiming preexistence (John 8:58).

Key Evidence of Jesus' Claims to Equality
  • "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30): This statement was understood by his listeners as a direct claim to divinity.
  • Sabbath Authority (John 5:17-18): By stating, "My Father is always at his work... and I too am working," Jesus equated his work with God’s, leading to accusations of blasphemy for making himself equal to God.
  • Use of "I AM" (John 8:58): Jesus identified himself with the divine name revealed to Moses in Exodus 3:14.
  • Divine Prerogatives: Jesus claimed authority to forgive sins, judge all humanity, and receive the same honor as the Father.
Contextual Nuances
  • Reaction of Leaders: The Jewish authorities understood Jesus' statements as direct claims to divinity and sought to kill him for blasphemy.
  • Voluntary Submission: While claiming equality, Philippians 2:6-7 notes that Jesus did not grasp this equality but took the form of a servant.
  • Functional Distinction: Jesus also stated, "the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28), which is often interpreted as referring to his functional role during the incarnation, rather than a lack of divine nature.
 
I reject your trinity that became a supernatural mangod and perfect human sacrifice, derp, the Antichrist, so you won't be held accountable for YOUR sins as long as you throw Jesus under the bus in the vain attempt to save your own ass from judgment for being a dick.

Pssst! It isn't working.
'
You reject that the real Jesus was just a man crucified by Rome as a "perfect human sacrifice" a Jewish man, the Messiah, to a trinity in the name of Mithras on the Mithran cross.

Mithraism was the secret Babylonian MYSTERY RELIGION of the Roman government and military. Every time they crucified anyone they were practicing human sacrifice to a trinity on the Mithran cross just like you do every time you go to mass in your Roman church.

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How do you explain Jesus refusing the Pharisees request for him to rebuke his disciples for praising him like God?

Yes, Jesus explicitly refused the Pharisees' request to rebuke his disciples. In Luke 19:39-40, when Pharisees told Him to silence the disciples who were loudly praising Him during the triumphal entry into Jerusalem, Jesus responded that if the people were silent, "the stones would immediately cry out".

Key details regarding this event include:
  • The Request: The Pharisees felt threatened by the Messianic praise ("Blessed is the King") and demanded Jesus stop the disciples.
  • The Response: Jesus defended the disciples' praise, highlighting that acknowledging Him is necessary, and nature itself would testify if humanity did not.
  • Context: This was part of a larger pattern where Pharisees attempted to stop Jesus’ ministry, which He consistently rejected.
Additionally, in instances regarding Sabbath law (e.g., plucking grain), Jesus defended His disciples against Pharisaical accusations rather than rebuking them, often challenging the Pharisees' understanding of the law instead.
 
How do you explain Jesus refusing the Pharisees request for him to rebuke his disciples for praising him like God?

When the disciples called Jesus Lord it amounted to calling Jesus Sir. Simple as that. Damn.
 
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You haven't gotten one single thing right. You've completely bastardized the NT to justify your perversions. You are not credible. According to John 5:24 I already have eternal life and you are destined to be judged. You're a joke.
We all have eternal life as part of the human natural existence and religion has nothing to do with it. The afterlife is not sectarian.
 
According to the New Testament, Jesus explicitly claimed equality with God in nature, works, and authority,

they claimed all in the heavens are equal and is necessary to accomplish the heavenly goal to triumph over evil for the judgement to be granted for admission - jesus to accomplish as they may have to free their spirit while still alive is the point of any religion for the same purpose of admission to the everlasting.

there is no particular god everyone in the heavens are as described whichever title they may chose.
 
Jesus didn't claim equality with God.

Thats what he was accused of to discredit him, by making him look completely insane.
How do you explain the gospels making a concerted effort to show that Jesus claimed and behaved as if he were equal to God?


The Gospel of Luke records several instances and claims where Jesus acts, speaks, or is described in ways that present Him as having divine authority and equality with God, such as forgiving sins, having power over nature, and accepting worship, leading to the understanding (especially in later Christian theology) of His divinity and fulfillment of prophecy. While some interpret these actions as Jesus demonstrating God's power through Him, others see them as direct claims of being God, with Luke presenting Jesus as Lord, Messiah, and Son of God.

Key Examples in Luke:
  • Forgiveness of Sins (Luke 5:20-24): Jesus forgives a paralyzed man's sins, prompting onlookers to question, "Who can forgive sins but God alone?".
  • Authority Over the Sabbath (Luke 6:5): Jesus declares, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath," asserting a divine prerogative.
  • Accepting Worship (Luke 24:52): After His resurrection, Jesus' disciples worship Him, a response consistent with divine reverence.
  • Claiming Divine Sonship (Luke 22:69-71): Before the Sanhedrin, Jesus affirms His identity as the Son of God, which they perceive as blasphemy.
  • Fulfilling Prophecy (Luke 4:16-21): Jesus reads from Isaiah, applying prophecies about the Lord's anointed Messiah to Himself, indicating He is God's representative with divine power.
Interpretations:
  • Divinity/Exaltation: Some see these as moments Luke highlights Jesus' inherent divinity or His exaltation to divinity (e.g., at His birth, baptism, resurrection).
  • Messianic Authority: Others view these as Jesus demonstrating the authority and power of God vested in Him as the Messiah, the "Lord of all".
In essence, Luke portrays Jesus as more than a prophet, presenting Him with divine attributes and authority, which Christians interpret as evidence of His equality with God.



The Gospel of John records Jesus making claims and performing actions that his Jewish contemporaries understood as claims of divinity, leading them to accuse him of blasphemy for making himself equal with God, such as calling God "My Father" and working on the Sabbath as God does. Key instances include Jesus stating, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am at work," and "The Father and I are one," asserting shared nature, works, power, and judgment with God.

Key Claims & Actions in John's Gospel:
  • "My Father is working, and I am working" (John 5:17): Jesus's statement after healing on the Sabbath implied he shared God's continuous work, a claim interpreted as making himself equal with God, infuriating Jewish leaders.
  • "The Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing" (John 5:19): This shows unity in action, with the Son mirroring the Father's works (healing, judging, giving life).
  • "The Father loves the Son and shows him all he does" (John 5:20): Demonstrates divine access and shared knowledge.
  • "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30): A direct assertion of unity with God.
  • "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9): Claims to reveal God's very essence.
Jewish Interpretation & Reaction:
  • The Jews understood Jesus' use of "My Father" as a claim to a unique, divine relationship, not merely being a spiritual child.
  • They saw his actions on the Sabbath (which God "never rests") and his statements about his relationship with God as making himself God's equal, a capital offense.
Miracles as Divine Acts:
  • Jesus' miracles (feeding multitudes, calming storms, raising the dead, walking on water) were seen by followers and critics alike as acts only God could perform, further underscoring claims of divinity.



The Gospel of Mark records Jesus performing actions and making statements that demonstrate divine authority, leading many to interpret these as claims to equality with God, such as forgiving sins (a power only God has), controlling nature, and accepting worship, culminating in his affirmation before the High Priest that he is the "Son of Man" coming on the clouds, which was understood as blasphemy and claiming divine status. While he doesn't use the explicit "I AM" phrases of John, Mark portrays Jesus' identity as God through his deeds and his authoritative claims.

Key Examples in Mark:
  • Forgiving Sins (Mark 2:5-10): Jesus tells a paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven," prompting religious leaders to ask, "Who can forgive sins but God alone?".
  • Authority Over Nature (Mark 4:35-41): Jesus calms a violent storm, leading his disciples to ask, "Who is this? Even the wind and the sea obey him!".
  • Power Over Demons (Mark 1:23-28): Jesus casts out an unclean spirit, showing unique power and authority.
  • "Son of Man" at Trial (Mark 14:61-64): When asked if he is the Messiah, Jesus responds by quoting Daniel 7:13-14, saying they will see the "Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven," a direct claim to divine authority.
How Mark Presents Jesus' Divinity:
  • Miraculous Deeds: Healing the sick, casting out demons, and calming storms are presented as acts of divine power.
  • Authority & Obedience: Jesus demonstrates authority over the Law and demands obedience, actions reserved for God.
  • Messianic Identity: Mark emphasizes Jesus as God's Son and the promised Messiah, applying Old Testament prophecies (like Isaiah 40:3) to him.
In essence, Mark builds a case for Jesus' divinity through his actions and claims, even if he uses the title "Son of Man" more often, showcasing his unique status as God's Son with divine power.



The Gospel of Matthew records Jesus performing actions and making claims that are interpreted as signs of divinity, such as accepting worship (Matt. 28:9, 17), claiming unique authority over the Law and judgment, and his resurrection, but he doesn't explicitly say "I am God"; rather, Matthew emphasizes his role as the divine Son of God and New Moses, showing his power and connection to God. Key examples include his post-resurrection appearance where disciples worship him and his commission to baptize "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," implying shared divinity.

Actions & Claims in Matthew Indicating Divinity:
  • ** Worship:** Disciples worship him after the resurrection (Matt. 28:9, 17), an act usually reserved for God.
  • ** Authority:** He claims authority over the Sabbath, forgiveness of sins, and judging the world, roles belonging to God.
  • ** Son of God:** The title "Son of God" is used, culminating in the centurion's declaration after the crucifixion: "Surely this man was the Son of God!" (Matt. 27:54).
  • ** "I am" Statements:** While in Matthew 26:64 Jesus says "you have said so," implying the divine name (I AM) in response to the high priest, unlike John's Gospel, he doesn't explicitly claim deity in the same way, according to some scholars.
  • ** Future Return:** He predicts his glorious return in power, sending angels to gather the elect, an act of divine authority (Matt. 24:29-31).
  • ** "All authority...":** In Matthew 28:18, Jesus claims all authority in heaven and earth after his resurrection, a divine attribute.
Matthew's Emphasis:
  • Matthew portrays Jesus as the New Moses, fulfilling Old Testament prophecies, and establishing a new law for salvation.
  • While demonstrating divine attributes, Matthew focuses on Jesus as the promised Messiah and Son of God, establishing his identity through his actions and unique authority.
 
When the disciples called Jesus Lord it amounted to calling Jesus Sir. Simple as that. Damn.
The Gospel of Luke records several instances and claims where Jesus acts, speaks, or is described in ways that present Him as having divine authority and equality with God, such as forgiving sins, having power over nature, and accepting worship, leading to the understanding (especially in later Christian theology) of His divinity and fulfillment of prophecy. While some interpret these actions as Jesus demonstrating God's power through Him, others see them as direct claims of being God, with Luke presenting Jesus as Lord, Messiah, and Son of God.

Key Examples in Luke:
  • Forgiveness of Sins (Luke 5:20-24): Jesus forgives a paralyzed man's sins, prompting onlookers to question, "Who can forgive sins but God alone?".
  • Authority Over the Sabbath (Luke 6:5): Jesus declares, "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath," asserting a divine prerogative.
  • Accepting Worship (Luke 24:52): After His resurrection, Jesus' disciples worship Him, a response consistent with divine reverence.
  • Claiming Divine Sonship (Luke 22:69-71): Before the Sanhedrin, Jesus affirms His identity as the Son of God, which they perceive as blasphemy.
  • Fulfilling Prophecy (Luke 4:16-21): Jesus reads from Isaiah, applying prophecies about the Lord's anointed Messiah to Himself, indicating He is God's representative with divine power.
Interpretations:
  • Divinity/Exaltation: Some see these as moments Luke highlights Jesus' inherent divinity or His exaltation to divinity (e.g., at His birth, baptism, resurrection).
  • Messianic Authority: Others view these as Jesus demonstrating the authority and power of God vested in Him as the Messiah, the "Lord of all".
In essence, Luke portrays Jesus as more than a prophet, presenting Him with divine attributes and authority, which Christians interpret as evidence of His equality with God.



The Gospel of John records Jesus making claims and performing actions that his Jewish contemporaries understood as claims of divinity, leading them to accuse him of blasphemy for making himself equal with God, such as calling God "My Father" and working on the Sabbath as God does. Key instances include Jesus stating, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am at work," and "The Father and I are one," asserting shared nature, works, power, and judgment with God.

Key Claims & Actions in John's Gospel:
  • "My Father is working, and I am working" (John 5:17): Jesus's statement after healing on the Sabbath implied he shared God's continuous work, a claim interpreted as making himself equal with God, infuriating Jewish leaders.
  • "The Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing" (John 5:19): This shows unity in action, with the Son mirroring the Father's works (healing, judging, giving life).
  • "The Father loves the Son and shows him all he does" (John 5:20): Demonstrates divine access and shared knowledge.
  • "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30): A direct assertion of unity with God.
  • "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9): Claims to reveal God's very essence.
Jewish Interpretation & Reaction:
  • The Jews understood Jesus' use of "My Father" as a claim to a unique, divine relationship, not merely being a spiritual child.
  • They saw his actions on the Sabbath (which God "never rests") and his statements about his relationship with God as making himself God's equal, a capital offense.
Miracles as Divine Acts:
  • Jesus' miracles (feeding multitudes, calming storms, raising the dead, walking on water) were seen by followers and critics alike as acts only God could perform, further underscoring claims of divinity.



The Gospel of Mark records Jesus performing actions and making statements that demonstrate divine authority, leading many to interpret these as claims to equality with God, such as forgiving sins (a power only God has), controlling nature, and accepting worship, culminating in his affirmation before the High Priest that he is the "Son of Man" coming on the clouds, which was understood as blasphemy and claiming divine status. While he doesn't use the explicit "I AM" phrases of John, Mark portrays Jesus' identity as God through his deeds and his authoritative claims.

Key Examples in Mark:
  • Forgiving Sins (Mark 2:5-10): Jesus tells a paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven," prompting religious leaders to ask, "Who can forgive sins but God alone?".
  • Authority Over Nature (Mark 4:35-41): Jesus calms a violent storm, leading his disciples to ask, "Who is this? Even the wind and the sea obey him!".
  • Power Over Demons (Mark 1:23-28): Jesus casts out an unclean spirit, showing unique power and authority.
  • "Son of Man" at Trial (Mark 14:61-64): When asked if he is the Messiah, Jesus responds by quoting Daniel 7:13-14, saying they will see the "Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven," a direct claim to divine authority.
How Mark Presents Jesus' Divinity:
  • Miraculous Deeds: Healing the sick, casting out demons, and calming storms are presented as acts of divine power.
  • Authority & Obedience: Jesus demonstrates authority over the Law and demands obedience, actions reserved for God.
  • Messianic Identity: Mark emphasizes Jesus as God's Son and the promised Messiah, applying Old Testament prophecies (like Isaiah 40:3) to him.
In essence, Mark builds a case for Jesus' divinity through his actions and claims, even if he uses the title "Son of Man" more often, showcasing his unique status as God's Son with divine power.



The Gospel of Matthew records Jesus performing actions and making claims that are interpreted as signs of divinity, such as accepting worship (Matt. 28:9, 17), claiming unique authority over the Law and judgment, and his resurrection, but he doesn't explicitly say "I am God"; rather, Matthew emphasizes his role as the divine Son of God and New Moses, showing his power and connection to God. Key examples include his post-resurrection appearance where disciples worship him and his commission to baptize "in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," implying shared divinity.

Actions & Claims in Matthew Indicating Divinity:
  • ** Worship:** Disciples worship him after the resurrection (Matt. 28:9, 17), an act usually reserved for God.
  • ** Authority:** He claims authority over the Sabbath, forgiveness of sins, and judging the world, roles belonging to God.
  • ** Son of God:** The title "Son of God" is used, culminating in the centurion's declaration after the crucifixion: "Surely this man was the Son of God!" (Matt. 27:54).
  • ** "I am" Statements:** While in Matthew 26:64 Jesus says "you have said so," implying the divine name (I AM) in response to the high priest, unlike John's Gospel, he doesn't explicitly claim deity in the same way, according to some scholars.
  • ** Future Return:** He predicts his glorious return in power, sending angels to gather the elect, an act of divine authority (Matt. 24:29-31).
  • ** "All authority...":** In Matthew 28:18, Jesus claims all authority in heaven and earth after his resurrection, a divine attribute.
Matthew's Emphasis:
  • Matthew portrays Jesus as the New Moses, fulfilling Old Testament prophecies, and establishing a new law for salvation.
  • While demonstrating divine attributes, Matthew focuses on Jesus as the promised Messiah and Son of God, establishing his identity through his actions and unique authority.
 
How do you explain the gospels making a concerted effort to show that Jesus claimed and behaved as if he were equal to God?
What?

Because he forgave sins? Like anyone can and does forgive those who sin against them?


Lame.
 
My Dear Sweet Dingbot,


If you heard and believed you wouldn't be an idolator unless sin is your deliberate choice.

And Jesus said this to people who still had bodies. And what of those who don't hear his word? They are judged according to their words and deeds when they die. It wasn't written down there but thats where the light of intelligence either illuminates or confounds. John 5:24 does not stand alone. Your hysterical responses show there is no light or life in you. Not even enough intelligence to put together the teachings of Jesus in a rational and coherent WAY.

Believing doesn't result in immediate spiritual life. Liar. Devils believe. "Belief" without works is as lifeless as a corpse without life, flesh without blood. Life is in the blood, in the doing.

And you have done nothing to save your soul from the deeper implications of present events.

But don't get me wrong! I fully support your right to toss your mind into Gehenna, a.k.a. Hell.



Love,

Secular Jesus
And there it is, another confirmation that you believe yourself to be Messianic.

Belief is not faith.

A daredevil acrobat walks across Niagara Falls on a rope and comes back. Then he does it again, pushing a wheelbarrow in front of him, never missing a step. He asks the crowd, "How many of you believe I can do that again, this time with you in the wheelbarrow?". Hands go up. Then he says, "Which of you will get in the wheelbarrow?"

Belief says, "Yes, you can do it" while faith says, "I'll get in the wheelbarrow". Faith is commitment, faith is trust, faith produces obedience and works. Without faith, works are dead and worse than useless because they lead someone to think they will be justified by them when they stand before God, while justification is found ONLY in Yeshua, God become man.
 
What?

Because he forgave sins? Like anyone can and does forgive those who sin against them?


Lame.
Nope, that's where you are caught in the trap. Yeshua forgave sin, NOT just those against Him. Now, of course, you could admit that the sin WAS against Him because He was God in the flesh and all sin is against God. Tell us, what sin did the man commit against Jesus?

Which are you willing to do, admit He forgave sin not against Himself, or He forgave sin because He was God and all sin is against Him?
 
Which are you willing to do, admit He forgave sin not against Himself, or He forgave sin because He was God and all sin is against Him?
Jesus forgave those who sinned against him, but that does not mean that God forgave them and Jesus taught people what was right and wrong and by doing so those who HEARD his teaching, and acted on it were forgiven by God. Without repentance there is no forgiveness.

If I had not come and spoken with you you would not be guilty of sin but because you say "We see" your guilt remains. If you admitted your errors, I would say, your sins are forgiven.

That would not be me acting like God. That would be the power of God working through me.
 
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Jesus forgave those who sinned against him, but that does not mean that God forgave them and Jesus taught people what was right and wrong and by doing so those who HEARD his teaching, and acted on it were forgiven by God. Without repentance there is no forgiveness.

If I had not come and spoken with you you would not be guilty of sin but because you say "We see" your guilt remains. If you admitted your errors, I would say, your sins are forgiven.
No, Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven", NOT "I forgive you for the sins you committed against me". Sorry, you can't get around that without rewriting the whole thing from your imagination.

Those around Him knew what He was saying because they didn't for a moment think He was only talking about things done against Him, they KNEW He was taking God's authority for Himself, just as we know it from the Scriptures that you ignore.
 
hose around Him knew what He was saying because they didn't for a moment think He was only talking about things done against Him, they KNEW He was taking God's authority for Himself, just as we know it from the Scriptures that you ignore.
Every time someone was healed after HEARING Jesus teach, a sign of forgiveness, Jesus said "YOUR FAITH HAS MADE YOU WHOLE". He never claimed equality with God which would make him insane, he clearly said that God was working through him, a Jewish man.

When he said, "Your sins are forgiven" he said that after he asked them if they had faith, not that he was God, but that God was merciful.
 
Every time someone was healed after HEARING Jesus teach, a sign of forgiveness, Jesus said "YOUR FAITH HAS MADE YOU WHOLE". He never claimed anything other than that God was working through him, a man.
Jesus forgave a man's sin, something those around Him knew immediately was a claim of having God's own authority. You attempting to deflect onto other things does nothing to help your cause.

Have you figured out yet whether it was 2,000 years or 7 1/2? You can't seem to decide.
 
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Have you figured out yet whether it was 2,000 years or 7 1/2? You can't seem to decide.
I'll tell you that when you figure out whether Jesus taught believers to worship a trinity and celebrate human sacrifice and cannibalism or if he taught people the only right WAY to understand the Law and do it that fulfills the promise of abundant blessings and eternal life.
 
I'll tell you that as soon as you figure out whether Jesus intended people to worship a trinity and celebrate human sacrifice and cannibalism or if he taught people the only right WAY to understand the Law and do it that fulfills the promise of abundant blessings and eternal life.
Nope, you made the statement that contained an obvious (to anyone paying attention) contradiction and have refused to state which one you meant.
 
Nope, you made the statement that contained an obvious (to anyone paying attention) contradiction and have refused to state which one you meant.
lol.

In other words you have no faith. You understand neither scripture nor the power of my God.

:safetocomeoutff:


 
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