turzovka
Gold Member
- Nov 20, 2012
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A great barrier to anyone exercising faith is that they cannot accept a good God would allow so much suffering on earth. And by remaining in dissent they often refuse to consider all that has been manifested in history which cries out the God of Abraham is God. To many, these troubling affairs must first be satisfied or explained before they draw any nearer.
The following allegory tries to demonstrate the need for trials and suffering. A marriage is arranged between you and the most adorable girl, one who is kind and delightful beyond all measure. But she is forced to be your bride, she is given no choice in the matter. Similarly, in a second scenario, this same girl by chance finds you along the path of life and instead of being obliged to be your bride, instead falls in love with you and desires you for herself. She makes many efforts to please you and willfully suffers for you, fails often but seeks forgiveness. Which of these two would give you the greater joy? Perhaps when God said He created us in His own image that is partially what He was referring to? He, too, prefers one who chooses to love Him and sacrifice for Him and take risks, as opposed to creating a being incapable of making free will choices to want to love Him. As given in Scripture, Our Lord says man is higher than the angels for this very reason of free will. Our earthly trials merit these greater virtues and are more pleasing to God.
Life is a trial, a test, a means to an end. There is no honor if it requires no effort and no faith on our part. If that were the case, God may as well have just bypassed humanity and earth and made us all like angels incapable of sinning but also no valor in our beings. God allows suffering and evil to bring out a greater good in us. Another saint explained God also allows the suffering of the innocents to atone for the souls of great sinners. It will only be revealed how it all worked together in the hereafter. We are called upon to carry our cross and share in the sufferings Jesus bore for us.
Sirach 2:1-6
My son, when you come to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for trials. Be sincere of heart and steadfast, undisturbed in time of adversity. Cling to him, forsake Him not, thus your future will be great. Accept whatever befalls you, in crushing misfortune be patient; For in fire gold is tested, and worthy men in the crucible of humiliation.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why must there be a hell, I submit, surpasses all mysteries of life, death and eternity. It seems apparent that answer is not for man to know this side of the grave and is as God so intended. Has not enough been revealed to us in order to know God exists, what He asks of us, and what He promises to those willing to accept it and try to live by the gospel? What right does one have to demand the answers to all of their questions before they accept all else which has been revealed? Is that not the great sin of the pride of man? Is this not where our faith is truly tested? “My ways are not your ways, sayeth the Lord.”
C.S. Lewis imagined what hell might be like in his intriguing novel “The Great Divorce.” A fantasy account of souls in heaven and in hell conversing with one another. In two of the final three chapters of this book Lewis suggests an explanation for hell, (my crude paraphrase) that being that nothing defiled can enter the kingdom of heaven (also declared in the Book of Revelation 21:27). God is pure holiness and heaven is immaculate and therefore cannot contain even the slightest defilement of even one single sin. (cue: a need for purgatory as well) So if those who rejected God cannot let go of their bad ways or selfish thoughts (as Lewis suggests is the condition of a soul in hell), then the heavens are compelled to repel the very idea that such a soul or condition could ever be allowed to defile the immaculate purity of God's kingdom. Such a man has rejected God so utterly on earth he cannot let go of his defiance or objection to God’s justice --- and God cannot allow that unrepentant soul’s present state to defile the pure holiness of heaven. The soul in hell says God’s punishments are unjust and demands some level of mercy because God created him, but even his demands are part of his unholiness. He expects God to change before he does. We are at an impasse.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Perhaps no one can say why there has to be an eternal hell for some souls, but I do have a question for those who may reject God for that reason. I am wondering now. But I believe God loves you enough where perhaps if you are not happy with the idea of being given the gift of eternal life because the possibility of hell also exists, then maybe you can appeal in a prayer? Ask God if at the moment you pass from this world, might he just turn you into a rock instead? Pure oblivion, no pain, no consciousness, no nothing. In that way you will not risk any suffering in hell -- which you never asked for, by the way, when He created you. Ok, that’s true. However, in so doing, neither will you ever be given the opportunity to know heaven or see your loved ones again or have any consciousness. That would have to be the bargain.
I am curious to know if this disturbance to the idea of hell is a primary reason many choose to not to think about God very much or do much about it? Perhaps understandable to a degree, but why would anyone still not be fascinated, if not obsessed, with what life and death is all about and what may lie ahead? The evidence can be found in so many places, in so many ways about this God which so many want to believe in yet keep at a safe distance just the same. The evidence for Jesus, Mary, the saints, the miracles, heaven, hell, purgatory, and redemption all can be known. I submit Christianity has given far more to this world than all of its failures combined. God can only work with sinners so is it fair to point only to the failures of this faith and ignore its virtues when judging the message and works?
God’s promise to the world is that heaven awaits those who seek Him, yet if you choose to be filled with pride and live this life only for yourself, its pleasures and its comforts --- and in so doing ignore His calling, even His existence, then perhaps an awful fate is possible? It is a risk, granted, but is it unfair? Would one prefer to be turned into a rock instead? Maybe God will honor your free will and grant such a way out? But who would choose anything so dour and final as that when there is so much to hope for and be grateful for? Nothing unfair or unloving about it in the least.
“God reveals His covenant to those who fear Him.”
The following allegory tries to demonstrate the need for trials and suffering. A marriage is arranged between you and the most adorable girl, one who is kind and delightful beyond all measure. But she is forced to be your bride, she is given no choice in the matter. Similarly, in a second scenario, this same girl by chance finds you along the path of life and instead of being obliged to be your bride, instead falls in love with you and desires you for herself. She makes many efforts to please you and willfully suffers for you, fails often but seeks forgiveness. Which of these two would give you the greater joy? Perhaps when God said He created us in His own image that is partially what He was referring to? He, too, prefers one who chooses to love Him and sacrifice for Him and take risks, as opposed to creating a being incapable of making free will choices to want to love Him. As given in Scripture, Our Lord says man is higher than the angels for this very reason of free will. Our earthly trials merit these greater virtues and are more pleasing to God.
Life is a trial, a test, a means to an end. There is no honor if it requires no effort and no faith on our part. If that were the case, God may as well have just bypassed humanity and earth and made us all like angels incapable of sinning but also no valor in our beings. God allows suffering and evil to bring out a greater good in us. Another saint explained God also allows the suffering of the innocents to atone for the souls of great sinners. It will only be revealed how it all worked together in the hereafter. We are called upon to carry our cross and share in the sufferings Jesus bore for us.
Sirach 2:1-6
My son, when you come to serve the Lord, prepare yourself for trials. Be sincere of heart and steadfast, undisturbed in time of adversity. Cling to him, forsake Him not, thus your future will be great. Accept whatever befalls you, in crushing misfortune be patient; For in fire gold is tested, and worthy men in the crucible of humiliation.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Why must there be a hell, I submit, surpasses all mysteries of life, death and eternity. It seems apparent that answer is not for man to know this side of the grave and is as God so intended. Has not enough been revealed to us in order to know God exists, what He asks of us, and what He promises to those willing to accept it and try to live by the gospel? What right does one have to demand the answers to all of their questions before they accept all else which has been revealed? Is that not the great sin of the pride of man? Is this not where our faith is truly tested? “My ways are not your ways, sayeth the Lord.”
C.S. Lewis imagined what hell might be like in his intriguing novel “The Great Divorce.” A fantasy account of souls in heaven and in hell conversing with one another. In two of the final three chapters of this book Lewis suggests an explanation for hell, (my crude paraphrase) that being that nothing defiled can enter the kingdom of heaven (also declared in the Book of Revelation 21:27). God is pure holiness and heaven is immaculate and therefore cannot contain even the slightest defilement of even one single sin. (cue: a need for purgatory as well) So if those who rejected God cannot let go of their bad ways or selfish thoughts (as Lewis suggests is the condition of a soul in hell), then the heavens are compelled to repel the very idea that such a soul or condition could ever be allowed to defile the immaculate purity of God's kingdom. Such a man has rejected God so utterly on earth he cannot let go of his defiance or objection to God’s justice --- and God cannot allow that unrepentant soul’s present state to defile the pure holiness of heaven. The soul in hell says God’s punishments are unjust and demands some level of mercy because God created him, but even his demands are part of his unholiness. He expects God to change before he does. We are at an impasse.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Perhaps no one can say why there has to be an eternal hell for some souls, but I do have a question for those who may reject God for that reason. I am wondering now. But I believe God loves you enough where perhaps if you are not happy with the idea of being given the gift of eternal life because the possibility of hell also exists, then maybe you can appeal in a prayer? Ask God if at the moment you pass from this world, might he just turn you into a rock instead? Pure oblivion, no pain, no consciousness, no nothing. In that way you will not risk any suffering in hell -- which you never asked for, by the way, when He created you. Ok, that’s true. However, in so doing, neither will you ever be given the opportunity to know heaven or see your loved ones again or have any consciousness. That would have to be the bargain.
I am curious to know if this disturbance to the idea of hell is a primary reason many choose to not to think about God very much or do much about it? Perhaps understandable to a degree, but why would anyone still not be fascinated, if not obsessed, with what life and death is all about and what may lie ahead? The evidence can be found in so many places, in so many ways about this God which so many want to believe in yet keep at a safe distance just the same. The evidence for Jesus, Mary, the saints, the miracles, heaven, hell, purgatory, and redemption all can be known. I submit Christianity has given far more to this world than all of its failures combined. God can only work with sinners so is it fair to point only to the failures of this faith and ignore its virtues when judging the message and works?
God’s promise to the world is that heaven awaits those who seek Him, yet if you choose to be filled with pride and live this life only for yourself, its pleasures and its comforts --- and in so doing ignore His calling, even His existence, then perhaps an awful fate is possible? It is a risk, granted, but is it unfair? Would one prefer to be turned into a rock instead? Maybe God will honor your free will and grant such a way out? But who would choose anything so dour and final as that when there is so much to hope for and be grateful for? Nothing unfair or unloving about it in the least.
“God reveals His covenant to those who fear Him.”
