Does Christianity justify racism?

[PostmodernProph]

In what way is this story an analogy?

That is my interpretation of the quote. Jesus always spoke in parables or analogies to non disciples.

That was kinda dumb, even his hired help couldn't understand his parables.

I'm trying to remember a time when the disciples were given a parable or analogy and did not get the moral behind it. Drawing a blank, though. All of Christ's stories and analogies were pretty simple and based on what amounted to "pop culture" of that time. WE have trouble understanding them, perhaps, since we're not immersed in that particular culture, but I don't recall anyone in the Bible going, "Huh?"

Mark 4

10 And when He was alone, those who were about Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable.

11 And He said unto them, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God; but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables,

12 that, ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive, and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

13 And He said unto them, “Know you not this parable? And how then will ye know all parables?


Mark 4 - The Parable of the Sower - Again Jesus - Bible Gateway

Does it make sense to speak in parables when your own hired help doesn't understand them? Why not just say what you mean?

the parables in the Bible are all followed by an explanation....as it says in Mark 4, "he explained everything".....

 

[Cecilie1200]

In what way is this story an analogy?

That is my interpretation of the quote. Jesus always spoke in parables or analogies to non disciples.

That was kinda dumb, even his hired help couldn't understand his parables.

I'm trying to remember a time when the disciples were given a parable or analogy and did not get the moral behind it. Drawing a blank, though. All of Christ's stories and analogies were pretty simple and based on what amounted to "pop culture" of that time. WE have trouble understanding them, perhaps, since we're not immersed in that particular culture, but I don't recall anyone in the Bible going, "Huh?"

Mark 4

10 And when He was alone, those who were about Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable.

11 And He said unto them, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God; but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables,

12 that, ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive, and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

13 And He said unto them, “Know you not this parable? And how then will ye know all parables?


Mark 4 - The Parable of the Sower - Again Jesus - Bible Gateway

Does it make sense to speak in parables when your own hired help doesn't understand them? Why not just say what you mean?

Doesn't look to me like they didn't understand the stories. Looks to me like they didn't understand the teaching benefits of talking in stories.

 

[Cecilie1200]

In what way is this story an analogy?

That is my interpretation of the quote. Jesus always spoke in parables or analogies to non disciples.

That was kinda dumb, even his hired help couldn't understand his parables.

I'm trying to remember a time when the disciples were given a parable or analogy and did not get the moral behind it. Drawing a blank, though. All of Christ's stories and analogies were pretty simple and based on what amounted to "pop culture" of that time. WE have trouble understanding them, perhaps, since we're not immersed in that particular culture, but I don't recall anyone in the Bible going, "Huh?"

Mark 4

10 And when He was alone, those who were about Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable.

11 And He said unto them, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God; but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables,

12 that, ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive, and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

13 And He said unto them, “Know you not this parable? And how then will ye know all parables?


Mark 4 - The Parable of the Sower - Again Jesus - Bible Gateway

Does it make sense to speak in parables when your own hired help doesn't understand them? Why not just say what you mean?

the parables in the Bible are all followed by an explanation....as it says in Mark 4, "he explained everything".....

Have you ever read Aesop's Fables? They're all followed by the moral of the story. Doesn't mean you didn't already get the point. Just because someone inexperienced at teaching doesn't understand the benefits of teaching in stories doesn't mean they didn't understand the story itself. I was completely serious and specific when I said I don't recall any of Jesus' stories when the disciples went, "Huh?" about the meaning of it. Your own quote just demonstrated Jesus saying exactly what I did: one teaches in stories because they're easily understood, even by the uneducated and uninitiated.

 

[MaxGrit]

Don't be silly. What does being happy to meet people of other faiths have to do with the fact that diametrically opposed faiths can never be a unifying force and any friendly interactions with people who your faith teaches are hell bound can only be superficial at best. I know many people who are capable of smiling in other peoples faces while secretly loathing them at the same time. Avoiding points of contention with people of other faiths is hardly an expression of good will or a demonstration of living in peace.

It's not being "happy to meet people". I was speaking of people who were a part of my life. For example, the Hindu was a former student of mine, and then later my daughter's college roommate.

Second, Catholicism doesn't teach anyone being "hell bound." The teaching is that mortal sin (defined as knowing full well one is sinning against God and rejecting Him and His ways) leaves on in danger of hell. Catholic philosophy is more or less, God sends no one to hell--people choose to go there. God is not going to force those who hate Him and reject Him into his kingdom. Nor do Catholics define hell as fire and brimstone--but as a complete absence of God. (And Catholics are the largest denomination of Christians, so that makes quite a lot of Christians who are thinking others are bound for hell.)

As far as avoiding contention on points of faith...grin. I come from an extended family of Catholics, Protestants, and atheists. We felt comfortable discussing both politics and religion--sometimes even at dinner!

You are picturing me as nodding at people of other faiths. I was speaking of family and dear friends who are (or were) a living, breathing part of my life.

You are a nice pussycat.

I talk about Jesus Christ when I meet family. Atheist family members are frustrating to teach. Denies God and doesn't believe they are going to Hell without Jesus Christ as their savior.

 

[Meriweather]

I talk about Jesus Christ when I meet family. Atheist family members are frustrating to teach.

I find a recurring theme among atheists is that God does not act how they expect God to act.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Of course not. Christianity does not promote racism at all. You do not understand the context of why Jesus said this. The woman who came to him was a Baal Worshiper. She worshiped Baal - in the region of Tyre and Sidon in that day if you didn't worship Baal you'd be killed. She didn't have a choice in the matter - furthermore, the Jews were surely amazed that Jesus went there! This wasn't a place the Jews would go near as the Jews feared the LORD and would not mingle with Baal worshipers.
Dogs - would have been another word for the wicked. Look at Revelation 21:14,15
it is written:
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
-Revelation 21: 14, 15
_________________
It had nothing to do with racism. God loves you. He didn't send Jesus into the world to condemn you but rather to save you! Read Romans 10:9,10. Its Good news! What Jesus did for that Baal worshiping woman - because of her faith - and her willingness to use her faith to believe on him rather than a baal god who could do nothing for her daughter - she received her answer and Jesus had mercy upon her! What He did for her? He will do for you today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Call upon the name of the LORD and be saved today. Today is the day of salvation. TODAY.

I didn't read all of your post but if what you are saying is true ("she was a Baal worshipper,") WHY DID SHE FIRST CALL JESUS "LORD" AND HE STILL CALLED HER A DOG?

Someone is lying.

Excuse me? Did you read Revelation 21:14,15 that I posted to explain what he meant or didn't you? Here it is again:

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
-Revelation 21: 14, 15

The bible refers to Baal worshipers, sorcerers as dogs. It wasn't a compliment. Listen, she called him Lord because she heard about him and wanted his help - she was desperate to get her daughter delivered of a demon - she lived in a center of a culture ( geo location) that was full of baal worship - she had no choice in the matter - she probably would have been put to death had she refuse - she came to Jesus for help and thus called him, Lord, and addressed him respectfully - even when he referred to her as a dog - she replied even the puppies were permitted crumbs that fell off the table - and it was at that point that Jesus recognized her determination NOT TO BE OFFENDED and to lay hold of her miracle - she then was told she had great faith - so I believe her daughters deliverance was the same day of her salvation.

Read Revelation 21: 14, 15 and realize when the bible refers to people as dogs? It isn't a good thing. Alright? It isn't a good thing. Yet it has nothing - absolutely nothing to do with racism. I hope this explains it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Nice try, Sparkles, but this is what you get from someone who wants to preach about a faith he doesn't share: ignorance and gibberish.

If you can't see the difference between God Almighty testing a person's faith in Him, and another human being damaging one's faith in God, then you're either mentally challenged or inhibited by an agenda.

So, you are saying that Jesus was telling a lie when he called her a dog?

No, he meant what he said.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The story is about faith, not racism. I once listened to someone who was pointing out how sometimes humor in the original language is lost in the translations--especially when there are no facial expressions to help us out.

Imagine parents and children sitting down to dinner, and parents placing food on the children's plates--not in the dog's bowl. The parents want the children to eat the nutritious food. The children are not impressed, but having been told to clean their plates...they begin to pass bits of food to the dog. The adults might not give the food to the dog directly, but the reality is that it is going to end up in the dog despite this.

It was true that Jews considered themselves God's chosen, and that comparatively speaking, everyone else (especially their enemies) were held in the same esteem as a dog (which were not highly esteemed in those days). But what the Jews were tossing away, foreigners were poised to gladly receive.

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

No, it's about faith. We know that Jesus did NOT come just for the Jews, but for the Gentiles as well. Jesus was known for putting stumbling blocks in people's way when they spoke to Him in order to test whether they had the faith and perseverence to bypass them. The Canaanites were a pagan people, with a long history of animosity between them and the Jews. For her to believe Him to be the Messiah prophesied by the Jews strongly enough to beg him for help, even in the face of apparent rejection, was a hugely meaningful thing, as was Jesus' subsequent help. This was all intended to be a test of her faith, and a lesson to Jews and Gentiles alike.

The Canaanites were a pagan people - they were Baal worshipers - that is why the reference in word "dog" - Read Revelation 21 for the example of why the term is used.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Of course not. Christianity does not promote racism at all. You do not understand the context of why Jesus said this. The woman who came to him was a Baal Worshiper. She worshiped Baal - in the region of Tyre and Sidon in that day if you didn't worship Baal you'd be killed. She didn't have a choice in the matter - furthermore, the Jews were surely amazed that Jesus went there! This wasn't a place the Jews would go near as the Jews feared the LORD and would not mingle with Baal worshipers.
Dogs - would have been another word for the wicked. Look at Revelation 21:14,15
it is written:
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gates into the city.
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
-Revelation 21: 14, 15
_________________
It had nothing to do with racism. God loves you. He didn't send Jesus into the world to condemn you but rather to save you! Read Romans 10:9,10. Its Good news! What Jesus did for that Baal worshiping woman - because of her faith - and her willingness to use her faith to believe on him rather than a baal god who could do nothing for her daughter - she received her answer and Jesus had mercy upon her! What He did for her? He will do for you today. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. Call upon the name of the LORD and be saved today. Today is the day of salvation. TODAY.

I didn't read all of your post but if what you are saying is true ("she was a Baal worshipper,") WHY DID SHE FIRST CALL JESUS "LORD" AND HE STILL CALLED HER A DOG?

Someone is lying.

Keep in mind that Jesus knew the woman's heart before he even called her that. Jesus also called a certain group of Jewish leaders a brood of vipers. Why? Because he knew their heart. Right this very moment - Jesus knows the heart of every single person on this board. That is a fact. Jesus knew before she came to him that she would. The story is a great lesson in not being offended - being offended is a choice - the Gospel of Jesus Christ is a great offense to some people - but as Jesus sent word to John the Baptist ( who was in jail awaiting a beheading and tempted to be offended in not having the deliverance he was expecting) Blessed is he who is not offended in me.

 

[hadit]

I find a recurring theme among atheists is that God does not act how they expect God to act.

And they are offended that God doesn't bow to their standards.

 

[sealybobo]

And they are offended that God doesn't bow to their standards.

You two are morons. Both of your comments must be false. Here is the definition of atheist

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

We simply do not believe in your invisible man. And the only ones who get offended are you. I can understand. If I truly believed in a fairy tale and someone told me it was bullshit, I'd get offended too.

God, or the Universe, acts exactly how we suspect. He/IT does not care about you.

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

 

[hadit]

You two are morons. Both of your comments must be false. Here is the definition of atheist

a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

We simply do not believe in your invisible man. And the only ones who get offended are you. I can understand. If I truly believed in a fairy tale and someone told me it was bullshit, I'd get offended too.

God, or the Universe, acts exactly how we suspect. He/IT does not care about you.

Why there is no god

Responses to common theist arguments

whynogod.wordpress.com

An atheist would look at people of faith, shrug and ignore them. An evangelical atheist (that's you) looks at people of faith and makes it his mission to complain about what they believe and attempt to prove them wrong. Let's face it, you have an evangelical zeal about your atheism.

 

[hobelim]

An atheist would look at people of faith, shrug and ignore them. An evangelical atheist (that's you) looks at people of faith and makes it his mission to complain about what they believe and attempt to prove them wrong. Let's face it, you have an evangelical zeal about your atheism.

Scripture says that God doesn't give a flying fuck about those who prefer darkness to light.

so when someone says something like this, "God, or the Universe, acts exactly how we suspect. He/IT does not care" , whoever "we" is... is right. For 'them' there really is no God.

God is only the God of the living.

 

[kjw47]

Hi,

I read this Scriptures from the New Testament and I wondered do they mean that Christianity justifies racism (in the Scriptures Jesus refers to people of certain races as "dogs:")

"(21)Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon. (22)And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. (23)But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. (24)But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (25)Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. (26)But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. (27)And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. (28)Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour." Matt. 15:21-28

"(24)And from thence he arose, and went into the borders of Tyre and Sidon, and entered into an house, and would have no man know it: but he could not be hid. (25) For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet: (26)The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. (27)But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. (28)And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. (29)And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter. (30)And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed." Mark 7:24-30

Do these Scriptures mean that Christianity justify racism?...

Men twist things from the bible. The bible is clear--If you dont love your brothers who you can see, then its impossible to love God whom you cannot see.
I think Jesus was quoting how the Pharisees looked at their own flock--They called them Amharets-means to throw table scraps to the dogs-He was meaning spiritual table scraps. But thats how the Israelite spiritual teachers viewed the flock when he was on earth. A lack of love.
They had placed themselves on pedastels thinking they were better than the Flock, thats one of the reasons they refused to accept Jesus as the Messiah--They were expecting a mighty king to come and get rid of the roman rulership over them. But a mere carpenters son showed up and told them they were doing things wrong. It turned their hearts to hatred for Jesus. I would say Jesus was just using that event to use a parable against the Israelite teachers thinking.

 

[Clyde 154]

The story is obviously about race; she called him "Lord" (exhibiting faith) and he still ignored her and called her a dog.

In context the reason that the Lord called her a dog is simple, its explained in detail............it was not literal but presented metaphorically. And most assuredly this passage is about FAITH vs. Tradition, its not about actually calling someone a dog because they are from a gentile race of peoples. The Jewish leaders were placing man made tradition over the actual word of God Its self explained, beginning in vs 1-13......then explaining that its not what a man eats/consumes that condemns him, it what exists within man himself that condemns him.......if you have faith there is nothing unclean as long as a proper thanksgiving is presented (vs. 13-23) The Jewish leaders were presenting a SHOW in pretending to make things CLEAN for consumption based upon the man made tradition of washing their hands, pots, pans....etc., when all that is actually required is faith in Gods word.

Jesus was simply telling this woman that His mission statement from heaven was first to preach of the coming kingdom of God to the Jews first and foremost confirming such with signs and wonders as per the fulfilling of God's word in prophecy (comparing the Isralites as God's children -- vs. 27)....but when the woman displayed a faith that the Jewish leaders lacked, her faith, according to the Lord was greater and thus her request was fulfilled.......(vs. 29-30)

A similiar event was recorded concerning the woman who was guilty of adultery approaching the Lord at Jacob's well in John Chapter 4. Jesus told her that she Knew not what she worshiped in calling Him Lord......explaing that His mission was to preach the gospel first to the Peoples of Israel and she was still a practicing adulterer and He (Jesus) was not asking of her water to drink, her being from a pagan background, not knowing what she worshiped ......but, He was offering her LIVING WATER........a faith that contains knowledge not based upon paganism, a faith were the actual God of creation was being served. The God, the only God, that must be worshiped both in Spirit and Truth. The woman had attempted to deceive Jesus by calling Him Lord knowing the truth in her heart that she was still a practicing adulterer.

In conclusion: The word of God does not contradict itself, as all scripture is inspired by the same Holy Spirit (2 Tim. 3:16).........that Holy Spirit is quoted in explaining that God does not consider race as a basis for bigotry, ".........has made (God) from one blood all the nations on earth........" -- Acts 17:26

 

[sealybobo]

An atheist would look at people of faith, shrug and ignore them. An evangelical atheist (that's you) looks at people of faith and makes it his mission to complain about what they believe and attempt to prove them wrong. Let's face it, you have an evangelical zeal about your atheism.

When I see something that I feel is wrong with christianity/religions, I come here and say it. Sorry if it offends you. But remember I'm not attacking your god. I don't even believe he exists.

Believers are persecuted by atheists.​

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the centre of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

Why can’t atheists just leave theists alone?​

• Because religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history. See also: Religiously motivated animosity, violence and oppression and discrimination.
• For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women’s rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
• Because belief in a god taps into mankind’s natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out ‘God’s plan’ or ‘God’s will’ is a sure-fire way to absolve one’s-self of responsibility for one’s actions. See also: Cituke.
• Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
• Because religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person’s mind. It teaches them to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of ‘devine knowledge’. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history have been repressed, sometimes forcefully, by those with faith. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. See also: Hypatia, Galileo Galilei, Giordano Bruno, The relationship between science and religion.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
the desert religions, their congregations ...

are all three - racist to their core. values.

 

[hadit]

When I see something that I feel is wrong with christianity/religions, I come here and say it. Sorry if it offends you. But remember I'm not attacking your god. I don't even believe he exists.

Believers are persecuted by atheists.​

Believers claim the victim and imply that non-theists gang up on them, or rally against them. No, atheists just look at believers the same way they might look at someone who claims the Earth is flat, or that the Earth is the centre of the universe: delusional.

The bar theists set for perceived atheist hostility appears to be anyone simply voicing a dissenting opinion or mentioning an inclination towards non-belief. Claiming ‘persecution’ is simply a deflection for theists who are unwilling or unable to deal with open criticism.

Why can’t atheists just leave theists alone?​

• Because religion has been, and continues to be, responsible for countless horrors throughout human history. See also: Religiously motivated animosity, violence and oppression and discrimination.
• For all the problems we face as a society, many theists choose not only to do nothing to help, but actually engage in sabotage by actively preventing solutions from being instigated, usually by supporting irrational political positions e.g. stem-cell research, contraception, women’s rights, sexual equality and even global warming.
• Because belief in a god taps into mankind’s natural tendency to defer moral decision making to authority figures (including priests, prophets, holy books, popes, ayatollahs and imams). Acting out ‘God’s plan’ or ‘God’s will’ is a sure-fire way to absolve one’s-self of responsibility for one’s actions. See also: Cituke.
• Because as a functional member of society it benefits everyone if your decision making process is founded on evidence and reason, not on superstition. Faith isn’t a virtue; it is the glorification of voluntary ignorance.
• Because religious superstition erects an absolute monarchy in a person’s mind. It teaches them to be satisfied with with not understanding the world and represents a surrendering to ignorance under the pretension of ‘devine knowledge’. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history have been repressed, sometimes forcefully, by those with faith. It is not skeptics or explorers but fanatics and ideologues who menace decency and progress. See also: Hypatia, Galileo Galilei, Giordano Bruno, The relationship between science and religion.

You're very evangelical about something you don't believe exists.

 

[flacaltenn]

Mod Message: I just put a "sticky thread" in this forum's listing that I forgot to place when Religion forum became "civil discussion" Zone 1. Please do not bump the older threads in this forum since they definitely dont comply with civil discussion. If the topic interests you -- start it anew according the rules of "civil discussion".

I'll leave this one open until the end of the day today so you can wrap it up.

 

[initforme]

Mixed races are what helps a nation thrive as God has commanded.