Do YOU support Trump’s last ditch effort to convince Republican state legislatures to APPOINT pro-Trump Electors?

I wonder what most ordinary Republicans would say and do if Trump were to convince Republican-controlled legislatures (as in Georgia & Michigan) to ignore the statewide popular vote for Biden, dismiss it as fraudulent on the basis of no real court-certified evidence, and appoint Republican Electors to re-elect Trump?

That now seems to be his “Plan C.” In the unlikely and god-awful case that he became President in this way, Trump and his Republican supporters would truly be leading us to Civil War. It would be an historical point marking the degeneration of our democratic traditions, and the transformation of our country into a rightwing “Banana Republic.”

Sad to say, this undemocratic attempt at a “coup” is exactly what Trump seems to be trying to do right now, as outlined clearly in this FOX report. Do YOU support such conduct? Where do our Republican USMBers — especially those claiming to be critical of Trump in some ways — stand on such efforts?

Looks like Fake News. What State legislatures are on the record favoring that course in this election? But of course, they aren't bound by illegal votes, that's why the State Legislature is constitutionally charged with the final decision on selecting electors.

But, I can see why you are running scared.

Dominion Voting Systems ‘Lawyers Up,’ Abruptly Backs Out of PA State House Fact-Finding Hearing.

State Govt Committee Chair Seth Grove said the 1.3. million Pennsylvanians who used Dominion’s voting machines have been “hung out to dry and slapped in their faces.”

Pennsylvania lawmakers had scheduled the hearing with the voting machine manufacturer “to help identify and correct any irregularities in the election process,” according to the House Republican Caucus.

“It is vitally important voters have faith in the machines they use to cast their ballots. On the heels of Gov. Tom Wolf unilaterally decertifying every voting machine in the Commonwealth, we need to know whether these new machines met expectations, whether they are reliable and whether they are not subject to interference,” said Rep. Grove (R-York).

Dominion had initially agreed to attend the hearing, before it “abruptly canceled,” Grove said.

“I was impressed at what appeared to be the willingness that Dominion Voting Systems to address accusations and it would have put 1.3. million Pennsylvanians who used their machines at ease—including myself, thinking that Dominion was willing to publicly back up their product which PA taxpayers invested millions to purchase” he noted during the presser. “Unfortunately, last evening, Dominion Voting Systems lawyered up, and backed out of their commitment to the people of Pennsylvania to provide their input in a public format.”

Grove blasted the company for “retreating into the darkness,” rather than appearing at the hearing with “honesty and integrity.”

The committee chair said he wanted to know why a company with nothing to hide would back out.

“Why would a vender of public goods fear discussing their product sold to the public for the public good? If Dominion’s products were successful and operated as they were supposed to, why wouldn’t Dominion take the opportunity to publicly review its success?” Grove demanded. “How hard is it to say, ‘our ballot machines worked exactly as promised and they’re 100 percent accurate’?”

“After weeks of accusations, why has Dominion Voting Systems not released any analysis of the success of its voting machines to the public in order to stop their accusers in their tracks? If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding from us?” he asked.

“Today I am saddened to report to the taxpayers of Pennsylvania and the 1.3 million voters who trusted Dominion Voting Systems with their ballots, that Dominion Voting Systems has hung you out to dry and slapped you in your faces.” the committee chair declared.

Grove stated that Dominion’s behavior lent credibility to their accusers’ accusations.

Well, hiding isn't going to work, hiding is a tacit admission that they can't be trusted, but, our Framers foresaw this, the final authority are the elected Legislature of the Commonwealth who will chose Electors on basis of what they perceive as the will of their constituents. So, our constitutional democracy remains in the good hands of our trusted representatives.
I can always count on Zorro! to troll and muck up my threads with askew or off topic polemics...
Fake News. This thread and the title specifically references the Constitutional role that the State Legislatures play in Elector selection.
... The issue of this latest (of many) conspiracy charges against a particular third party vendor of voting machines (used in 19% of counties in Pennsylvania but not Philly) is irrelevant to my thread, which assumes that no major fraud will be found. My thread does specifically address a different matter, and mentions other states...
Fake News. If an untrustworthy voting system produces a vote count that is not representative of the will of the Electorate, the State Legislature is not bound by illegal votes and untrustworthy elections, especially elections that violated the rules that the State Legislature instructed them to follow. Last election to the great surprise of the Left, they learned that the Presidential Electorate is the Electoral College not the Popular Vote. Perhaps this election they will learn that a fraudulent election does nothing to bind the State Legislatures.

Elections that violate the law, by covering windows, expelling observers, lying to observers and telling them that the counting will stop for the night, only to resume once the Republicans leave, that alter the State Legislatures rules on due dates and signature verification no longer have the presumption of validity.

It is very important that you folks learn how to conduct yourselves honestly, openly and with verifiable adherence to the election rules. If this election proves to be disappointing to you, well, the next election is never that far away and a fresh opportunity for you all to demonstrate your ability to act with integrity while respecting the rights of even those who disagree with you. Such fair handed play will really make you feel better about yourselves!
... USER=72034]Zorro![/USER] should at least be aware that the company in question responded to these latest charges as follows:

“As we await the opportunity to debunk the baseless conspiracy theories being offered ...
Fake News. They were given an opportunity to respond, agreed to respond and then promptly ran.
 
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Those are samples... They are there to show that there is a greater something going on

Nonsense. The Trump campaign has been suing for as little as a poll worker being "rude". If there was more...there would be lawsuits with ya know....evidence. There are neither
Ok... You missed it the first time somehow. The Trump campaign only has like THREE cases.

And I detailed those three on this thread and others. NONE of them amount to enough votes to make a difference
I was actually talking about Georgia. I don't know what the final count was, but it was between 10-15 thousand.
Georgia has been counted...recounted and certified.

The Republicans who RAN that election stand by it
 
Fake News. This thread and the title specifically references the Constitutional role that the State Legislatures play in Elector selection.

And in almost all (if not all) it is illegal for the electors to vote differently from the popular vote in that state
Fake News. If an untrustworthy voting system produces a vote count that is not representative of the will of the Electorate, the State Legislature is not bound by illegal votes and untrustworthy elections, especially elections that violated the rules that the State Legislature instructed them to follow.

The bolded has no real meaning and there is no legal mechanism for a state legislature to send electors that don't accurately represent the certified vote as cast
 
Pedo Joe couldn't lead a pack of starving dogs to fresh meat with the blood of the animal dripping from his sleeves...but yet leftards are wanting us to validate him????


Don't hold your breath.......
 
Those are samples... They are there to show that there is a greater something going on

Nonsense. The Trump campaign has been suing for as little as a poll worker being "rude". If there was more...there would be lawsuits with ya know....evidence. There are neither
Ok... You missed it the first time somehow. The Trump campaign only has like THREE cases.

And I detailed those three on this thread and others. NONE of them amount to enough votes to make a difference
I was actually talking about Georgia. I don't know what the final count was, but it was between 10-15 thousand.
Georgia has been counted...recounted and certified.

The Republicans who RAN that election stand by it
You know what? I've done the talk past one another for enough for today. For the record though... Nah...
 
If they don't.....then they no longer possess the constitutional authority to select the electors for that election. The people who vote do.
No. The people do not unless the laws say they do. Under the circumstances as outlined by the laws of the state. Which is what we are talking about.

The thing that decides the factors, is the deciding factor.

One, the law says they do.

Two, if the state legislatures can't take back their authority from the people to decide how electors are selected.....then that authority is not longer the State Legislatures for that election. That authority is possessed by the people who voted.

Where is that written, douchebag? The state legislature always has the authority. That's what the Constitution says. You're living in a fantasy land.

The decider.....is the body that possesses the authority. Not the body from which the authority was derived.

Otherwise, by your own argument.....the State Legislatures aren't the deciders, the constitution is. As they derive their authority from the Constitution. And since the authority of the Constitution is derived from the consent of the governed.....its the people from which the constitution derives its authority.

With the people, yet again, being the deciders......by your own logic. And certainly by mine.
You're a true idiot.

Read back through the debate for us both addressing that exact issue.

Catch up, then join us.
You addressed nothing. You proved that your an idiot. Only the legislature has authority to make election law. That's what the Constitution says.

And once they've made those laws, do the State Legislatures have to abide them?
They can change the law whenever they like

Sure a state can change it's laws. Governors can veto the change. They cannot switch electors after Dec. 8th.
Governors cannot veto changes in election laws, nimrod.
 
If they don't.....then they no longer possess the constitutional authority to select the electors for that election. The people who vote do.
No. The people do not unless the laws say they do. Under the circumstances as outlined by the laws of the state. Which is what we are talking about.

The thing that decides the factors, is the deciding factor.

One, the law says they do.

Two, if the state legislatures can't take back their authority from the people to decide how electors are selected.....then that authority is not longer the State Legislatures for that election. That authority is possessed by the people who voted.

Where is that written, douchebag? The state legislature always has the authority. That's what the Constitution says. You're living in a fantasy land.

The decider.....is the body that possesses the authority. Not the body from which the authority was derived.

Otherwise, by your own argument.....the State Legislatures aren't the deciders, the constitution is. As they derive their authority from the Constitution. And since the authority of the Constitution is derived from the consent of the governed.....its the people from which the constitution derives its authority.

With the people, yet again, being the deciders......by your own logic. And certainly by mine.
You're a true idiot.

Read back through the debate for us both addressing that exact issue.

Catch up, then join us.
You addressed nothing. You proved that your an idiot. Only the legislature has authority to make election law. That's what the Constitution says.

And once they've made those laws, do the State Legislatures have to abide them?
They can change the law whenever they like

Sure a state can change it's laws. Governors can veto the change. They cannot switch electors after Dec. 8th.

More to the point they can't end-around their own laws that were in place when the election was held. Not without a time machine. That's banana republic-level chicanery. The very idea is absurd.
OH, but the governor can simply cancel their election laws and impose whatever he wants?

Are you aware of how totally full of shit you are?
 
Article 2 - the bottom line.

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."

Correct. I've posted that article about 22 thousand times. And the Legislatures thereof ALREADY DIRECTED and codified how it works. To disregard their own law would require declaring that the law in effect on November 3 2020, was not in effect on November 3, 2020. That's impossible.
Exactly. It is illegal for state legislatures to send electors to the EC who do not represent the voters as voted.

ILLEGAL

That is what Trump is trying to do
Reeally? What law says that?
 
Fake News. This thread and the title specifically references the Constitutional role that the State Legislatures play in Elector selection.

And in almost all (if not all) it is illegal for the electors to vote differently from the popular vote in that state
Fake News. If an untrustworthy voting system produces a vote count that is not representative of the will of the Electorate, the State Legislature is not bound by illegal votes and untrustworthy elections, especially elections that violated the rules that the State Legislature instructed them to follow.

The bolded has no real meaning and there is no legal mechanism for a state legislature to send electors that don't accurately represent the certified vote as cast
Fake News. The State Legislatures determine how electors are selected. They are not bound by elections that did not follow the rules they laid out. This power is granted to them by the Constitution and may only be altered by Constitutional Amendment.
 
Those are samples... They are there to show that there is a greater something going on

Nonsense. The Trump campaign has been suing for as little as a poll worker being "rude". If there was more...there would be lawsuits with ya know....evidence. There are neither
Ok... You missed it the first time somehow. The Trump campaign only has like THREE cases.
And I detailed those three on this thread and others. NONE of them amount to enough votes to make a difference...
Fake news. Everu illegal vote steals a legal vote and even ONE stolen vote is too many.
Georgia has been counted...recounted and certified.

The Republicans who RAN that election stand by it
Fake News. I don't care if Santa Claus stands behind it. The Legislature required effective signature checks, both the original election AND the recount failed to follow the Legislature's directive to effectively match signatures.
 
If Trump has to go I want to see him defying every effort to oust him to the bitter end; Dems have shown what disgusting scum they are by usurping the election; stuff them!!!

Greg
You know what an election is, right? When one candidates gets more votes than another candidate, the one with more votes wins. It's not up to the loser to defy every effort to oust him after the votes are counted. This is what we call 'democracy'. What yo are calling for is called 'sore loser' at best, 'authoritarian' at worst. Is that how you would want to govern?

TRUMP CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY LEGAL AVENUE OPEN TO HIM; live with it!!!!

Greg
 
“I wonder what most ordinary Republicans would say and do if Trump were to convince Republican-controlled legislatures (as in Georgia & Michigan) to ignore the statewide popular vote for Biden, dismiss it as fraudulent on the basis of no real court-certified evidence, and appoint Republican Electors to re-elect Trump?”
Please note this thread presumes that NO court-certified evidence of widespread fraud will be found. This is so far the case. I will report to our moderators any further charges of “Fake News” in this thread, or “revelations” of new charges of fraud, as being off topic trolling. This thread raises a serious hypothetical question, which should be discussed on its own merits.
 
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If Trump has to go I want to see him defying every effort to oust him to the bitter end; Dems have shown what disgusting scum they are by usurping the election; stuff them!!!

Greg
You know what an election is, right? When one candidates gets more votes than another candidate, the one with more votes wins. It's not up to the loser to defy every effort to oust him after the votes are counted. This is what we call 'democracy'. What yo are calling for is called 'sore loser' at best, 'authoritarian' at worst. Is that how you would want to govern?

TRUMP CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY LEGAL AVENUE OPEN TO HIM; live with it!!!!

Greg
Is it legal for one of the contestants, to invite the contest judges to his house for a meet n greet, before the contest is over?
 
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If Trump has to go I want to see him defying every effort to oust him to the bitter end; Dems have shown what disgusting scum they are by usurping the election; stuff them!!!

Greg
You know what an election is, right? When one candidates gets more votes than another candidate, the one with more votes wins. It's not up to the loser to defy every effort to oust him after the votes are counted. This is what we call 'democracy'. What yo are calling for is called 'sore loser' at best, 'authoritarian' at worst. Is that how you would want to govern?

TRUMP CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY LEGAL AVENUE OPEN TO HIM; live with it!!!!

Greg
By presenting actual evidence, yes. Where is it?
 
Fake news. Everu illegal vote steals a legal vote and even ONE stolen vote is too many.

There are not enough votes even being credibly contested to change anything. That has been shown to you and ignored.
TRUMP CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY LEGAL AVENUE OPEN TO HIM; live with it!!!!
Newsflash...sending the wrong slate of electors to the EC is ILLEGAL
 
Article 2 - the bottom line.

"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."

Correct. I've posted that article about 22 thousand times. And the Legislatures thereof ALREADY DIRECTED and codified how it works. To disregard their own law would require declaring that the law in effect on November 3 2020, was not in effect on November 3, 2020. That's impossible.
Exactly. It is illegal for state legislatures to send electors to the EC who do not represent the voters as voted.

ILLEGAL...
Fake News. It's the state Legislatures that lay down the process by which electors will be selected. When they chose to do it by election and then their rules are deliberately not followed so that only legal votes may be cast, then then the outcome that those that decided to change the rules come up with, cannot be presumed to be the intent of the Electorate, rather, it's the intent of those who changed the rules so that illegal votes could be easily and numerously caste.
 
Fake news. Everu illegal vote steals a legal vote and even ONE stolen vote is too many.

There are not enough votes even being credibly contested to change anything. That has been shown to you and ignored.
TRUMP CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY LEGAL AVENUE OPEN TO HIM; live with it!!!!
Newsflash...sending the wrong slate of electors to the EC is ILLEGAL
How is "the wrong slate of electors" defined? The Constitution defines the correct slate of electors as any slate of electors the state legislature decides to send.
 
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The efforts of Trump to convince election officials NOT to confirm the election vote in favor of Biden, to ignore the first counting of popular votes in Michigan and Georgia and instead have Republican-controlled legislatures appoint pro-Trump electors, seems to be running into trouble.

Here is an update appearing this morning in the Washington Post, which other media sources seem mostly to confirm:


“On Wednesday, two Republican officials in Wayne County sought to rescind their vote to certify the election results in their county, where Detroit is located, after Trump called them Tuesday night.
 On Friday afternoon, four leaders of Michigan’s Republican-controlled state legislature met with Trump in the White House at his invitation.
Tensions surrounding the White House encounter seemed to ease somewhat late Friday when there were signs the lawmakers would not side with Trump.
No details of the meeting were available late Friday. But the lawmakers issued a statement saying that they “have not yet been made aware of any information that would change the outcome of the election in Michigan and as legislative leaders, we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors, just as we have said throughout this election.”

The popular votes have not been confirmed in all states yet. Nor has the Electoral College met and passed on its results to Congress. So my question to moderate Republican voters about Trump trying to get state legislatures to intervene and overthrow popular votes — without court recognized evidence that the vote was fraudulent — is still relevant:

“Do YOU support such conduct? Where do our Republican USMBers — especially those claiming to be critical of Trump in some ways — stand on such efforts?”
 
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