Do you believe in Eternal Security.....

[Blackrook]

Anyway, my own experience with God is that you can be really close to him, then get angry with him and walk away.

MaxGrit tells me I was never (really) saved, so I guess everything I went through meant nothing.

Seems like he's trying really hard to save a doctrine that runs counter to many people's experiences during their faith journey.

You said "give up on God" which is a completely different matter. Many people get angry with God and become atheists, or, like Satan, hate God even though they believe He exists.

You should think before you speak. I was very insulted when you said I was "never saved." It seems to me you are being very presumptious to think you can make that judgment.

 

[MaxGrit]

Anyway, my own experience with God is that you can be really close to him, then get angry with him and walk away.

MaxGrit tells me I was never (really) saved, so I guess everything I went through meant nothing.

Seems like he's trying really hard to save a doctrine that runs counter to many people's experiences during their faith journey.

You said "give up on God" which is a completely different matter. Many people get angry with God and become atheists, or, like Satan, hate God even though they believe He exists.

You should think before you speak. I was very insulted when you said I was "never saved." It seems to me you are being very presumptious to think you can make that judgment.

Who's is the judge? God is the Judge. No man can judge your soul.

Furthermore, I was agreeing with you when you said, "Yes, it is possible to be very close with God, and then lose hope and give up on God, and get angry with God." It's only possible because those people are in Category 2 (carnal faith, never saved).

You said "give up on God." Stop being insulted whenever people respond to your statement logically. It's illogical to say that God hating atheist ex-Christians were ever saved.

Think before you get insulted.

 

[Blackrook]

Anyway, my own experience with God is that you can be really close to him, then get angry with him and walk away.

MaxGrit tells me I was never (really) saved, so I guess everything I went through meant nothing.

Seems like he's trying really hard to save a doctrine that runs counter to many people's experiences during their faith journey.

You said "give up on God" which is a completely different matter. Many people get angry with God and become atheists, or, like Satan, hate God even though they believe He exists.

You should think before you speak. I was very insulted when you said I was "never saved." It seems to me you are being very presumptious to think you can make that judgment.

Who's is the judge? God is the Judge. No man can judge your soul.

Furthermore, I was agreeing with you when you said, "Yes, it is possible to be very close with God, and then lose hope and give up on God, and get angry with God." It's only possible because those people are in Category 2 (carnal faith, never saved).

You said "give up on God." Stop being insulted whenever people respond to your statement logically. It's illogical to say that God hating atheist ex-Christians were ever saved.

Think before you get insulted.

You are engaging in mental gymnastics to justify OSAS. A person can have a genuine experience of accepting Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, be saved, and then fall away and lose his faith. It happens to many people, and for you to say they were never "really" saved is presumptious.

 

[Blackrook]

Actually as a correction, I should say, that no one is "saved" at an altar call. We are judged at the moment of death. Until then we can never know whether or not we will be "saved."

 

[MaxGrit]

Yes, I'm telling you that Category 1 people know that they're saved. The people who says they don't know if they're saved is Category 2.

Notice how it's present tenses: has eternal life, has passed from death to life, shall not hunger, shall never thirst.

John
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

 

[MaxGrit]

Anyway, my own experience with God is that you can be really close to him, then get angry with him and walk away.

MaxGrit tells me I was never (really) saved, so I guess everything I went through meant nothing.

Seems like he's trying really hard to save a doctrine that runs counter to many people's experiences during their faith journey.

You said "give up on God" which is a completely different matter. Many people get angry with God and become atheists, or, like Satan, hate God even though they believe He exists.

You should think before you speak. I was very insulted when you said I was "never saved." It seems to me you are being very presumptious to think you can make that judgment.

Who's is the judge? God is the Judge. No man can judge your soul.

Furthermore, I was agreeing with you when you said, "Yes, it is possible to be very close with God, and then lose hope and give up on God, and get angry with God." It's only possible because those people are in Category 2 (carnal faith, never saved).

You said "give up on God." Stop being insulted whenever people respond to your statement logically. It's illogical to say that God hating atheist ex-Christians were ever saved.

Think before you get insulted.

You are engaging in mental gymnastics to justify OSAS. A person can have a genuine experience of accepting Christ as his personal Lord and Savior, be saved, and then fall away and lose his faith. It happens to many people, and for you to say they were never "really" saved is presumptious.

It's based on what the Bible says,

"37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day."

It's perfectly logical to say that the claimed "genuine experience" was not genuine.

Hebrews 6
(ESV)
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.

 

[Judicial review]

Cathlics need to show a love for Jesus Christ for what he has done to save theirs, and by getting baptized as a baby isn't enough. You have to KNOW what you are doing and why by yourself. This is a huge issue I have with the Catholic religions and the fact they hold the pope as someone who is above them when reality is he's their equal since everybody is equal in the eyes of God. Idiots.

 

[Meriweather]

Cathlics need to show a love for Jesus Christ for what he has done to save theirs, and by getting baptized as a baby isn't enough. You have to KNOW what you are doing and why by yourself. This is a huge issue I have with the Catholic religions and the fact they hold the pope as someone who is above them when reality is he's their equal since everybody is equal in the eyes of God. Idiots.

Catholics are immersed in Christ from babyhood on. Christ is part of their family, he is central to their Church community. From (1) Baptism, children are enveloped in the life of Christ. "Your sins are forgiven..." (2) Sacrament of Reconciliation; "Do this in memory of me..." (3) The Eucharist; receiving the Holy Spirit (4) Confirmation; the (5) Sacrament of healing, and then sometimes (6) Matrimony or (7) Holy Orders. Catholics--even Catholic children--know what they are doing and why. They are centered in the life of Christ all of their days.

It is the Church (the Body of Christ) that Catholics see as someone above them--and the Pope is merely recognized and respected for being responsible for the earthly care of the Church for a specific time. Think of your church's pastor What would you say to people who say you hold your pastor above you? Wouldn't you say they misunderstand? You misunderstand about the Pope. Think of him as pastor, and you will have a more accurate and coherent idea of how Catholics see the Pope.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

 

[teddyearp]

I think you're all going to Hell because I say so

 

[Delta4Embassy]

We're all going to the same place. Eventually the Sun will neter its' red giant phase expanding until it engulfs the first three planets including us. If we don't vaporize altogether we'll be literally inside a star and quite dead. And justa billion or so years beyond that the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies will merge passing through one another. While nothing will touch oweing to light years between stars, it'll disrupt everything and cause radiation spikes to anything living unfortunate enough to be there. If humans still exist by then, we'd better have figured out intergalactic travel and headed for greener pastures. Way beyond this the universe itself will make its' last star, then the last star will die and the universe will go dark and freeze completely. Anything still alive in it will have to adapt to total darkness andnear absolute zero temperatures.

But go on, worry about madeup stuff like heaven and are you on the list, and hell.

 

[PratchettFan]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

To the question in the title, yes I do. However, the post assumes that one needs to be saved. That I don't believe. No one is ever lost, so no saving is required.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That depends on if you are saved by grace alone by faith alone.

Or did you decide to choose Jesus by your own work of faith.

The distinction:

1) Grace --> Regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Born again by the Spirit) --> Faith --> Works of the Spirit (Sealed with the Holy Spirit as guarantee of salvation in Christ Jesus)

2) Works of the Flesh [Carnal Works, Works of the Flesh is of the Flesh] --> Dead Faith [Carnal Faith, Dead Works yields Dead Faith, Dead in the Spirit] (Was Never Regenerated by the Holy Spirit, Not Sealed by the Holy Spirit, Still Dead in the Spirit, Not Saved)

Is your god really all that picky?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

Would say if you identify as any religion at all you've already lost. Minute you admit you believe in other people's mental illnesses as reality, and share those delusions and other symptoms, you've already lost any contest over best at something.

All religions are tools once used to maintain control of the masses before effective large-scale governments and rule of law came about.

 

[RandomVariable]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

Would say if you identify as any religion at all you've already lost. Minute you admit you believe in other people's mental illnesses as reality, and share those delusions and other symptoms, you've already lost any contest over best at something.

All religions are tools once used to maintain control of the masses before effective large-scale governments and rule of law came about.

If I have my own religion and am not trying to convert anyone do I still fit your definition of the religious.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

Would say if you identify as any religion at all you've already lost. Minute you admit you believe in other people's mental illnesses as reality, and share those delusions and other symptoms, you've already lost any contest over best at something.

All religions are tools once used to maintain control of the masses before effective large-scale governments and rule of law came about.

If I have my own religion and am not trying to convert anyone do I still fit your definition of the religious.

If it's a properly defined religion with supreme being at its head, ya you're still nuts and on the list of people to come get when the revolutions comes. If it's a life philosophy or something more power to ya.

 

[RandomVariable]

or OSAS (once saved always saved)? Why yes or why no? Or are you not sure? Interesting post hopefully coming.....

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

Would say if you identify as any religion at all you've already lost. Minute you admit you believe in other people's mental illnesses as reality, and share those delusions and other symptoms, you've already lost any contest over best at something.

All religions are tools once used to maintain control of the masses before effective large-scale governments and rule of law came about.

If I have my own religion and am not trying to convert anyone do I still fit your definition of the religious.

If it's a properly defined religion with supreme being at its head, ya you're still nuts and on the list of people to come get when the revolutions comes. If it's a life philosophy or something more power to ya.

My God is Yahweh and my bible is the Old Testament (KJV). I think that makes me an official religion then. How am I now 'nuts'? Is it not my strict and absolute belief in scientifically proven 'facts', and only those facts? Or is it that I have a handbook, as it may be, that helps with the understanding of that which is not of a scientific nature?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Christianity doesn't even agree on this question and it varies by denomination. It's actually mentioned with other major tenets of major religions' systems here:

Comparison Chart of Beliefs of Christian Denominations Religion Facts

search down to "perseverance once saved"

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

Would say if you identify as any religion at all you've already lost. Minute you admit you believe in other people's mental illnesses as reality, and share those delusions and other symptoms, you've already lost any contest over best at something.

All religions are tools once used to maintain control of the masses before effective large-scale governments and rule of law came about.

If I have my own religion and am not trying to convert anyone do I still fit your definition of the religious.

If it's a properly defined religion with supreme being at its head, ya you're still nuts and on the list of people to come get when the revolutions comes. If it's a life philosophy or something more power to ya.

My God is Yahweh and my bible is the Old Testament (KJV). I think that makes me an official religion then. How am I now 'nuts'? Is it not my strict and absolute belief in scientifically proven 'facts', and only those facts? Or is it that I have a handbook, as it may be, that helps with the understanding of that which is not of a scientific nature?

You believe because your culture's conditioned you to. Chances are while you know much of what's in your KJV, you don't know very m,uch about how the book came to be, what its origns are, and consequently that absurdity enables you to say you believe in it. Easy to believe when you don't know the backstories. But nothing convinced me more how it's all nonsense than looking into how the various Bibles came to be, what came before, leading back to the very first reliiogn. And no that isn't Judaism. Goes back tens of thousands of years religion, not 6000.

 

[RandomVariable]

Almost all the threads in the Religion forum end up in a pissing contest with every poster screeching they're the best christian and everyone else is wrong.

Would say if you identify as any religion at all you've already lost. Minute you admit you believe in other people's mental illnesses as reality, and share those delusions and other symptoms, you've already lost any contest over best at something.

All religions are tools once used to maintain control of the masses before effective large-scale governments and rule of law came about.

If I have my own religion and am not trying to convert anyone do I still fit your definition of the religious.

If it's a properly defined religion with supreme being at its head, ya you're still nuts and on the list of people to come get when the revolutions comes. If it's a life philosophy or something more power to ya.

My God is Yahweh and my bible is the Old Testament (KJV). I think that makes me an official religion then. How am I now 'nuts'? Is it not my strict and absolute belief in scientifically proven 'facts', and only those facts? Or is it that I have a handbook, as it may be, that helps with the understanding of that which is not of a scientific nature?

You believe because your culture's conditioned you to. Chances are while you know much of what's in your KJV, you don't know very m,uch about how the book came to be, what its origns are, and consequently that absurdity enables you to say you believe in it. Easy to believe when you don't know the backstories. But nothing convinced me more how it's all nonsense than looking into how the various Bibles came to be, what came before, leading back to the very first reliiogn. And no that isn't Judaism. Goes back tens of thousands of years religion, not 6000.

Do you doubt my religion because your culture has conditioned you to?