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Did you Support War in Iraq??

Did you support the War in Iraq?

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 31.5%
  • No

    Votes: 50 68.5%

  • Total voters
    73

Correll

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FUTURE generations need to know that only 4 of 10 Americans were the angry Islamophobic Christian culture Americans that got their big costly deadly unnecessary war only because the President of the United States A REPUBLICAN lied.

White washers like you need to be exposed so it never happens again.

LOL!!! Is that your point? Is that what this was all about?

I told you what it’s about a while ago.


We learned a lot about you as the conversation moved along.

One of the most interesting was this:

IMO, by the time of those "offers" Bush was just going though the motions.

He probably was .... going through the motions.. he is a liar.


Dishonest certainly. But if he truly thought that Saddam would never disarm, then going though the motions was not a "lie" so much as just trying to meet the expectations of various people, such as external and internal allies so as to get support for his policy.


That is reasonable. And part of his job as President.


That type of behavior would not bother you, if it was a war you supported, or if somehow the situation was reversed and the "going though the motions" was to AVOID a war, would it?
 

Correll

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I guess American cultural Christian paleo conservatives don’t pay much attention to history

“On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941.”


Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it.

We learned Correll will say ignorant things about the unnecessary killing of half a million Iraqis to find wmd, such as the WWII generation did it to the non-threat NAZI regime 80 years ago.


I do not remember SH declaring war on the United States after one of his allies in the effort for world domination bombed US Navy Ships as they sat in harbor in a surprise attack...

The bombing of Pearl Harbor surprised even Germany. Although Hitler had made an oral agreement with his Axis partner Japan that Germany would join a war against the United States, he was uncertain as to how the war would be engaged. Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor answered that question. On December 8, Japanese Ambassador Oshima went to German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop to nail the Germans down on a formal declaration of war against America. Von Ribbentrop stalled for time; he knew that Germany was under no obligation to do this under the terms of the Tripartite Pact, which promised help if Japan was attacked, but not if Japan was the aggressor. Von Ribbentrop feared that the addition of another antagonist, the United States, would overwhelm the German war effort.​
[Hitler] was convinced that the United States would soon beat him to the punch and declare war on Germany. The U.S. Navy was already attacking German U-boats, and Hitler despised Roosevelt for his repeated verbal attacks against his Nazi ideology. He also believed that Japan was much stronger than it was, that once it had defeated the United States, it would turn and help Germany defeat Russia. So at 3:30 p.m. (Berlin time) on December 11, the German charge d’affaires in Washington handed American Secretary of State Cordell Hull a copy of the declaration of war.​


SH’s IRAQ was heavily bombed by the US and UK during the SUMMER if 2003 But SH’s response was to invite the US and UK to enter Iraq to identify sites suspected of production and stockpiling of WMD.

I do not recall Iraq declaring war on the US whIle 2000 UN Inspectors were working on disarming Iraq peacefully.


Declaration of War on Germany, December 11, 1941​

On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941. Responding to President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s solemn affirmation that “the forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemispher​



I'm aware of all of that.


It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.
 

gipper

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I guess American cultural Christian paleo conservatives don’t pay much attention to history

“On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941.”


Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it.

We learned Correll will say ignorant things about the unnecessary killing of half a million Iraqis to find wmd, such as the WWII generation did it to the non-threat NAZI regime 80 years ago.


I do not remember SH declaring war on the United States after one of his allies in the effort for world domination bombed US Navy Ships as they sat in harbor in a surprise attack...

The bombing of Pearl Harbor surprised even Germany. Although Hitler had made an oral agreement with his Axis partner Japan that Germany would join a war against the United States, he was uncertain as to how the war would be engaged. Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor answered that question. On December 8, Japanese Ambassador Oshima went to German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop to nail the Germans down on a formal declaration of war against America. Von Ribbentrop stalled for time; he knew that Germany was under no obligation to do this under the terms of the Tripartite Pact, which promised help if Japan was attacked, but not if Japan was the aggressor. Von Ribbentrop feared that the addition of another antagonist, the United States, would overwhelm the German war effort.​
[Hitler] was convinced that the United States would soon beat him to the punch and declare war on Germany. The U.S. Navy was already attacking German U-boats, and Hitler despised Roosevelt for his repeated verbal attacks against his Nazi ideology. He also believed that Japan was much stronger than it was, that once it had defeated the United States, it would turn and help Germany defeat Russia. So at 3:30 p.m. (Berlin time) on December 11, the German charge d’affaires in Washington handed American Secretary of State Cordell Hull a copy of the declaration of war.​


SH’s IRAQ was heavily bombed by the US and UK during the SUMMER if 2003 But SH’s response was to invite the US and UK to enter Iraq to identify sites suspected of production and stockpiling of WMD.

I do not recall Iraq declaring war on the US whIle 2000 UN Inspectors were working on disarming Iraq peacefully.


Declaration of War on Germany, December 11, 1941​

On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941. Responding to President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s solemn affirmation that “the forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemispher​



I'm aware of all of that.


It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.
What the Iraq War should have taught every American is our federal government is a criminal enterprise and the war machine it operates needs termination. Sadly it appears Americans didn’t learn anything other than what the establishment demands they learn.
 

Correll

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I guess American cultural Christian paleo conservatives don’t pay much attention to history

“On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941.”


Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it.

We learned Correll will say ignorant things about the unnecessary killing of half a million Iraqis to find wmd, such as the WWII generation did it to the non-threat NAZI regime 80 years ago.


I do not remember SH declaring war on the United States after one of his allies in the effort for world domination bombed US Navy Ships as they sat in harbor in a surprise attack...

The bombing of Pearl Harbor surprised even Germany. Although Hitler had made an oral agreement with his Axis partner Japan that Germany would join a war against the United States, he was uncertain as to how the war would be engaged. Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor answered that question. On December 8, Japanese Ambassador Oshima went to German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop to nail the Germans down on a formal declaration of war against America. Von Ribbentrop stalled for time; he knew that Germany was under no obligation to do this under the terms of the Tripartite Pact, which promised help if Japan was attacked, but not if Japan was the aggressor. Von Ribbentrop feared that the addition of another antagonist, the United States, would overwhelm the German war effort.​
[Hitler] was convinced that the United States would soon beat him to the punch and declare war on Germany. The U.S. Navy was already attacking German U-boats, and Hitler despised Roosevelt for his repeated verbal attacks against his Nazi ideology. He also believed that Japan was much stronger than it was, that once it had defeated the United States, it would turn and help Germany defeat Russia. So at 3:30 p.m. (Berlin time) on December 11, the German charge d’affaires in Washington handed American Secretary of State Cordell Hull a copy of the declaration of war.​


SH’s IRAQ was heavily bombed by the US and UK during the SUMMER if 2003 But SH’s response was to invite the US and UK to enter Iraq to identify sites suspected of production and stockpiling of WMD.

I do not recall Iraq declaring war on the US whIle 2000 UN Inspectors were working on disarming Iraq peacefully.


Declaration of War on Germany, December 11, 1941​

On December 8, 1941, one day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States declared war on Japan. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941. Responding to President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s solemn affirmation that “the forces endeavoring to enslave the entire world now are moving toward this hemispher​



I'm aware of all of that.


It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.
What the Iraq War should have taught every American is our federal government is a criminal enterprise and the war machine it operates needs termination. Sadly it appears Americans didn’t learn anything other than what the establishment demands they learn.


Well, I will agree that we learned a lot of bad habits during the cold war, for obvious reasons, and now need to unlearn them.


Pretending that it was all because "Bush lied" or "had daddy issues" is just partisan slop.
 

NotfooledbyW

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That type of behavior would not bother you,


It certainly would. I stick with facts and demand honesty from my government when it is dealing with matters that will kill innocent civilians and destroy what they need to survive with America’s unprecedented means for war.


So quit your damn lying about what I think.
 

Correll

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That type of behavior would not bother you,


It certainly would. I stick with facts and demand honesty from my government when it is dealing with matters that will kill innocent civilians and destroy what they need to survive with America’s unprecedented means for war.


So quit your damn lying about what I think.


I specifically offered as a scenario if it was reversed to stop a war.

Diplomacy and politics sometimes require levels of deception. You are being... unrealistically simplistic to deny that.
 

NotfooledbyW

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Diplomacy and politics sometimes require levels of deception.


“Sometimes” is bullshit. Never is called being moral. That time, BUSH’s lies and deception caused needless deaths and destruction and waste of our national security resources.

When W decided publicly to reject Cheney’s rush to war argument in September 2002 in favor of Powell’s diplomatic, avoid war if possible means, as he was digging up support from Congress to get the AUMF passed in Congress, Senator Clinton was told by the White House that if he got a AUMF it would force inspections and if it forced inspections in it would cause peace.

“Bush Sends Congress a Proposed Resolution on Iraq By Todd S. Purdum and Elisabeth Bumiller Sept. 19, 2002 WASHINGTON, Sept. 19 - President Bush asked Congress today for sweeping authority to use ``all means he determines to be appropriate, including force'' to disarm Iraq and dislodge Saddam Hussein, and warned: ``If the United Nations Security Council won't deal with the problem, the United States and some of our friends will.''”


“ `If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force,'' Mr. Bush told reporters in the Oval Office after meeting with Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and other senior officials working to overcome French and Russian resistance in the Security Council and draft a new resolution there holding Iraq to account.”

You claim W was going through the motions the whole time. That means he lied to US Senators that took him at his word and gave him the authority to use force if SH refused to let inspectors in.


You are a despicable human being and a worse American for excusing W’s lies that show his absolute disrespect for the Separation of Powers on a matter of war. Senators gave W what he wanted but he shit on them after getting what he ‘politically’ wanted. And went through the motions you say.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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I'm aware of all of that.

It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.

When Germany declared war on the United States it was a direct threat. You point is absurd to make your false equivalence between Germany and Iraq.

Any comparison between the threat level based on industrial and military capability between Iraq and Germany is beyond absurd. It is so absurd it is obnoxious that you would stoop so low to go there,
.
 

NotfooledbyW

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You made a point. That Iraq was not a threat to our nation when we decided to invade.

My counter point was that nazi german was not a threat to us when we declared war on them.

It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.

Your earlier post did not mention “direct” threat as seen above.

I agree with all the Dems that voted yes in October to the AUMF under the conditions that Bush set.


“Reporter: Mr. President, how important is it that that resolution give you an authorization of the use of force?
Bush: That will be part of the resolution, the authorization to use force. If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force. This is a chance for Congress to indicate support. It's a chance for Congress to say, "We support the administration's ability to keep the peace." That's what this is all about.”


Had Saddam Hussein refused to let inspectors in after 1441 I would have supported the invasion as long as Bush took his time and prepared the troops for nation building before going in. Wait until September as Biden recommended. No real risk to take a little longer.

That’s not a response to a direct threat in that case - its a matter of enforcing international law.


But Saddam let the inspectors in. But I don’t insist that war cannot be necessary if it is not a response to a direct attack.

The Taliban did not directly attack us, but taking them out for harboring al Qaeda was justified when W exercised our inherent right of self-defense in response to terrorist attacks .

The better example is the First Gulf War which I supported because it was done with a broad coalition of international and regional support. It was limited to the defined mission and was successfully executed.

SH was not a direct threat to the US at the time if the First Gulf Ear.
 

NotfooledbyW

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That is the crux of our disagreement. We disagree whether all possible peaceful solutions were exhausted.


We are not having a disagreement. You are trying to force one of your many escaped from reality into the discussion. This one you have debunked when you said you believe W was only ‘going through the motions’ because he really didn’t believe Iraq would be disarmed peacefully. If W was going through the motions it means he wasn’t really exhausting anything in the hopes of avoiding military conflict. W was with Cheney the whole time who thought going to the UN was a bad idea because it would muck up the exaggerated justification for war that he worked so hard to establish outside the real intelligence services.
 

Correll

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I'm aware of all of that.

It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.

When Germany declared war on the United States it was a direct threat. You point is absurd to make your false equivalence between Germany and Iraq.

Any comparison between the threat level based on industrial and military capability between Iraq and Germany is beyond absurd. It is so absurd it is obnoxious that you would stoop so low to go there,
.


Germany was pretty busy at the time. It was unlikely to be able to directly attack America any time soon.


It was you that set the bar at "DIRECT" not me.
 

Correll

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You made a point. That Iraq was not a threat to our nation when we decided to invade.

My counter point was that nazi german was not a threat to us when we declared war on them.

It supports my point that a direct threat to our nation is not the only reason to declare war.

Your earlier post did not mention “direct” threat as seen above.

...

Correct. I was referencing to your earlier position. Which, it being yours, you should be able to remember.
 

Correll

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That is the crux of our disagreement. We disagree whether all possible peaceful solutions were exhausted.


We are not having a disagreement. You are trying to force one of your many escaped from reality into the discussion. This one you have debunked when you said you believe W was only ‘going through the motions’ because he really didn’t believe Iraq would be disarmed peacefully. If W was going through the motions it means he wasn’t really exhausting anything in the hopes of avoiding military conflict. W was with Cheney the whole time who thought going to the UN was a bad idea because it would muck up the exaggerated justification for war that he worked so hard to establish outside the real intelligence services.


If Bush "really didn't believe that Iraq would be disarmed peacefully", then he believed that.

You cannot then judge him actions as though he agreed with you, that Saddam might have been disarmed peacefully.


That you cannot grasp that, is a serious flaw in your...thinking.


Really, I almost HOPE that you are being dishonest there, because if you really cannot grasp that, that is a serious flaw in your intellectual development.
 

NotfooledbyW

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Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it. You are just an asshole.

Where in the above argument do you mention “direct threat” when you made a point that “ Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it”?

In October 2002 I accepted easily that Saddam Hussein posed unique threat in a post -9-11 World because he kicked inspectors out in 1998 and was in violation of international law. Eliminating the threat was conditional on what SH chose to do with regard to allowing inspectors back in.

I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, because he potentially had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like al Qaeda, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. But I preferred that threat be eliminated through the UN if possible just like 6 out 10 Americans believed with me.


Nothing but crap from you:
I was referencing to your earlier position. Which, it being yours, you should be able to remember.

You are a liar. And my memory is fine because I don’t confuse myself by lying and making stuff up all the time.


Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it. You are just an asshole.
 

Correll

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Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it. You are just an asshole.

Where in the above argument do you mention “direct threat” when you made a point that “ Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it”?

In October 2002 I accepted easily that Saddam Hussein posed unique threat in a post -9-11 World because he kicked inspectors out in 1998 and was in violation of international law. Eliminating the threat was conditional on what SH chose to do with regard to allowing inspectors back in.

I saw a unique threat in Saddam Hussein, because he potentially had weapons of mass destruction. And the unique threat was that he could give weapons of mass destruction to an organization like al Qaeda, and the harm they inflicted on us with airplanes would be multiplied greatly by weapons of mass destruction. And that was the serious, serious threat. But I preferred that threat be eliminated through the UN if possible just like 6 out 10 Americans believed with me.


Nothing but crap from you:
I was referencing to your earlier position. Which, it being yours, you should be able to remember.

You are a liar. And my memory is fine because I don’t confuse myself by lying and making stuff up all the time.


Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it. You are just an asshole.


I recall you making a point about iraq not being a direct threat. My response was in response to that.
 

NotfooledbyW

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If Bush "really didn't believe that Iraq would be disarmed peacefully", then he believed that.

You cannot then judge him actions as though he agreed with you, that Saddam might have been disarmed peacefully.

I’m not judging him. I know for a fact he told my Senators in Virginia that he preferred to exhaust all means possible before resorting to war if they voted to give him authorization to use military force if UNSC WMD Resolutions could not be enforced by peaceful means.


If what you say is true about going through the motions then he lied to Congress about the need for war. He is a corrupt liar and was unfit to be President abd must never be respected for dishonesty in that office.
 

Correll

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If Bush "really didn't believe that Iraq would be disarmed peacefully", then he believed that.

You cannot then judge him actions as though he agreed with you, that Saddam might have been disarmed peacefully.

I’m not judging him. I know for a fact he told my Senators in Virginia that he preferred to exhaust all means possible before resorting to war if they voted to give him authorization to use military force if UNSC WMD Resolutions could not be enforced by peaceful means.


If what you say is true about going through the motions then he lied to Congress about the need for war. He is a corrupt liar and was unfit to be President abd must never be respected for dishonesty in that office.


That is funny. You state that you are not judging him and then you IMMEDIATELY JUDGE HIM.

I have often commented that liberals have all the self awareness of a potted plant. IF that potted plant was dead.
 

NotfooledbyW

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That is funny. You state that you are not judging him and then you IMMEDIATELY JUDGE HIM.


I’m not judging W. I’m testifying that what he did was a lie. I’m telling you that he said ``If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force,' to my Senators. He lied to Congress.

You can’t refute my testimony so you whine that I’m judging him unfairly.

If we can’t criticize a President who lies to Congress what can we criticize?


You support W for lying. You have no morals or decency.,
 

NotfooledbyW

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I recall you making a point about iraq not being a direct threat. My response was in response to that.

Your recall sucks.


HERE’s what went down.


NotfooledbyW
* May 29, 2021
* #1,205
Starting a war against a weak nation militarily that was “AT THAT TIME” zero threat to our national security or peace in the region in order to nation build is depraved enough.


Correll
* May 29, 2021
* #1,212
1. Starting a war with a nation that is not a threat to us is not depraved. Nazi Germany was not a threat to our nation, when we declared war on it. You are just an asshole.


NotfooledbyW
* May 30, 2021
* #1,252
Was weak Iraq invaded by the most powerful military on earth at that time? Was Iraq (with 200 UN INSPECTORS On the ground) a threat to its neighbors or to the rest of the world at that time? Was IRAQ a threat to The UNITED STATES of AMERICA when the March 2003 BLITZKIEG was launched by GEORGE W BUSH into Iraq?


Correll
* May 30, 2021
* #1,253
You made a point. That Iraq was not a threat to our nation when we decided to invade.

My counter point was that nazi german was not a threat to us when we declared war on them.

A nation being a direct threat to you, is not a requirement for a Just War.


NotfooledbyW
* May 30, 2021
* #1,255
Do you believe that is true? YES or NO?


Correll
* May 30, 2021
* #1,259
My agreement was implied when I made the point that there were other times that we declared war with a nation that did not threaten US.

So to be clear, YES, I agree that Iraq did not directly threaten us.

BUT, DO YOU AGREE THAT NOT BEING DIRECTLY THREATENED, is not a bar to war? as in my example with Nazi Germany?

Or do you think that our declaration of war on Nazi Germany was a mistake?
 
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