Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

[montelatici]

After WW1 the idea that it was normal for an established colonial power (Britain) , or a colonial wannabe power (Italy) to establish a colony for Europeans at the expense of the native people was extremist in itself.

 

[there4eyeM]

If the 'kibutz' movement had happened in quiet areas of America, somewhat like the Amish, the Jewish survivors of Europe's horrors could easily have integrated into the US and Canada. Congregating in the middle of a volatile area and people, where the past does not bode well for the future, cannot be seen as entirely prudent.

 

[louie888]

You really need to pick a point and settle on it. Is the problem that Jews are inherently unable to live in peace with anyone, as you first articulated? Or is it specifically the problem of the formation of Israel, which you articulate with a bastardized meme which inaccurately portrays Ben Gurion's words?

History shows that Jews are inherently unable to live in peace with anyone AND formation of Israel was destined for failure from the start and could never - AND I MEAN EVER - bode well for peace.

And the quote from mass murderer, war criminal ben gurion is 100% accurate and illustrates the above clearly.

 

[there4eyeM]

Sorry, I must withdraw from this thread. I do not want to be associated with what is being said here.

 

[montelatici]

... more than a third of the Palestinians would have been relegated to be ruled by Jews permanently.

Oh no! The HORROR! To be ruled by Jews.

Yes, especially if those people had hoped (and had been promised) to achieve independence as the overwhelming majority of the land of their ancestors, only to be presented a future of permanent rule by people from another continent. Are you too brainwashed to understand what a disaster that would be for a people?

 

[flacaltenn]

Let's cut the shit and discuss the OP "list"....

First of all --- If it were ME --- I'd wear a badge of HONOR for being expelled from any VisiGoth or Hunn empire. Ditto to a lot of the fanatical Christian THEOCRACIES that existed before the Enlightment. Says WAY more about the Dark Ages and THEM --- than it does the Jews.

And then BY RANDOM -- I picked another more recent expulsion. Listed as Netherland -- 1582.. And it's a not as clean as the LIST appears to make it. Ordinances VARIED among the provinces of the Netherlands. And just PRIOR to 1582 there was little Central govt coordination. In fact --- there WAS NO NETHERLANDS !!! Policies were driven more by allegiances and treaties with the German Empire or other allies.. So I quote from the Wiki --- "History of the Jews in the Netherlands"


In 1477, by the marriage of Mary of Burgundy to the Archduke Maximilian, son of Emperor Frederick III, the Netherlands were united to Austria and its possessions passed to the crown of Spain. In the sixteenth century, owing to the persecutions of Charles V and Philip II of Spain, the Netherlands became involved in a series of desperate and heroic struggles against this growing political and religious hegemony. In 1522, Charles V issued a proclamation in Gelderland and Utrecht against Christians who were suspected of being lax in the faith, as well as against Jews who had not been baptized; he repeated such edicts in 1545 and 1549, as the Reformation grew. In 1571 the Duke of Alba notified the authorities of Arnhem that all Jews living there should be seized and held until the disposition to be made of them had been determined upon. At Dutch request, Archduke Mattias established religious peace in most of the provinces, which was later guaranteed by article 13 of the 1579 Unie van Utrecht.[3] Moreover, in 1581, the deputies of the United Provinces memorably declared independence by issuing the Act of Abjuration, which deposed Philip as their sovereign. As a consequence of these two events the Jews persecuted in Spain and Portugal turned toward the Dutch Republic as a new place of refuge.

Ruh Roh... What are chances that Louis wants to discuss ANY of the items on his "list" ?? Seems like any ONE of them is a lot less clear than ole Louie 88's would lead you to believe........

NOW -- are we "on topic" Louie??? Let's discuss ALL of those after say 1450 or so...

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Jewish people have not been 'fiercely persecuted' in North America.

That's true. And what?

 

[Shusha]

Let's cut the shit. The idea that the Jewish people are inherently unable to play nice with others is anti-semitism, pure and simple.

Its akin to saying women are inherently sinful because they are raped in every country they live in.

 

[louie888]

Let's cut the shit and discuss the OP "list"....

First of all --- If it were ME --- I'd wear a badge of HONOR for being expelled from any VisiGoth or Hunn empire. Ditto to a lot of the fanatical Christian THEOCRACIES that existed before the Enlightment. Says WAY more about the Dark Ages and THEM --- than it does the Jews....

So Jews got kicked out for being so cool? And is Israel not a theocracy (should I ask on a different thread even tho you brought it up)?

And sorry, had no idea what you wanted me to respond to with your long cut and paste.

 

[louie888]

Let's cut the shit. The idea that the Jewish people are inherently unable to play nice with others is anti-semitism, pure and simple....

The anti-Semite card is long worn out and history shows clearly Jews have been inherently unable to play nice with others.

 

[teddyearp]

I know that Jews should not lie, steel or murder. Day one stuff there.

What is 'steeling'? Are you saying that they forbidden to make an alloy from iron and other elements, primarily carbon?

 

[teddyearp]

Ahh, the predictable meltdown.

 

[flacaltenn]

Let's cut the shit and discuss the OP "list"....

First of all --- If it were ME --- I'd wear a badge of HONOR for being expelled from any VisiGoth or Hunn empire. Ditto to a lot of the fanatical Christian THEOCRACIES that existed before the Enlightment. Says WAY more about the Dark Ages and THEM --- than it does the Jews....

So Jews got kicked out for being so cool? And is Israel not a theocracy (should I ask on a different thread even tho you brought it up)?

And sorry, had no idea what you wanted me to respond to with your long cut and paste.

If you consider that -- just a "long cut/paste" then you apparently have no interest in the actual history of ANY of those "expulsions" ... The one I picked out was a time when the Netherlands didn't actually exist as independent as was previously under various influences from Spain, France, Germany and other superpowers in the thros of very NASTY Theocratic tyrannies.. Far from being the aggressors in this nascent Christian drama -- the Jews were victims as were a large fraction of non-compliant Christians..

I'm afraid if you want to discuss the topic --- you might have to wade thru a couple thousand years of history to get to an ACTUAL FACTUAL list of occasions where the "Jews did not live in Peacce with their hosts".. And when you narrow that list down to instances where they played politics or fomented revolt --- you'd be left with a list as tiny as your brain.....

 

[louie888]

But they have been thrown out of over 100 nations prior to being thrust upon the Palestinians. You don't think it was because of their behavior while others disagree, but simply based on this, the world should have known that it would not bode well for peace.

 

[flacaltenn]

But they have been thrown out of over 100 nations prior to being thrust upon the Palestinians. You don't think it was because of their behavior while others disagree, but simply based on this, the world should have known that it would not bode well for peace.

Seems like you're ignoring the history I just discussed about the Visigoths and the Hunns and the Spanish Inquisition and the Netherlands. That's a LOT to ignore and shows how bias and untruthful MOST of that list actually is.. Doesn't it Mr. 88's??

 

[flacaltenn]

How long were they EXPELLED from the Netherlands (if indeed that's true and not just from a couple provinces) before the NETHERLANDS became a HAVEN for Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition? How many HUNDREDS of years of this ping-pong abuse does it take before any people rise up and demand self-government????

 

[louie888]

But they have been thrown out of over 100 nations prior to being thrust upon the Palestinians. You don't think it was because of their behavior while others disagree, but simply based on this, the world should have known that it would not bode well for peace.

Seems like you're ignoring the history I just discussed about the Visigoths and the Hunns and the Spanish Inquisition and the Netherlands. That's a LOT to ignore and shows how bias and untruthful MOST of that list actually is.. Doesn't it Mr. 88's??

I'm not ignoring it. But if you are denying Jewish expulsions throughout history then you are wrong.

Even the Jewish virtual library with all their spin does not deny these expulsions...
Expulsions

 

[louie888]

How long were they EXPELLED from the Netherlands (if indeed that's true and not just from a couple provinces) before the NETHERLANDS became a HAVEN for Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition? How many HUNDREDS of years of this ping-pong abuse does it take before any people rise up and demand self-government????

LOL. Who cares? And how does this little "point" have a damn thing to do with:

Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

 

[flacaltenn]

How long were they EXPELLED from the Netherlands (if indeed that's true and not just from a couple provinces) before the NETHERLANDS became a HAVEN for Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition? How many HUNDREDS of years of this ping-pong abuse does it take before any people rise up and demand self-government????

LOL. Who cares? And how does this little "point" have a damn thing to do with:

Did anyone really believe that the UN giving Palestine to extremist Jews would bode well for peace?

All that history matters -- because your BASIC PREMISE -- your "list" -- lacks THOUSANDS of years of historical context in which nearly EVERYONE who wasn't connected to monarchies or THE Church were victims.. So the list is SHIT to claim that the Jews were aggressors, agitators, or didn't want "peace".

If you want to ABANDON that list -- and not DEFEND it -- I guess you now need a new thread huh??

 

[louie888]

I never abandoned it lol, I posted the JVL link. Take it up with the Jewish virtual library if you still don't get it.