Zone1 did Adam live for 930 years and Noah for 950 years?

[DukeU]

OK, point of question now. Was the Tree of Knowledge literally the tree of all knowledge of both good and evil, or merely just the tree of knowledge of the /DIFFERENCE/ between good and evil?

I don't see a difference?

Explain.

 

[DukeU]

You are correct that he didn't create robots and did create being with free will. However, God knowing the end from the beginning knew what Adam and Eve would do with their free will when tempted by Satan. He knew the would partake of the forbidden fruit way before he even placed them on earth in the Garden of Eden. And this why he called a Savior before the foundation of this earth also because he knew in advance that they would eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and fall.

Now even though God knew that Adam and Eve would fall even before he created the earth, He still went ahead and allowed Satan to be on the earth and allowed Satan to tempt them. And even though God knew about the fall before placing Adam and Eve in the Garden, He still placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the Garden and commanded them not to partake of it and told them if they did they would surely die.

You would think that if God absolutely did not want Adam and Eve to fall, He could have avoided it by never sending Satan to this earth and never placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden with his associated commandment. So, knowing in advance that they would fall, God went ahead and placed Satan on earth to tempt them and He also put the tree in the garden knowing full well that they would go against his commandment and fall. Doesn't this come across as illogical if God did not want them to fall? He knew in advance they would fall and yet went ahead and made sure that Satan was there to tempt them and that the tree and commandment was there knowing full well they would succumb to the temptation and fall.

I suggest to you that God wanted mankind to go through a fallen world and learn good from evil by experiencing it directly. He even called and foreordained a Savior before the foundation of the world and before Adam and Eve had even fallen. He planned ahead for the fall!! He knew and expected it to occur and even placed Satan and tree on earth to make sure it would happen. The fall of man was part of the plan for mankind to advance and become more like God. The salvation of mankind was also part of the overall plan.

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Why would God want man to experience murder, disease, death, etc?

What he wanted was for man to fill the Earth and have dominion over it. He clearly laid out instruction for what to do and what not to do.

You absolutely can't have LOVE without free will and that's why the tree was there.

 

[toobfreak]

I don't see a difference?
Explain.

One is the tree containing all good knowledge and all bad knowledge; ie, all knowledge, all knowledge of good and evil.

The other is mere the tree of the knowledge of the /difference/ between good and evil.

Genesis says: "And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die."

This raises NEW questions.

1. Was this a tree merely of knowledge that there was a good and evil?
2. God told Adam he may freely eat of any tree in the garden, wouldn't that include the tree of knowledge?
3. Adam and Eve never died, so did they not eat of the tree or did God exaggerate (or perhaps mean be made mortal?).
4. God told ADAM not to eat of the tree of knowledge, Eve wasn't even created yet. The God made Eve from his rib. Eve then ate the apple first. Did God's edict even apply to her since she wasn't there when bartered?

 

[HikerGuy83]

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Was there a point?

And, of course, you don't address the other issues.

What's the matter? Can't find scriptures to twist to make your point?

 

[onefour1]

Why would God want man to experience murder, disease, death, etc?

What he wanted was for man to fill the Earth and have dominion over it. He clearly laid out instruction for what to do and what not to do.

You absolutely can't have LOVE without free will and that's why the tree was there.

This life is temporary. We do not experience these things into eternity. But we are given the experience of this life to come to a knowledge of not just good but also evil. By knowing both good and evil we can choose which of the two is most favorable. We gain a greater appreciate for good and hopefully use our free will to always choose good over evil. But some do not learn that lesson and choose evil over good. Eventually, all mankind will be saved from death, disease, and other detriments due to the grace of Jesus Christ in granting to all mankind immortal life through the resurrection. In the future we will all look back at our mortal lives as great learning experience and hopefully be grateful for our immortal bodies that never get sick or die. Having the experience and understanding of death, disease and evil things such as murder make us more wise and appreciative of our future immortal existence.

I agree that free will is critical to God's overall plan of salvation. We cannot truly be good beings in and of ourselves without free will to choose good over evil of our own free will and choice. Partaking of the tree placed us in a situation where we would temporarily experience both good and evil and learn and know of ourselves firsthand the detriments of evil.

 

[HikerGuy83]

15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Yes, you keep posting the same thing. Unless the words have changed, then neither has your lack of a point.

 

[DukeU]

One is the tree containing all good knowledge and all bad knowledge; ie, all knowledge, all knowledge of good and evil.

The other is mere the tree of the knowledge of the /difference/ between good and evil.

Genesis says: "And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die."

This raises NEW questions.

1. Was this a tree merely of knowledge that there was a good and evil?
2. God told Adam he may freely eat of any tree in the garden, wouldn't that include the tree of knowledge?
3. Adam and Eve never died, so did they not eat of the tree or did God exaggerate (or perhaps mean be made mortal?).
4. God told ADAM not to eat of the tree of knowledge, Eve wasn't even created yet. The God made Eve from his rib. Eve then ate the apple first. Did God's edict even apply to her since she wasn't there when bartered?

1. Yes, I believe it was just knowledge there was good and evil.

2. No, he clearly made a distinction between what could and couldn't be eaten.

3. Adam and Eve are still alive?

4. The first few scriptures in Genisis 3 clearly show Eve knew of God's instruction.

 

[DukeU]

Was there a point?

And, of course, you don't address the other issues.

What's the matter? Can't find scriptures to twist to make your point?

I've posted scripture to back up my beliefs.

You on the other hand have not.

 

[HikerGuy83]

This life is temporary.

Not in DukeU's world. Apparently Adam and Eve were going to be mindless little puppies for eternity. Having more mindless little puppies. For what purpose, we have not been told. Looking at various web pages that try to explain it, they are totally worthless in presenting anything of substance.

I agree that this life, what we call mortality, was for a time. Also, I believe that mortality has a specific purpose associated with the opposition and the demonstration of our faith on a day by day basis because we KNOW GOOD FROM EVIL. We are not oblivious.

We do not experience these things into eternity.

Again, for some unknown reason, that was apparently supposed to be the case. It's incredible to imagine that anyone can think that abstinence from the tree would have gone on forever. Someone was going to bite into the fruit. Eternity is so much more than mortality.

But again, here we don't get an answer to the question of whether or not Christ would have been necessary had our first parents not transgressed (as opposed to sinning in open rebellion) and experiencing the natural consequence of their actions.

We cannot truly be good beings in and of ourselves without free will to choose good over evil of our own free will and choice. Partaking of the tree placed us in a situation where we would temporarily experience both good and evil and learn and know of ourselves firsthand the detriments of evil.

It was stated that they had become "like the gods" in this regard.

We are counseled to attain the full measure of the stature of Christ. How do you do that without knowing good from evil.

And again......

Hey, don't eat the fruit.....

And never mind that devil that appears to live in the garden too.

 

[HikerGuy83]

I've posted scripture to back up my beliefs.

You on the other hand have not.

The scriptures you post don't back up anything.

You are making presumptions based on those scriptures.

Keep trying.

 

[DukeU]

This life is temporary. We do not experience these things into eternity. But we are given the experience of this life to come to a knowledge of not just good but also evil. By knowing both good and evil we can choose which of the two is most favorable. We gain a greater appreciate for good and hopefully use our free will to always choose good over evil. But some do not learn that lesson and choose evil over good. Eventually, all mankind will be saved from death, disease, and other detriments due to the grace of Jesus Christ in granting to all mankind immortal life through the resurrection. In the future we will all look back at our mortal lives as great learning experience and hopefully be grateful for our immortal bodies that never get sick or die. Having the experience and understanding of death, disease and evil things such as murder make us more wise and appreciative of our future immortal existence.

I agree that free will is critical to God's overall plan of salvation. We cannot truly be good beings in and of ourselves without free will to choose good over evil of our own free will and choice. Partaking of the tree placed us in a situation where we would temporarily experience both good and evil and learn and know of ourselves firsthand the detriments of evil.

We have these experiences because of original sin.

God didn't want for us to sin, that makes no sense.

That's why he gave instruction on what to do and what not to do.

 

[DukeU]

The scriptures you post don't back up anything.

You are making presumptions based on those scriptures.

Keep trying.

Still no scripture eh?

 

[DukeU]

We are counseled to attain the full measure of the stature of Christ. How do you do that without knowing good from evil.

Did Christ eat of that tree?

Asking for a friend.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Still no scripture eh?

We are even in that regard.

 

[HikerGuy83]

Did Christ eat of that tree?

Asking for a friend.

In essence yes

 

[DukeU]

In essence yes

LOL

Making things up again I see.

 

[HikerGuy83]

One is the tree containing all good knowledge and all bad knowledge; ie, all knowledge, all knowledge of good and evil.

The other is mere the tree of the knowledge of the /difference/ between good and evil.

Genesis says: "And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die."

This raises NEW questions.

1. Was this a tree merely of knowledge that there was a good and evil?
2. God told Adam he may freely eat of any tree in the garden, wouldn't that include the tree of knowledge?
3. Adam and Eve never died, so did they not eat of the tree or did God exaggerate (or perhaps mean be made mortal?).
4. God told ADAM not to eat of the tree of knowledge, Eve wasn't even created yet. The God made Eve from his rib. Eve then ate the apple first. Did God's edict even apply to her since she wasn't there when bartered?

Yes, their transgression would bring death into the world. That was the consequence of eating of the tree.

At the same time, their "eyes were opened". Now just what that means in terms of pre-fruit vs post-fruit hasn't been explained by our resident stuck-on-Genesis blatherings. And the description was that they would be as the gods, knowing good and evil. What didn't they know prior to the fruit. What kind of life was that.

One site says they were created for companionship for God. What a crock. I am sure He'd do better with a puppy. And why put the tree there? And why let Satan roam the grounds if you know his desire is to pull man down?

Next? What about that Tree of Life. Says that if Adam and Eve had eaten it, they would have lived forever. This is in the last three versus of Genesis. Problem solved! Just eat that fruit. But God kicked them out and guarded the tree so they would not live forever. Hmmmm.......is someone confused?

 

[HikerGuy83]

LOL

Making things up again I see.

Is that what your friend said?

Exodus 20:16: bearing false witness (lying) and all that.

 

[DukeU]

Is that what your friend said?

Exodus 20:16: bearing false witness (lying) and all that.

No, I said it.

And it's not false.

Jesus was born perfect and died perfect.

He was without sin.

 

[onefour1]

We have these experiences because of original sin.

God didn't want for us to sin, that makes no sense.

That's why he gave instruction on what to do and what not to do.

This line of reasoning leads to the philosophical question of "Why didn't God just make us perfect with a perfect knowledge of good and evil so that we wouldn't need to experience this mortal life in the first place?". What are your thoughts regarding this question? If God didn't want us to sin, then why place Satan in the garden along with the tree of knowledge of good and evil and knowing full well that they would partake?