Zone1 Was Eve expelled from Eden, or did she leave with Adam?

[Divine Wind]

You aren’t the first person to have difficulty reconciling the two testaments. My explanation is that you are reading the OT wrong.

You are getting confused by Jewish embellishment. Most people do.

The OT presents God as possessing both mercy and punitive (judgmental) attributes, often describing them as working together rather than in opposition. Although the Old Testament is often associated with God's punishment, it mentions God's mercy over four times as much as the New Testament.

The OT describes God as "merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy". Examples of mercy include... Holding back judgment to allow time for change, as in the case of the Amalekites. Forgiving Israel throughout its history. Jesus paying the debt of sin for humanity.

The same passage that calls God merciful also states that He "does not let the guilty go unpunished". The OT notes that punishing the wicked is a "strange act" and that God takes no pleasure in it. God's punitive side is a result of His justice, while His mercy is shown through sparing people from the punishment they deserve.

Sorry, no confusion. As pointed out elsewhere, ancient writings about spirituality are merely human perspectives. The Nordics believed Thor was tossing thunderbolts as a way to understand thunder and lightning.

The ancients saw volcanoes, earthquakes and floods as the wrath of God, not natural occurences in a natural universe.

2000 years later, people were a little more sophisticated allowing a kindler, gentler preception of both God and our spiritual natures.

 

[Divine Wind]

I agree. Both were trying to revolutionize society with electric power experimenting with AC vs DC, similar ideas, different approach, but they shared the same motive.

On the other hand many have claimed to be the (Jewish) Messiah, one man, but that is something no one else in heaven on earth or under the earth could ever do even if they lived forever. The messiah is supposed to bring a new revelation from God, never heard before that when revealed is so obvious people will slap themselves on the head feeling stupid for missing it, creating a new heaven and a new earth, providing evidence that God reigns over the minds and lives of all people by either granting or denying comprehension, life itself.

That revelation comes from 1 man, enlightened by God. It can't be faked or competed with.

The proof is in the pudding. And if you don't eat your meat you can't have any pudding!

Great album!

Not an expert, but below are what Jews consider to be the traits of the Messiah. Note that it's been 2000 years and neither world peace has occurred nor have all the Jews gathered together which may explain why so many Christians place a lot of importance on "the Second Coming".

Jewish Concepts: The Messiah

A discussion of the Jewish conception of the Messiah.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Most significantly, Jewish tradition affirms at least five things about the Messiah. He will: be a descendant of King David, gain sovereignty over the land of Israel, gather the Jews there from the four corners of the earth, restore them to full observance of Torah law, and, as a grand finale, bring peace to the whole world. Concerning the more difficult tasks some prophets assign him, such as Isaiah’s vision of a messianic age in which the wolf shall dwell with the lamb and the calf with the young lion (Isaiah 11:6), Maimonides believes that Isaiah’s language is metaphorical (for example, only that enemies of the Jews, likened to the wolf, will no longer oppress them). A century later, Nachmanides rejected Maimonides’s rationalism and asserted that Isaiah meant precisely what he said: that in the messianic age even wild animals will become domesticated and sweet-tempered. A more recent Jewish “commentator,” Woody Allen, has cautioned: “And the lamb and the wolf shall lie down together, but the lamb won’t get any sleep.”

 

[hobelim]

The ancients saw volcanoes, earthquakes and floods as the wrath of God, not natural occurences in a natural universe.

I agree. Thats being said, according to scripture, God uses natural occurrences that many saw as Divine protection, as in the ten plagues that follow a natural sequence of events, most likely the result of the explosion of the Santorini caldera which would also explains burning hail falling from the sky including the parting of the sea of reeds which sounds like a tsunami first exposing dry land and then sweeping away the Egyptian army following from behind.

Also there is the Burckle Crater, 25 times the size of meteor crater in Arizona, dated to the approximate time of the story of Gilgamesh, under 12000 feet of water on the bottom of the Indian ocean. An impact crater this size would have instantly vaporized billions of metric tons of water into the atmosphere, causing mega tsunamis, and a mind boggling world wide deluge of superstorms etc., that would have lasted for weeks, sweeping away coastal cities and every town village and hamlet situated near rivers streams brooks and even dry washes in the desert ON EVERY CONTINENT. People would have thought there was an angry God up there somewhere with the power to destroy the planet. Maybe thats why people all over the world started sacrificing virgins to appease this God lest they incur his wrath. That doesn't mean they were wrong. An otherworldly superior intelligence could easily have nudged and asteroid in earths direction because the people of the time were extremely screwed up. Earthlings have the knowledge and the technology to do this now.

 

[hobelim]

A more recent Jewish “commentator,” Woody Allen, has cautioned: “And the lamb and the wolf shall lie down together, but the lamb won’t get any sleep.”

lol. Thanks.

What many people fail to realize is that the story of "The Christ" has always been, from the beginning, a story only half told to be completed in what was once a far distant future.

That being said, Jewish messianic expectations were then, and remain for many now, as completely irrational as Christian expectations are for the second coming of "The Christ".

According to the Dead Sea war scroll the messiah was going to commit genocide against the Romans with a magical sword and God was going to fart fiery angels out of the sky to join in the blood bath. "even wild animals will become domesticated and sweet-tempered."

Seems a bit contradictory to me.

I can show you how Jesus did fulfill every single one of the Jewish messianic expectations that you posted, but I don't have the time right now. I spent my 40 days and 40 nights living in the wilderness among the wild beasts and made many friends along the way. So I am expected to attend a party with sinners and prostitutes and very bad Roman characters.

You will never know the day or the hour.... but... I'll be back!

Veni. Vidi. Abii.