Did a historical Jesus exist?

[pacer]

Do you think there may be some connection between the subject of 40 years of wandering in the wilderness of sin and Jesus spending 40 days and 40 nights in the wilderness living among the wild beasts?

I do not understand. What is the connection? And how does it correlate with Jesus' 18 lost years?

 

[longknife]

57 references and 3 books and not a single proof of anything.

Let's get down to earth about this.

Jesus lived in a time where youths learned the trade their father plied. By 14 or 15, they were married in arrangements made by their families and by 20 had children. What would be unusual about him traveling far from home? Everything! It just wasn't done back then. However, there are references to him spending time in the "wilderness" so there might be some validity to that.

There are a lot of things about the times and life of Jesus that we are unaware of. And, most of what we now have did not come into existence until a century after his death. How much is truth? Conjecture? Or hype?

But Jesus was unlike the rest of children. He was special. He was reciting Biblical passages and scriptural verses at a very young age. His father could see he had a much greater purpose than to marry and be saddled with children.

Proof? Link? Reference?

 

[pacer]

...and do I really have to cite the verses that show that Jesus was basically homeless, living on the streets, going from town to town and staying with friends and strangers?

I would appreciate it.

I posted this in another thread. What would be the likelihood the parables spoken by Jesus would be so similar to those spoken supposedly hundreds of years earlier by Buddha? Certainly it would appear Jesus came in contact with Buddhism.

"Setting aside the historical evidence, the textual evidence is convincing by itself alone. Most of what Jesus said, which, if even confined to the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, was said five hundred years earlier by Buddha. Much of what Jesus did was done five hundred years earlier by Buddha. So, schooled as a Buddhist, Jesus spoke and acted like a Buddhist.

JESUS: "A foolish man, which built his house on sand."
BUDDHA: "Perishable is a city built on sand." (30)
JESUS: "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed."
BUDDHA: "Confess before the world the sins you have committed." (31)
JESUS: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins."
BUDDHA: "Let all sins that were committed in this world fall on me, that the world may be delivered." (32)
JESUS: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
BUDDHA: "Consider others as yourself." (33)
JESUS: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
BUDDHA: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon all desires and utter no evil words." (34)
JESUS: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
BUDDHA: "Hatreds do not cease in this world by hating, but by love: this is an eternal truth. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good." (35)
JESUS: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
BUDDHA: "Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (36)
JESUS: "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her."
BUDDHA: "Do not look at the faults of others or what others have done or not done; observe what you yourself have done and have not done." (37)
JESUS: "You father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous."
BUDDHA: "The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low." (38)
JESUS: "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BUDDHA: "The avaricious do not go to heaven, the foolish do not extol charity. The wise one, however, rejoicing in charity, becomes thereby happy in the beyond." (39)"

 

[hobelim]

...and do I really have to cite the verses that show that Jesus was basically homeless, living on the streets, going from town to town and staying with friends and strangers?

I would appreciate it.

I posted this in another thread. What would be the likelihood the parables spoken by Jesus would be so similar to those spoken supposedly hundreds of years earlier by Buddha? Certainly it would appear Jesus came in contact with Buddhism.

"Setting aside the historical evidence, the textual evidence is convincing by itself alone. Most of what Jesus said, which, if even confined to the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, was said five hundred years earlier by Buddha. Much of what Jesus did was done five hundred years earlier by Buddha. So, schooled as a Buddhist, Jesus spoke and acted like a Buddhist.

JESUS: "A foolish man, which built his house on sand."
BUDDHA: "Perishable is a city built on sand." (30)
JESUS: "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed."
BUDDHA: "Confess before the world the sins you have committed." (31)
JESUS: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins."
BUDDHA: "Let all sins that were committed in this world fall on me, that the world may be delivered." (32)
JESUS: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
BUDDHA: "Consider others as yourself." (33)
JESUS: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
BUDDHA: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon all desires and utter no evil words." (34)
JESUS: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
BUDDHA: "Hatreds do not cease in this world by hating, but by love: this is an eternal truth. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good." (35)
JESUS: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
BUDDHA: "Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (36)
JESUS: "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her."
BUDDHA: "Do not look at the faults of others or what others have done or not done; observe what you yourself have done and have not done." (37)
JESUS: "You father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous."
BUDDHA: "The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low." (38)
JESUS: "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BUDDHA: "The avaricious do not go to heaven, the foolish do not extol charity. The wise one, however, rejoicing in charity, becomes thereby happy in the beyond." (39)"

you forgot, If anyone wishes to be a follower of mine, he must leave self behind. — Matthew 16:24


Yet some things that are exclusively Jewish were his teachings about the nature of God, conforming to the divine commands and seeking a fulfilled and fruitful life (not nothingness) which are definitely not Buddhist teachings.


There is no such thing in Buddhism as a loving creator intimately involved in the moral, ethical, and intellectual evolution of the human species from the individual to the whole.

How can you ignore the many references to the bad company that Jesus kept and the many 'parties' he attended with tax gatherers, sinners and prostitutes?

As far as what is most likely what he was doing during those years would have been raising a family in poverty among uncultured people who he felt completely comfortable with and accepting of.

He was old enough to have been a grandfather before he ever spoke a public word.

 

[Alfalfa]

...and do I really have to cite the verses that show that Jesus was basically homeless, living on the streets, going from town to town and staying with friends and strangers?

I would appreciate it.

I posted this in another thread. What would be the likelihood the parables spoken by Jesus would be so similar to those spoken supposedly hundreds of years earlier by Buddha? Certainly it would appear Jesus came in contact with Buddhism.

"Setting aside the historical evidence, the textual evidence is convincing by itself alone. Most of what Jesus said, which, if even confined to the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, was said five hundred years earlier by Buddha. Much of what Jesus did was done five hundred years earlier by Buddha. So, schooled as a Buddhist, Jesus spoke and acted like a Buddhist.

JESUS: "A foolish man, which built his house on sand."
BUDDHA: "Perishable is a city built on sand." (30)
JESUS: "Therefore confess your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that you may be healed."
BUDDHA: "Confess before the world the sins you have committed." (31)
JESUS: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the foregiveness of sins."
BUDDHA: "Let all sins that were committed in this world fall on me, that the world may be delivered." (32)
JESUS: "Do to others as you would have them do to you."
BUDDHA: "Consider others as yourself." (33)
JESUS: "If anyone strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also."
BUDDHA: "If anyone should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a knife, you should abandon all desires and utter no evil words." (34)
JESUS: "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
BUDDHA: "Hatreds do not cease in this world by hating, but by love: this is an eternal truth. Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good." (35)
JESUS: "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."
BUDDHA: "Let your thoughts of boundless love pervade the whole world." (36)
JESUS: "Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to cast a stone at her."
BUDDHA: "Do not look at the faults of others or what others have done or not done; observe what you yourself have done and have not done." (37)
JESUS: "You father in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous."
BUDDHA: "The light of the sun and the moon illuminates the whole world, both him who does well and him who does ill, both him who stands high and him who stands low." (38)
JESUS: "If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."
BUDDHA: "The avaricious do not go to heaven, the foolish do not extol charity. The wise one, however, rejoicing in charity, becomes thereby happy in the beyond." (39)"

All this might indicate is that the people who wrote the gospels were influenced by Bhuddism.

The earliest gospel is believed to have been written 100 years after Jebus's death. In fact it is also believed 3 of the gospels appear to have been based on the same sources...but nobody knows what that source is or was. it's quite possible all are based on oral traditions, and the accuracy of oral traditions is always suspect.

 

[pacer]

All this might indicate is that the people who wrote the gospels were influenced by Bhuddism.

Precisely...the New Testament did not exist at the time so Jesus could not have drawn from Scripture. When he returned from his 18 year hiatus, he was speaking in parables a Buddhist practice. I believe the accounts claiming Jesus traveled to India and came in contact with Buddhism and was trained as a Buddhist. Some sources claim he went under the name Isa which is Arabic for Jesus and there is evidence of a man called Issa having been a student of Buddhism in India, correlating to the same period which Jesus could not be accounted for in the Bible.

 

[longknife]

I'm not going to cite any references because I don't have any.

It is highly possible and most likely that Mary Magdalena was Jesus' WIFE who gave him children. It is also clear that one of his disciples, Andrew, was his brother.

Anything else would not have been acceptable in his lifetime. He was never cited as being a hermit. After seeking baptism by John, it is most true that he and his disciples moved from town to town as he was spreading his word. This is also most believable.

Now, one of the reasons that I am not associated with any organized religion is because I believe they have obscured or even ignored history because of their own agendas. They ignore his being married so as to make acceptable celibacy of their priests.

I have not studied Orthodox Christianity but wonder who much more information it has on Jesus' early life that we do not know.

 

[koshergrl]

Making stuff up based on what your own imagination and your un-referenced assertion of what was likely 2000 years ago does not create a valid theory. Sorry.

 

[pacer]

I do not believe Jesus married. The unaccounted 18 lost years was before he was baptized not after.

 

[Connery]

Thread cleaned of violative posts

The Administration and the Moderation Team are serious in their efforts to have a civil discourse as it pertains to the OP and any further posts which violate Zone 2 rules will be viewed in a more serious manner where infractions will be administered on a case by case basis.

 

[hobelim]

Making stuff up based on what your own imagination and your un-referenced assertion of what was likely 2000 years ago does not create a valid theory. Sorry.

how likely is it that 2000 years ago Jesus floated up into the sky literally?

How likely is it that 2000 years ago it was kosher to worship a trinity?

 

[Gracie]

I think Jesus was married to Mary....or fixing to be married to her before he was murdered. However, that was after he showed up much later. His younger years? It was left out of the "bible" because whomever the powers that be that chose what passages, which writers were to be included in the "bible" didn't want those details in there.

It's like reading a book with key elements changed, left out, pages removed, etc. So the gist is....believe what they want you to believe, not what actually went down.

Take Gandalf out of LOTR and what do you have? Or Aragorn.
The bible is missing MANY gospels...and the ones about Jesus as a child growing into a teen is amongst what is missing. Hence...taking what is said in the Bible with a HUGE chunk of salt.

 

[koshergrl]

Making stuff up based on what your own imagination and your un-referenced assertion of what was likely 2000 years ago does not create a valid theory. Sorry.

how likely is it that 2000 years ago Jesus floated up into the sky literally?

How likely is it that 2000 years ago it was kosher to worship a trinity?

The point is, there is documentation of those events. There is ZERO of the other. Try to avoid logical fallacy if you're going to participate, mmkay?

 

[koshergrl]

I think Jesus was married to Mary....or fixing to be married to her before he was murdered. However, that was after he showed up much later. His younger years? It was left out of the "bible" because whomever the powers that be that chose what passages, which writers were to be included in the "bible" didn't want those details in there.

It's like reading a book with key elements changed, left out, pages removed, etc. So the gist is....believe what they want you to believe, not what actually went down.

Take Gandalf out of LOTR and what do you have? Or Aragorn.
The bible is missing MANY gospels...and the ones about Jesus as a child growing into a teen is amongst what is missing. Hence...taking what is said in the Bible with a HUGE chunk of salt.

Sadly, there is absolutely nothing to support this *theory*. So it's no more likely than it is no more likely than any other fantasy you develop. If Jesus was married to Mary (which one?) then someone would have mentioned it. They didn't, because he wasn't. Mary was not his wife, she was most likely a wealthy sponsor.

 

[Samson]

Making stuff up based on what your own imagination and your un-referenced assertion of what was likely 2000 years ago does not create a valid theory. Sorry.

how likely is it that 2000 years ago Jesus floated up into the sky literally?

How likely is it that 2000 years ago it was kosher to worship a trinity?

The point is, there is documentation of those events. There is ZERO of the other. Try to avoid logical fallacy if you're going to participate, mmkay?

"Documentation?"

2000 years ago?




Pics?

 

[longknife]

Making stuff up based on what your own imagination and your un-referenced assertion of what was likely 2000 years ago does not create a valid theory. Sorry.

how likely is it that 2000 years ago Jesus floated up into the sky literally?

How likely is it that 2000 years ago it was kosher to worship a trinity?

The point is, there is documentation of those events. There is ZERO of the other. Try to avoid logical fallacy if you're going to participate, mmkay?

There are thousands upon thousands of documents in the Vatican vaults which have never been made public! I wonder why that is.

Check out https://www.google.com/#q=biblical+book+of+mary+magdalene and explain to me why its been kept in the Roman churches vaults.

And this from Wiki:

The Vatican Secret Archives have been estimated to contain 52 miles (84 km) of shelving,[4] and there are 35,000 volumes in the selective catalogue alone. "Indexes must be consulted in the Index Room and replaced in their original location. Publication of the indexes, in part or as a whole, is forbidden."[5] The Archives support their own photographic and conservation studios.

According to the website of the Archives, the oldest surviving document dates back to the end of the eighth century. "Transfers and political upheavals nearly caused the total loss of all the archival material preceding Innocent III."[6] From 1198 onwards, more complete archives exist, though documentation is scant before the 13th century. Since that time, the documentation includes items such as Henry VIII of England's request for a marriage annulment,[7] and letters from Michelangelo.

 

[koshergrl]

You know this..how?

 

[hobelim]

I think Jesus was married to Mary....or fixing to be married to her before he was murdered. However, that was after he showed up much later. His younger years? It was left out of the "bible" because whomever the powers that be that chose what passages, which writers were to be included in the "bible" didn't want those details in there.

It's like reading a book with key elements changed, left out, pages removed, etc. So the gist is....believe what they want you to believe, not what actually went down.

Take Gandalf out of LOTR and what do you have? Or Aragorn.
The bible is missing MANY gospels...and the ones about Jesus as a child growing into a teen is amongst what is missing. Hence...taking what is said in the Bible with a HUGE chunk of salt.

Sadly, there is absolutely nothing to support this *theory*. So it's no more likely than it is no more likely than any other fantasy you develop. If Jesus was married to Mary (which one?) then someone would have mentioned it. They didn't, because he wasn't. Mary was not his wife, she was most likely a wealthy sponsor.

Making stuff up based on what your own imagination and your un-referenced assertion of what was likely 2000 years ago does not create a valid theory. Sorry.

how likely is it that 2000 years ago Jesus floated up into the sky literally?

How likely is it that 2000 years ago it was kosher to worship a trinity?

The point is, there is documentation of those events. There is ZERO of the other. Try to avoid logical fallacy if you're going to participate, mmkay?

LOL, sure, there is documentation of events that have always been and will always be impossible to occur in reality leaving the allegorical implications the only possible truth.



And that Jesus was most likely married in an arranged marriage by the age of 14 whether he liked it or not is a well know and historically documented practice of the times when Jesus lived. If he was never married by 30 such an oddity would have been pointed out as evidence of a mental defect by the people trying to disprove his claims of being the Jewish messiah who was expected to obey all of the divine commands including a literal fulfillment of the command to be fruitful and multiply..

 

[koshergrl]

You guys realize you're dealing from a position of fantasy and ignorance, right? There is documentation of the existence of Christ, we do know that he existed...we have lots and lots of documentation about the events that surrounded his life. Whereas you have..imagination.

 

[koshergrl]

I think Jesus was married to Mary....or fixing to be married to her before he was murdered. However, that was after he showed up much later. His younger years? It was left out of the "bible" because whomever the powers that be that chose what passages, which writers were to be included in the "bible" didn't want those details in there.

It's like reading a book with key elements changed, left out, pages removed, etc. So the gist is....believe what they want you to believe, not what actually went down.

Take Gandalf out of LOTR and what do you have? Or Aragorn.
The bible is missing MANY gospels...and the ones about Jesus as a child growing into a teen is amongst what is missing. Hence...taking what is said in the Bible with a HUGE chunk of salt.

Sadly, there is absolutely nothing to support this *theory*. So it's no more likely than it is no more likely than any other fantasy you develop. If Jesus was married to Mary (which one?) then someone would have mentioned it. They didn't, because he wasn't. Mary was not his wife, she was most likely a wealthy sponsor.

how likely is it that 2000 years ago Jesus floated up into the sky literally?

How likely is it that 2000 years ago it was kosher to worship a trinity?

The point is, there is documentation of those events. There is ZERO of the other. Try to avoid logical fallacy if you're going to participate, mmkay?

LOL, sure, there is documentation of events that have always been and will always be impossible to occur in reality leaving the allegorical implications the only possible truth.



And that Jesus was most likely married in an arranged marriage by the age of 14 whether he liked it or not is a well know and historically documented practice of the times when Jesus lived. If he was never married by 30 such an oddity would have been pointed out as evidence of a mental defect by the people trying to disprove his claims of being the Jewish messiah who was expected to obey all of the divine commands including a literal fulfillment of the command to be fruitful and multiply..

All you're doing is proving your ignorance. No, they would not have held him up as an object of ridicule for failing to marry. You have an odd and skewed, and ignorant, concept of what life was like during the days of Christ. There were many 30 year old men who were not married, and they were not considered mentally defective. Men then, as now, waited upon their fortune to marry, and men then, as now, devoted themselves fully to devotion of God and were not considered mentally defective for doing so.