Dems, don't let Repubs bamboozle you, America IS a democracy.

[d0gbreath]

Useful idiots have been fed the lie that we are a democracy because we use the democratic process to elect representatives to our republic. Such simple children they are. Bunghole is a prime example.

We are a democratic republic. It was just too many syllables to fit in the pledge.

 

[Rumpole]

Constitutional Republic dumbass.

Otherwise we wouldn't have an electoral college.

And I didn't need to read any of that gobbledygook you wrote to know the correct answer.

constitutional republic and democracy are not mutually exclusive terms, you fucking idiot.

An 'electoral college' is not required in any republic.
There are 39 constitutional republics in the world. These include countries like the United States, Australia, Canada, Japan, and many others.

As for the ‘electoral college’ system, it is used by at least 10 countries

And for all the morons like Remodeling Maidiac, it says so right on the Government's website:


https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/lesson-plans/Government_and_You_handouts.pdf

Democracy in the United States.

The United States is a representative democracy. This means that our government is elected by citizens. Here, citizens vote for their government officials. These officials represent the citizens’ ideas and concerns in government. Voting is one way to participate in our democracy. Citizens can also contact their officials when they want to support or change a law. Voting in an election and contacting our elected officials are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy.

In my entire 72 years, from elementary through college, all the books, all my teachers and professors, spoke of America as a democracy. Democracy is a broad, almost poetic, descriptive term. The ONLY time I ever heard anyone ever claiming that America is not a democracy is be asinine dumbass maga republicans and right about the time they haven't won the popular vote in decades.

Moreover

Democracy - Representation, Equality, Participation

Democracy - Representation, Equality, Participation: Is democracy the most appropriate name for a large-scale representative system such as that of the early United States? At the end of the 18th century, the history of the terms whose literal meaning is “rule by the people”—democracy and...

www.britannica.com

When the members of the United States Constitutional Convention met in 1787, terminology was still unsettled. Not only were democracy and republic used more or less interchangeably in the colonies..
[...]
Even among his contemporaries, Madison’s refusal to apply the term democracy to representative governments, even those based on broad electorates, was aberrant.

 

[Rumpole]

Way tl;dr

But this debate is primarily equivocation. Just a bunch of arm-wrestling over definitions. The real question is how much power should be delegated to majority rule? The founders of the nation designed things such that their answer was clear: "Not much".

Democracy is majority rule, period. It might be qualified, regulated, etc., but it's majority rule in some form or another. The founders feared the historical excesses of democracy, so they tempered it with a bicameral legislature, three co equal branches of government, and an electoral college and giving more strength to smaller states (by assigning two senators to each state, regardless of size). But they NEVER advocated for minority rule.

 

[Lastamender]

{Caveat: those who are weaned on soundbites, one liners and snarky quips, who have subsequent short attention spans, ignore this post]

This trope has been floundering around the conservative/libertarian circles on the right for some time now, and now Trump
has joined the *RNAD regurgitators.

*Republic, Not A Democracy.

Some Republicans claim that 'proof' is in the pledge: "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands..."

Uh, no...I'm sorry to inform you on the right, especially republicans, but "Republic", "Constitutional Republic", "Democracy", "Liberal Democracy", "Western Democracy", etc., these are NOT mutually exclusive terms. I know you think they are, but no, they aren't. They are general terms for basically the same principle, that a Democracy, using the broadest sense of the term, which is the most common use of the term, means a nation of liberty, where free speech, freedom of assembly, everyone of age has the vote, and other assorted virtues, prevail, as opposed to a monarchy or dictatorship or totalitarian non democratic nations.


To wit:

...[a] fundamental maxim of republican government...requires that the sense of the majority should prevail. --Alexander Hamilton, Federalist #22

When Madison/Hamilton (i.e., "Publius") was making a distinction between 'Democracy' and 'Republic', favoring a Republic, he wasn't dissing 'Democracy' in the general sense, he/they were using the term in parochial sense, he was making a distinction between a government where laws are voted on by the electorate, a direct democracy, and one that has laws enacted by a Republic consisting of representative body, each of whose members are elected by popular vote. In America, this is the House of Representatives, Congress, and The Senate, i.e., our bicameral legislature which includes the Vice President when a tie vote needs to be broken. They weren't using the term as it has been used in academia, journalism and public spheres as it has ben used for a very long time.
Now, just in case some of you on the right assert that my Fed #22 quote is out of context, but no, because the meat of the statement stands alone and the context it was written in doesn't really change that fact, so context wasn't necessary.

And what was that context? Hamilton was actually arguing that the principle of equal suffrage between states of different sizes (of populations) contradicts the principle that it is a maxim of a republican form of government that the majority should prevail. Because he was arguing in favor of that principle, the principle, as a principle, it therefore stands alone --not to mention that he states that contrary arguments are 'sophistry'. Clearly, Hamilton favors that the majority should prevail in elections. This IS democracy.

Note that, as any encyclopedia will define, the term 'Republic', is a broad term, and is merely any government that is not a monarchy, where the leaders are either voted in OR appointed. also note that all elections, yes, the many thousands of them from local municipalities on up, excluding only the Vice Pres. and President, are voted via direct democracy. Thus only the VP and the Prez are voted via the EC. (Of course, laws are enacted via the legislature and the Prez but we do have laws, known as 'ballot initiatives' enacted by direct vote in many states). So, we can rightfully state that the vast majority of elections in the United States are done via direct democracy.

There are all types of Republics; there are Constitutional Republics (AKA Democratic Republics aligned with a Constitution) , Islamic Republics, There are Socialist Republics, Calvinist Republics, and so on. But, listening to any Republican, (of late) they will assert that a 'Republic" and a "Democracy' are not the same thing. Let's be clear on this point, A Republic may not include a democracy but a democracy is just about always a Republic, and so, most of the time, these days, when we say 'Republic' we are thinking of a democracy of a certain type, which is defined by whatever charter the Republic is aligned with and usually that is a representative democracy of some kind.

America is a Constitutional [Federal] Republic, AKA "Representative Democracy: AKA "Liberal Democracy" AKA "Western Democracy", noting that Representative Democracy refers to the House of Representatives, and not so much the Electoral College. If we didn't have an EC, America would still be a representative democracy. A number of western democracies, or rather, most of them, elect their president by direct, majority vote, yet are still known as 'representative democracies' precisely because of the fact that they have, like that of the US, an elected body of representatives who propose legislation on behalf of constituents. Now, if anyone is going to claim otherwise, no, I don't buy it, because I've learned this since middle school, read it everywhere I've ever read about politics, heard it spoken on the tongues of pundits, academicians, and leaders of every type since I was a teenager interested in the subject --- we were taught, without exception, "America is a Democracy", and "Democracy is core value in America".

I mean, this stupid RNAD thing, well, it's getting out of hand, and I can clearly see what is driving it: IN FACT, this idea that 'America is not a Democracy' became popular with Republicans right about the time they started losing the popular vote. Gee, what a coincidence, it seems they need to dis democracy in order to feel about about their winning the presidency via a particular fluke in the electoral college system. And don't tell me that not winning the popular vote doesn't bother Republicans. I know it really annoys Trump which is why he lied when he said that he would have won the popular vote had not 3 million illegals voted (in the 2016 election, which was a lie). No, y'all would definitely prefer to win the popular vote. Don't tell me otherwise, I just don't believe you.

It's really gotten a lot of traction now, the RNAD myth, given that in the last few decades Republicans are not winning the popular vote, so now they're trying to poo poo democracy, and doing a lot to diminish it, as a matter of fact, and this trope allows them to feel good about doing it. Republics don't like democracy given that of late, it appears that Democracy doesn't like Republicans. Well, they are bringing it on themselves.

Well, I got bad news for Republicans, either you have a democracy or Fascism. It's one or the other and you really need to decide which side you are on. You can move towards one, and when you do, you are moving away from the other, and that, in my view, describes Trumpism, a move away from democracy towards fascism. The Lincoln Repubs recognize this and have rejected Trumpism hence the "Lincoln Project".

America is all about elections. We have local elections in every municipality in America, thousands of them. We have elections in every state for various state level positions form Governor on down. And then we have elections for the House and the Senate, and finally, The President and Vice president via the electoral college. All sorts of elections, so don't tell me, those of you on the right, and Republicans, that America is "not" a democracy because the BS meter is redlining......

View attachment 772373

Any country that has as many elections as America has is a democracy. No, that it's a 'representative democracy' doesn't alter the statement. Remember, the term 'Democracy' has both broad and parochial usages.

The Trumpist claim that we're 'a republic, not a democracy' is even more dangerous than it sounds

Trumpist Republicans are lately in the habit of repeating this doozy of a notion that the United States of America is “a republic, not a democracy” (RNAD). Often, this comes as a response to ...

www.dailykos.com

Trumpist Republicans are lately in the habit of repeating this doozy of a notion that the United States of America is “a republic, not a democracy” (RNAD). Often, this comes as a response to statements like, “Trumpism is a threat to democracy!” While your first reaction might have been, “Huh?” or, “Are these stone-cold nincompoops out of their ever-loving minds?” the refrain remains a consistent rebuttal from the extreme right.

Responding to RNAD requires understanding what right-wing extremists mean when they say “a republic, not a democracy.” It means they don’t care about democracy. This line of argument provides an ideological justification for some of the most extreme actions being taken by members of the MAGAsphere—actions aimed at thwarting American democracy itself.

BINGO!

A democracy is often a term referring to....

1. A nation where citizens enjoy rights.
2. A nation where citizens enjoy certain freedoms, of speech, free assembly, freedom to work, be self-employed, to achieve one's aims, etc.
3. Freedom of religion, or freedom from religion
4. The right to vote once one is 18.
5. A nation with a government of elected leaders, either directly or indirectly.
6. A Republic, Federal, Constitutional, or otherwise, which is, essentially, a government of elected leaders, indirectly or directly, whose legislation is enacted by the elected representatives constituting a 'representative democracy' generally under the governance of a constitution.

Definition of republic

1a(1): a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government
b(1): a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law
(2): a political unit (such as a nation) having such a form of government

View attachment 772394

AKA 'representative democracy' AKA 'liberal democracies' AKA 'western democracies' AKA or just 'democracy'.

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument

Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.

www.theatlantic.com

‘America Is a Republic, Not a Democracy’ Is a Dangerous—And Wrong—Argument
Enabling sustained minority rule at the national level is not a feature of our constitutional design, but a perversion of it.


And it so states right on the Government's own website:

https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/lesson-plans/Government_and_You_handouts.pdf

Democracy in the United States.

The United States is a representative democracy. This means that our government is elected by citizens. Here, citizens vote for their government officials. These officials represent the citizens’ ideas and concerns in government. Voting is one way to participate in our democracy. Citizens can also contact their officials when they want to support or change a law. Voting in an election and contacting our elected officials are two ways that Americans can participate in their democracy.

Democrats, do not let Republicans bamboozle anyone on this point, America IS a democracy. Yes, there are times when it might be in doubt, but in principle, though our democracy is far from perfect, so with all of it's flaws, America is a Democracy.

Just what we need a limey turd telling us about America.

 

[Rumpole]

Just what we need a limey turd telling us about America.

I was born in Texas, you dumb shit.

 

[Lastamender]

I was born in Texas, you dumb shit.

My mistake. But you still are a turd.

 

[Rumpole]

My mistake. But you still are a turd.

No, you clearly wouldn't know a turd if it bit you on the gluteus maximus.

Trump lays turds daily and you swallow them heartily.

Right?

 

[Flash]

Don't let these Democrat assholes get away with lying.

The US was once a Constitutional Republic.

Thanks to the Democrat filth it is now a Banana Republic.

 

[Lastamender]

No, you clearly wouldn't know a turd if it bit you on the gluteus maximus.

Trump lays turds daily and you swallow them heartily.

Right?

Our government and the alphabet agencies are the liars. They have been caught lying multiple times and continue to do the same.

 

[dblack]

Democracy is majority rule, period. It might be qualified, regulated, etc., but it's majority rule in some form or another. The founders feared the historical excesses of democracy, so they tempered it with a bicameral legislature, three co equal branches of government, and an electoral college and giving more strength to smaller states (by assigning two senators to each state, regardless of size). But they NEVER advocated for minority rule.

WTF is "minority rule"? Can you cite an example?

 

[Orangecat]

We are a democratic republic. It was just too many syllables to fit in the pledge.

We are not a democracy. We use the democratic process to elect representatives to our republic.

 

[d0gbreath]

We are not a democracy. We use the democratic process to elect representatives to our republic.

Which is the definition of a democratic republic.

 

[BackAgain]

Thankfully, the verbose buffoon’s OP is simply and flatly wrong.

The United States of America is absolutely not a “democracy.” We are a Constitutional republic.

If you wish to note that we incorporate (with safeguards) and make limited use of “democracy,” then you make a valid claim. But to falsely claim that we are a “democracy” after the Founders and Framers took such careful pains to avoid any such thing is so ridiculous that only a bubbling and determinedly dishonest libtard would bother to say it.

DumpHole is that bubbling libtard.

 

[westwall]

Which is the definition of a democratic republic.

Your problem is we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

That means no matter what the majority votes for, if it is counter to the COTUS, IT DOESN'T!

It isn't law because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Do you understand?

 

[d0gbreath]

Your problem is we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

That means no matter what the majority votes for, if it is counter to the COTUS, IT DOESN'T!

It isn't law because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Do you understand?

I understand that you are yelling at me, in the mistaken identity of actually being somebody.

You are not, Go away!

 

[Orangecat]

Which is the definition of a democratic republic.

Which is not the definition of a Democracy.

 

[d0gbreath]

Which is not the definition of a Democracy.

True. Those are two very different things. You can't have electoral college wins, with popular vote losses, selecting the office holder in a democracy.

 

[g5000]

Orangecat Remodeling Maidiac badbob85037 scruffy

Numbnuts show me the word democracy in the constitution. I can show you the word Republican

Transcript of Trump’s speech at rally before US Capitol riot​

We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: To save our democracy.



Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you, we’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down.



Today, for the sake of our democracy, for the sake of our Constitution, and for the sake of our children, we lay out the case for the entire world to hear. You want to hear it?



They also want to indoctrinate your children in school by teaching them things that aren’t so. They want to indoctrinate your children. It’s all part of the comprehensive assault on our democracy, and the American people are finally standing up and saying no. This crowd is, again, a testament to it.

​

 

[g5000]

When did some Americans become so retarded that they don't even know we live in a democracy!?!?

 

[BackAgain]

Your problem is we are a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

That means no matter what the majority votes for, if it is counter to the COTUS, IT DOESN'T!

It isn't law because it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Do you understand?

He does not understand.