Countries The U.S. "Regime Changed" - Iraq/Afghanistan/Libya/Syria Are Chaotic Messes

[BillyP]

Stop passing the buck. Your guy's in charge. He's the President. And he has demanded more Taxpayer Dollars to fund & arm Syrian Rebels. That's just fact. Passing the buck just ain't gonna cut it anymore.

So what if Obama is funding the rebels, what's the problem?

You not seeing the problems, sadly says it all.

So you don't know? Just say so.

 

[bendog]

Well, Russia is funding a faction in the Ukraine as well. And there's some anti-democratic activity there as well, e.g. trying to get Russian rather than Nato ties in place by an unpopular govt shortly before an election.

The Paulites phrase the issue as isolationism, which historically has proven to not only not work but actually lead us into wars that perhaps were avoidable, or at least could have been nipped in the bud early on and saved much cost and human misery.

I think the ME is more or less different from other regions. Everytime we've done regieme change, it's backfired, and that goes back to Eisenhower in Iran through Bushii in Iraq, and probably even Truman in establishing the state of Israel, which may the nexus of much of the problem today. Of course, we don't do regieme change elsewhere, at least with munitions.

Engaging the Saudis economically and ending oil embargos worked very well for us. We had with BushI and Clinton defanged Saddam. Even Gaddafi was more or less compliant at the end.

BushII's aids campaign in Africa, and the West's shunning of apartheid haven't exactly been failures.

I think Hillary was pretty much on point when she recently tried to distinguish positive and negative outcomes by focusing on how we do pretty good when we unilaterally, or bilaterally, act on our ideas of human liberty to offer some benefit, rather than telling people what govts they have to have.

 

[bendog]

it's all Obama, really.

U.S. Moving Closer To Arming Syria Rebels, U.S. Senator Bob Corker Says

Stop passing the buck. Your guy's in charge. He's the President. And he has demanded more Taxpayer Dollars to fund & arm Syrian Rebels. That's just fact. Passing the buck just ain't gonna cut it anymore.

nobody's passing the buck but you for not actually addressing who all the players are.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

Clearly, you're ill-informed. ISIS was assisted by your Dear Leader's funding & arming. -Originally Posted by paulitician.

Do you have evidence or reports that the US and the CIA funded, trained and armed any ISIS terrorists in Syria? Please provide what you think you have?

Funding and arming Rebels in Syria is a monumental interventionist blunder. The Taxpayer Money and weapons have gotten to some very evil cretins there. And ISIS is one of those evil cretins. Obama had no business involving us in their Civil War. It's proving to be an ugly nightmarish decision.

Do you have anything that supports your contention that ISIS fighters were armed and financed by the US?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

And he has demanded more Taxpayer Dollars to fund & arm Syrian Rebels. That's just fact.

The fact is Obama three months ago asked Congress for funds to train and assist vetted rebels to fight ISIS and Assad. Your opposition to this funding would benefit ISIS if anyone in Congress paid attentention to your nonsense.

 

[tinydancer]

Clearly, you're ill-informed. ISIS was assisted by your Dear Leader's funding & arming. He just had to get his Assad Boogeyman. Just like Bush had to get his Hussein Boogeyman.

If you read the following budget request from Obama to the US Congress for FY2015 you'd realize that reality is coming down hard on you just as those thousands of US Hellfire missiles are coming down hard on IS terrorists in Iraq.

But I don't see much concern about facts and reality in your cobbled together position:

http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/defau...ents/final_fy_2015_oco_amendment_-_062414.pdf

The first request to arm 'moderate rebels' came in June of this year:

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels

It comes to assist moderate rebels fight both Assad and IS terrorists. Your rendition of what's going is loony.

The administration has said repeatedly in recent weeks that it was preparing additional assistance to vetted “moderate” opposition forces fighting both the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and extremists of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), who have now spread their area of control across the Syrian border into Iraq.

If Congress approves the funding, it would mark the first direct U.S. military participation in the Syrian conflict

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

 

[tinydancer]

And he has demanded more Taxpayer Dollars to fund & arm Syrian Rebels. That's just fact.

The fact is Obama three months ago asked Congress for funds to train and assist vetted rebels to fight ISIS and Assad. Your opposition to this funding would benefit ISIS if anyone in Congress paid attentention to your nonsense.

Too little to late to fight ISIS. He turned a blind eye to all the gains ISIS had made in Syria because all he cared about was deposing Assad.

After the US released Baghdadi in 2009 that man turned ISIS into the most powerful terror army in the world.

They control key nterests in Syria and now with their invasion of Iraq, they control key areas there as well.

The Iraq government had been begging for a year before ISIS invaded to take over Mosul and other areas in Iraq for Obama to use air strikes to demolish the terror army.

But no. Obama kept refusing. So this is a all a big fucking dog and pony show Obama is putting on now.

Just bullshit from the Home of the Whopper aka the White House.

 

[bendog]

Clearly, you're ill-informed. ISIS was assisted by your Dear Leader's funding & arming. He just had to get his Assad Boogeyman. Just like Bush had to get his Hussein Boogeyman.

If you read the following budget request from Obama to the US Congress for FY2015 you'd realize that reality is coming down hard on you just as those thousands of US Hellfire missiles are coming down hard on IS terrorists in Iraq.

But I don't see much concern about facts and reality in your cobbled together position:

http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/defau...ents/final_fy_2015_oco_amendment_-_062414.pdf

The first request to arm 'moderate rebels' came in June of this year:

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels

It comes to assist moderate rebels fight both Assad and IS terrorists. Your rendition of what's going is loony.

If Congress approves the funding, it would mark the first direct U.S. military participation in the Syrian conflict

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

I think they were, or at least John McCain said there were, but I suspect they were killed months ago.

 

[tinydancer]

If you read the following budget request from Obama to the US Congress for FY2015 you'd realize that reality is coming down hard on you just as those thousands of US Hellfire missiles are coming down hard on IS terrorists in Iraq.

But I don't see much concern about facts and reality in your cobbled together position:

http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/defau...ents/final_fy_2015_oco_amendment_-_062414.pdf

The first request to arm 'moderate rebels' came in June of this year:

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels

It comes to assist moderate rebels fight both Assad and IS terrorists. Your rendition of what's going is loony.






Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

I think they were, or at least John McCain said there were, but I suspect they were killed months ago.

The very same John McCain who spent so much time reassuring all of us that the Muslim Brotherhood was a largely secular organization.

 

[Freewill]

You got it, Obama.

 

[tinydancer]

We orchestrated that military coup to remove an Islamist terrorist regime that was planning to kill the Christians in Egypt.

Nice convenient delusion, far from reality. Obama initially supported the Muslim Brotherhood. It's a real mess. And our Government played a big part in creating it.

]
Fucking Islamists were planning genocide on the Christians. US moved ASAP and helped planned that coup.

Now one more time. Back in from the garden and going into my stack of stuff I got this for you to completely blow your stupid assertions to hell that Obama and the US got rid of the Muslim Brotherhood.

33 million Egyptians overthrew Obama's Morsi and the Brotherhood. And they hate Obama and the US for imposing their bitch on them.

Egyptians enraged by U.S. outreach to Muslim Brotherhood

A top advisor to Egypt’s Interim President Adly Mansour formally accused McCain of distorting facts to the benefit of the Brotherhood, dismissing the senator’s remarks as “irrational”—or, more colloquially, “moronic.”

Ahmed al-Zind, head of the Egyptian Judge Club, called for the arrest and trial of McCain for “trying to destroy Egypt.”

The leader of the youth movement, Tamarod (or “Rebellion” against the Brotherhood) which played a major role in mobilizing the June 30 Revolution, said “We reject John McCain and call on the international community to let the [Egyptian] people decide their own fate.”

Another incensed secular political commentator, Ahmed Musa, asserted that “These two men have made more shameless demands than the Brotherhood themselves would dare,” adding:

He [McCain] is not a man elected by the American people to speak on their behalf; today, he speaks on behalf of an armed terrorist organization—the Muslim Brotherhood…

We had expected [better] from these two men who came to speak with the tongue of the Brotherhood’s leadership, and as if they had been recruited as two new leaders of the Brotherhood, which killed, destroyed, and burned in al-Muqattam, and now in Rab‘a al-Adawiya [the main Brotherhood camp].

The only thing missing is to see them [McCain and Graham] in Rab‘a, surrounded by armed groups, and in their midst Muhammad Badie [supreme leader of the Brotherhood] and [U.S. ambassador]Anne Patterson.

That’s all that’s missing! Here comes Brother McCain today saying that we must “release the [Brotherhood] prisoners”…. are you not aware that these people are accused of murder?

Are you not aware that hundreds of Egyptians have been killed at the hands of the Brotherhood, Morsi, Shatter, Qatatni, Badie, Baltagi—have you forgotten? Did you not read the report on what happened? Or did you just blindly accept your ambassador’s [Anne Patterson’s] words that it was a coup, that 33 million people did not go out?

More at link:

Egyptians enraged by U.S. outreach to Muslim Brotherhood

 

[whutTHEYsay]

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

How did you formulate such a reduculous unfounded opinion?

Why should anyone rely on your opinion when it is well known there are moderate rebels in Syria as this AFP reports tells us in the last line:

Fighting between members of the Shaitat Sunni tribe and jihadists began on Wednesday, with tribal members tweeting about an "uprising" against IS.

The clashes erupted after IS detained three members of the tribe, "violating an agreement", it said.

The Observatory said the Shaitat had promised IS it would not oppose it, in exchange for the jihadists not harassing or attacking its members.

On Thursday, IS members raided the villages, searching houses and kidnapping or "detaining" an unknown number of people, the Observatory said, adding that fighting was raging.

The Observatory said nine IS fighters had been killed in the clashes, and that the jihadist group was rallying forces from across the border in Iraq to send in as reinforcements.

IS has its roots in Al-Qaeda but has split from the group and has seized large swathes of territory in both Syria and Iraq.

It faces opposition from both moderate and Islamist rebels in Syria.

Islamic State withdraws from Syria villages

 

[Indofred]

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

There was, at least at first.
The seeds were planted by ordinary people, pissed off at seeing their family members being murdered.
As is common with revolutions, extreme forces saw a chance, and went for it.

As for funding rebels - stupidity.
These things ALWAYS go pear shaped, ask Osama.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

33 million Egyptians overthrew Obama's Morsi and the Brotherhood. And they hate Obama and the US for imposing their bitch on them.

How on earth could you reach the conclusion that Obama and the US imposed Morsi on the Egyptian people. The Egyptian people voted for Morsi. Do you think Obama rigged that election somehow?

The better winner for the US in that election Morsi's opponent.

And though Morsi won the presidency fair and square, the Egyptian public is sharply divided. Ahmed Shafiq, a retired officer who served as Mubarak's last appointed prime minister and who represented the military class's interests in the presidential race, received over 49 percent of the national vote. Some of those votes were out of a straightforward desire for the stability that largely prevailed under Mubarak's military-backed regime. But many were cast against an Islamist presidential candidate whose organization's stated goal is the imposition of the Islamic sharia on Egypt's people..

For Egypt's new president, getting elected was the easy part - CSMonitor.com

Why would the US and Obama prefer Morsi over Shafiq? But once Morsi was declared the winner Obama diplomatically was obliged as president to respect the people of Egypt's choice.

So how did Obama 'impose' Morsi on the people of Egypt? Do you ever think through the kind of stuff that you write?

 

[whutTHEYsay]

The Iraq government had been begging for a year before ISIS invaded to take over Mosul and other areas in Iraq for Obama to use air strikes to demolish the terror army.

But no. Obama kept refusing. So this is a all a big fucking dog and pony show Obama is putting on now.

I thought you agreed with the OP.

What's your source on the 'begging for a year' tale?

You do know that much of the world has been demand that Maliki form a political settlement with the Sunnis and he refused to oblige. If he'd begging the US for airstrikes why not do what was more critical at stopping the Sunni population from siding with IS.

Obama is right. Air strikes solve nothing on their own, if there is no attempt at political reconciliation and evidence the Iraqis will face the terrorists on the ground and stand and fight when the strikes they want are delivered.

The Iraqis are getting a boatload of Hellfire missiles. That's a better solution. Let the Iraqis buy them and fire them.

Let Iraqi's Kill those IS bastards and work some OT at Lockheed Martin here at home.

But where did you get that 'begging for a year' claim? Just curious.

 

[tinydancer]

The Iraq government had been begging for a year before ISIS invaded to take over Mosul and other areas in Iraq for Obama to use air strikes to demolish the terror army.

But no. Obama kept refusing. So this is a all a big fucking dog and pony show Obama is putting on now.

I thought you agreed with the OP.

What's your source on the 'begging for a year' tale?

You do know that much of the world has been demand that Maliki form a political settlement with the Sunnis and he refused to oblige. If he'd begging the US for airstrikes why not do what was more critical at stopping the Sunni population from siding with IS.

Obama is right. Air strikes solve nothing on their own, if there is no attempt at political reconciliation and evidence the Iraqis will face the terrorists on the ground and stand and fight when the strikes they want are delivered.

The Iraqis are getting a boatload of Hellfire missiles. That's a better solution. Let the Iraqis buy them and fire them.

Let Iraqi's Kill those IS bastards and work some OT at Lockheed Martin here at home.

But where did you get that 'begging for a year' claim? Just curious.

From Maliki. It's not rocket science as to the rise of ISIS. As long as one does not use US media sources the truth is out there.

I'm signing off for the night, but I will come back in tomorrow and be more than happy to share all my links.

I always back up everything I say. I prefer to use truly reliable sources such as the BBC, the CBC, France 24 and such.

I know that they lean left but at least they still practice the honorable art of journalism as compared to the American media.

Have a nice night.

 

[FlourPower]

Please don't feed the Fool.

 

[paulitician]

And he has demanded more Taxpayer Dollars to fund & arm Syrian Rebels. That's just fact.

The fact is Obama three months ago asked Congress for funds to train and assist vetted rebels to fight ISIS and Assad. Your opposition to this funding would benefit ISIS if anyone in Congress paid attentention to your nonsense.

"vetted rebels." Ha, that's a good one.

 

[paulitician]

Clearly, you're ill-informed. ISIS was assisted by your Dear Leader's funding & arming. He just had to get his Assad Boogeyman. Just like Bush had to get his Hussein Boogeyman.

If you read the following budget request from Obama to the US Congress for FY2015 you'd realize that reality is coming down hard on you just as those thousands of US Hellfire missiles are coming down hard on IS terrorists in Iraq.

But I don't see much concern about facts and reality in your cobbled together position:

http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/defau...ents/final_fy_2015_oco_amendment_-_062414.pdf

The first request to arm 'moderate rebels' came in June of this year:

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels

It comes to assist moderate rebels fight both Assad and IS terrorists. Your rendition of what's going is loony.

If Congress approves the funding, it would mark the first direct U.S. military participation in the Syrian conflict

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

Bingo! They're committing horrific atrocities daily in Syria. And they're not all ISIS. Our Government has funded several rebel factions there. But obviously the Western Media has conveniently ignored the rebel atrocities. Should have listened to Putin and Russia. Assad was the safer bet. Supporting the rebels there has released the hounds of horror.

 

[BillyP]

If you read the following budget request from Obama to the US Congress for FY2015 you'd realize that reality is coming down hard on you just as those thousands of US Hellfire missiles are coming down hard on IS terrorists in Iraq.

But I don't see much concern about facts and reality in your cobbled together position:

http://m.whitehouse.gov/sites/defau...ents/final_fy_2015_oco_amendment_-_062414.pdf

The first request to arm 'moderate rebels' came in June of this year:

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels

It comes to assist moderate rebels fight both Assad and IS terrorists. Your rendition of what's going is loony.

Obama asks for authorization to provide direct military training to Syrian rebels - The Washington Post

There was no such thing as a moderate rebel ever in Syria.

Bingo! They're committing horrific atrocities daily in Syria. And they're not all ISIS. Our Government has funded several rebel factions there. But obviously the Western Media has conveniently ignored the rebel atrocities. Should have listened to Putin and Russia. Assad was the safer bet. Supporting the rebels there has released the hounds of horror.

Arabs fighting Arabs = no westerner who isn't a carpet kissers gives a shit. In fact, Arabs killing Arabs is always a good thing. It's like when drug dealers kill each other, people secretly cheer on the inside.