Conservatism Has Always Been Wrong for Blacks

[Invisibleflash]

Here we see a debate with James Baldwin vs. William Buckley on the issue of race. Buckley was soundly defeated. Buckley's message is still the basic philosophy of conservatism.

James Baldwin Debates William F. Buckley (1965)

 

[IM2]

Here we see a debate with James Baldwin vs. William Buckley on the issue of race. Buckley was soundly defeated. Buckley's message is still the basic philosophy of conservatism.

James Baldwin Debates William F. Buckley (1965)

How is this a debate about conservatism working or not for blacks? Many of the arguments put forth in this debate were nonsensical, such as Baldwin complaining about how American society is geared towards whites, and yet doesn’t explain why white colonists should had built a nation for Africans as opposed to building one for themselves. He also fails to explain why he remains in a “racist” white dominated America, when he has the freedom to move to Africa. Buckley also pointed out that the real problem for negroes at the time were the idiot whites in the south voting to keep discrimination against blacks (Democrats). Buckley also pointed out the rising illegitimacy rates in the black community, and as that rate has skyrocketed since then we have seen the effects on the black community. Single parent upbringing is by far the most detrimental thing for a child. That is something conservatives have stood by and have been correct about, while liberals do everything they can to destroy the family unit. How has that liberal ideology worked out for blacks?

How did Selma turn out? It’s one of the poorest run down shit holes in America. Voting Dem has left every black neighborhood and city a complete shit hole, yet you still want to blame conservatives. Well, keep voting the same way for another 100 years, I’m sure it will all magically turn around for you at some point.

Baldwin was 100 percent right. We have the first amendment right to air our grievance with the government just like your white ass. So the next time your punk ass whines about the media, taxes, or government, ask yourself why don't you move back to Europe. We were republicans for 100 years and all we got was jim crow. I live in a republican state, conservative policies fucked up our state. Conservative policy on the federal level fucked up every state. The poorest states are run by republicans so hang up that dumb dried up right wing lie. If we return to the republican party that's full of human scabs like you, we will return to the same jim crow that made us leave the republican party in the first place.

I see your reply doesn’t address what I said, as usual. All you can do is make silly generic accusations that the GOP has “fucked up” your state. How are Republicans going to return us to Jim Crow? Those were Democrat laws. Conservatives would like to see less illegitimate, single parent homes in the black community. Are you saying that is bad? You think rampant illegitimacy rates are good for blacks? Conservatives would like to see blacks become prosperous and paying taxes, instead of being on generational welfare.

You keep complaining you want to be treated equally, yet you keep rejecting polices that would make you equal. You’d rather promote thug culture, let your women raise multiple children from different fathers by herself, and you don’t want businesses to thrive or good middle class jobs to be made available to the black community. You vote for morons like Beijing Biden that would rather ship manufacturing jobs to China, instead of keeping them in America and available to blacks. You want to defund the police, because your Dem masters have told you so, which will lead to skyrocketing violence and crime in black neighborhoods, which in turn will lead to more blacks either dead or in prison. Real racists and white supremacists applaud you for voting Democrat. It’s going to keep you in the same place you’ve been for the last 60 years.

Bullshit. "Conservative" policies will not create equality. Everything you say here are debunked racist stereotypes of black people. We were republicans until 56 years ago. Being republican didn't work then and that was before the party started letting in former southern racist democrats..

 

[IM2]

Here we see a debate with James Baldwin vs. William Buckley on the issue of race. Buckley was soundly defeated. Buckley's message is still the basic philosophy of conservatism.

James Baldwin Debates William F. Buckley (1965)

Debate bookmarked for later. That should be FASCINATING and James Baldwin was a genius, but I'd disagree with you on one point. Republicans tossed Buckley and intellectual conservatism under the bus years ago.

You're 100 percent right. Even Buckley was trying to remake himself before he died.

 

[Godboy]

Conservatism Has Always Been Wrong for Blacks

Leftist policies have done wonders for you people in urban America

The fact you continue posting that right wing drivel shows that you're a fool. Blacks have fared worse in mid sized and rural areas controlled by conservatives. I know that because I have lived in both and currently live in a Kansas town of 60-70 thousand run by conservatives that offers little opportunity for blacks and is racist as hell.

Yeah? What was the crime rate in your Kansas neighborhood? I bet its a fuck of a lot lower than in democrat cities.

 

[theHawk]

The premise of this thread is a lie from the start. Buckley and Baldwin’s “debate” wasn’t about conservatism in the black community at all. It was a pretty lame charge of The American Dream coming at the expense of blacks.

This idea, that wealth is created only at the expense of another, is a Marxist lie. Baldwin is suggesting that the American Dream couldn’t exist without blacks. If that’s true, then why would conservatives favor relocating negroes back to Africa? Wouldn’t they need that cheap labor to exploit in America? IM2 needs to explain that one.

Wealth is built off one’s own labors. It can be exploited from others, as Democrats did with their African slaves, but that does not mean all wealth is created at the expense of others. To suggest whites are against blacks being prosperous is assuming all whites believe this nonsense, that if all blacks were to prosper, it would be at the expense of whites.
But the fact of the matter is, only white liberals that subscribe to these Marxist notions, not conservatives who reject Marxism. Another little conundrum IM2 can explain.

Bullshit. Free Black labor built American wealth. Your argument is ignorant and flies in the face of facts. And this line:

"To suggest whites are against blacks being prosperous is assuming all whites believe this nonsense, that if all blacks were to prosper, it would be at the expense of whites."

Is the most stupid statement made in the history of this forum. You are so ignorant that I bet you can't understand how I can say that.

Tonight's lesson:

Baldwin won the Debate 544 for and 164 against. This is one reason why...

“By a conservative estimate, in 1860 the total value of American slaves was $4 billion, far more than the gold and silver then circulating nationally ($228.3 million, “most of it in the North,” the authors add), total currency ($435.4 million), and even the value of the South’s total farmland ($1.92 billion). Slaves were, to slavers, worth more than everything else they could imagine combined.”

Ned & Constance Sublette, The American Slave Coast: A History of the Slave-Breeding Industry​

Slaves were worth more than the total currency plus all the farmland in the South combined yet did not receive a dime. As I write this America has 1.9 trillion dollars of total currency in circulation according to the federal reserve. In 1860 the total value of slaves was 17- and one-half times more than the money circulating in the economy. Giving todays amount of currency in circulation, the same equivalence in comparison to the value of slaves would make slaves worth 33,250,000,000,000 dollars. Remember that slaves were considered property. Because they were, the following activity could occur.

During slavery, more specifically during the 19th century, wealthy slaveowners looking for a way to get additional capital to buy more slaves came up with an idea- slave backed securities. Your eyes are not playing tricks on you. Slaveowners securitized slavery. Cornell professors Edward E. Baptist and Louis Hyman detailed how it was done in an article published by the Chicago Sun-Times on its website dated March 7, 2014. This is from the article:

In the 1830s, powerful Southern slaveowners wanted to import capital into their states so they could buy more slaves. They came up with a new, two-part idea: mortgaging slaves; and then turning the mortgages into bonds that could be marketed all over the world.

First, American planters organized new banks, usually in new states like Mississippi and Louisiana. Drawing up lists of slaves for collateral, the planters then mortgaged them to the banks they had created, enabling themselves to buy additional slaves to expand cotton production. To provide capital for those loans, the banks sold bonds to investors from around the globe — London, New York, Amsterdam, Paris. The bond buyers, many of whom lived in countries where slavery was illegal, didn’t own individual slaves — just bonds backed by their value. Planters’ mortgage payments paid the interest and the principle on these bond payments. Enslaved human beings had been, in modern financial lingo, “securitized.”

As slave-backed mortgages became paper bonds, everybody profited — except, obviously, enslaved African Americans whose forced labor repaid owners’ mortgages. But investors owed a piece of slave-earned income. Older slave states such as Maryland and Virginia sold slaves to the new cotton states, at securitization-inflated prices, resulting in slave asset bubble. Cotton factor firms like the now-defunct Lehman Brothers — founded in Alabama — became wildly successful. Lehman moved to Wall Street, and for all these firms, every transaction in slave-earned money flowing in and out of the U.S. earned Wall Street firms a fee.

The infant American financial industry nourished itself on profits taken from financing slave traders, cotton brokers and underwriting slave-backed bonds. But though slavery ended in 1865, in the years after the Civil War, black entrepreneurs would find themselves excluded from a financial system originally built on their bodies.

Edward E. Baptist and Louis Hyman, American Finance Grew on the Back of Slaves

So when blacks create a system where they accumulate wealth from forcing whites to work for free, for lower wages than everybody else, deny them certain types of employment, or burn, bomb, vandalize and terrorize whites trying to prosper, you can make this argument:

"To suggest whites are against blacks being prosperous is assuming all whites believe this nonsense, that if all blacks were to prosper, it would be at the expense of whites."

Here endeth the lesson.

You didn’t refute anything I said. If slaves were worth $4 billion, then once freed they would still be worth that much. Sounds like you don’t have any excuses for blacks being so poor after the civil war.
Now, try to address the situation in 1964 to present day, and explain how conservatives wouldn’t want blacks to prosper. Explain how conservatives love paying extra taxes to pay for blacks’ welfare, instead of having blacks be self sufficient like other minorities like the Asians and Jews.