Columbus Day? Let's change it to Mayflower Pilgrims Day

[Seymour Flops]

Those were great Americans, and the first Americans, with no loyalty to England or any other European cesspool, but only to their God and to each other.

They came over on one ship, while Columbus had a ship and two spares to make his journey far less dangerous. They set up a viable system of self-governance before even departing for America. They expected no help from any existing government, and they were right. Government never took interest in North America until American people thrived and created wealth, which attracts government as surely as chum attracts a shark.

"Indiginous People's Day?" Give me a break. The natives that the Mayflower pilgrims met were not "Americans." They could not have drawn you a map of the Continent, or even much of their immediate surroundings. They could not have guess how far the ocean went from their shores, they had never had the brains, courage and initiative to explore it.

We brought them healthcare, plentiful food, literature, and a constitution copied by one of the few tribes that tried to follow our example and better themselves.

 

[White 6]

Those were great Americans, and the first Americans, with no loyalty to England or any other European cesspool, but only to their God and to each other.

They came over on one ship, while Columbus had a ship and two spares to make his journey far less dangerous. They set up a viable system of self-governance before even departing for America. They expected no help from any existing government, and they were right. Government never took interest in North America until American people thrived and created wealth, which attracts government as surely as chum attracts a shark.

"Indiginous People's Day?" Give me a break. The natives that the Mayflower pilgrims met were not "Americans." They could not have drawn you a map of the Continent, or even much of their immediate surroundings. They could not have guess how far the ocean went from their shores, they had never had the brains, courage and initiative to explore it.

We brought them healthcare, plentiful food, literature, and a constitution copied by one of the few tribes that tried to follow our example and better themselves.

Here is an idea. Leave it Columbus day.

 

[Polishprince]

The purpose of Columbus Day is to celebrate the accomplishments of Italian Americans- and I don't think there were any paisans among the Mayflower Pilgrims so it would defeat the reason for the holiday.

 

[excalibur]

Here is an idea. Leave it Columbus day.

Amen!

Christopher Columbus was a great man. Pygmies attempt to tear him down.

 

[Oddball]

 

[Foxfyre]

Columbus was an imperfect man who did some bad things that even those who funded his journey didn't condone. But he was a product of his own time, his own culture that would have been 100% horrified at some things we now consider okay.

We have no heroes and have never had heroes who were not sinners. Who were not flawed people. But such sinners, flawed, imperfect people throughout the ages have accomplished great things and their 'sins' do not negate those accomplishments.

It took great courage for Columbus to sail into the unknown, not knowing how far it would be or whether he would find any land anywhere before he ran out of food or his ships were destroyed by storms or maybe a giant whirlpool at the edge of the Earth. He didn't find the land he was shooting for, but he did find land and proved that it was possible for others to come, settle, develop new societies and a whole new world.

He deserves his own day in commemoration of that. Not as him as some kind of hero but his contribution to history and to the progress of humankind.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Columbus helped the Spanish bring their ultra statist mentality to central and South America.

Nothing worth happening happened until English speaking people colonized North America.

 

[Polishprince]

Columbus helped the Spanish bring their ultra statist mentality to central and South America.

Nothing worth happening happened until English speaking people colonized North America.

Columbus' goal was to re-open up trade with India and China, which was pretty much stifled after the Turks overran the Romans in 1453 . Portugal tackled the problem by going around the Cape of Good Hope. Spain went due west figuring that was a better way to hook up economically with the orientals.

 

[Hellbilly]

Those were great Americans, and the first Americans, with no loyalty to England or any other European cesspool, but only to their God and to each other.

They came over on one ship, while Columbus had a ship and two spares to make his journey far less dangerous. They set up a viable system of self-governance before even departing for America. They expected no help from any existing government, and they were right. Government never took interest in North America until American people thrived and created wealth, which attracts government as surely as chum attracts a shark.

"Indiginous People's Day?" Give me a break. The natives that the Mayflower pilgrims met were not "Americans." They could not have drawn you a map of the Continent, or even much of their immediate surroundings. They could not have guess how far the ocean went from their shores, they had never had the brains, courage and initiative to explore it.

We brought them healthcare, plentiful food, literature, and a constitution copied by one of the few tribes that tried to follow our example and better themselves.

 

[White 6]

Amen!

Christopher Columbus was a great man. Pygmies attempt to tear him down.

A brave man, with the courage of his convictions, at the very least, that opened up passage to the west.

 

[Hellbilly]

A brave man, with the courage of his convictions, at the very least, that opened up passage to the west.

How much courage does it take to slaughter and rape natives?

 

[buttercup]

I seem to be alone on this, so I’ll put my flame suit on but I wish some people would put even half as much time they spend obsessing on holidays on more important things that actually matter. Almost all of them are FAKE “holidays“ that are just commercialized made up holidays designed to get people to spend money on cards and gifts, or designed to push some sort of agenda.
But whatever,

 

[Mushroom]

Those were great Americans, and the first Americans, with no loyalty to England or any other European cesspool, but only to their God and to each other.

As that happened over a month later, that would be a very stupid thing to do.

 

[Mushroom]

How much courage does it take to slaughter and rape natives?

As if they had not been doing that for thousands of years already.

The Mississippian Culture was already in the process of imploding even before Europeans arrived. And were expanding their use of human sacrifice and raiding other settlements to find people to sacrifice. At about the time Columbus was still sailing around the Caribbean Islands, the Mississippian settlements and all of those around them started to throw up massive defensive works to try and protect themselves form the predations of their neighbors, and there is ample evidence of diseases already sweeping the area.

That is why when DeSoto explored the area 40 years later he mostly found ruins and communities that had reverted to savagery. Like the Lakota, which started on a movement of over a thousand miles. And left ruin and hatred in their wake anywhere they traveled.

And even that did not end it. The Pawnee continued their "Morning Star Ritual" into the 19th century. Where they would kidnap a girl of around 14 from another village, then after a lot of ceremony and gang rape, then torture her to death. And many believe it is a holdout from earlier Mississippian traditions. As until the latter half of the 20th century most had no idea how far human sacrifice had evolved in the Mississippian culture and thought that was unique to the groups from Mexico and farther south.

What, do you think the Indians were peaceful people? Who just communed with nature all the time and lived at peace with everything?

 

[Seymour Flops]

I seem to be alone on this, so I’ll put my flame suit on but I wish some people would put even half as much time they spend obsessing on holidays on more important things that actually matter. Almost all of them are FAKE “holidays“ that are just commercialized made up holidays designed to get people to spend money on cards and gifts, or designed to push some sort of agenda.
But whatever,

You're in luck, buttercup!

International Skeptics day is right around the corner.

https://www.awarenessdays.com/awareness-days-calendar/international-skeptics-day-2022/#:~:text=October%2013,13%20is%20International%20Skeptics%20Day.

 

[buttercup]

You're in luck, buttercup!

International Skeptics day is right around the corner.

https://www.awarenessdays.com/awareness-days-calendar/international-skeptics-day-2022/#:~:text=October%2013,13%20is%20International%20Skeptics%20Day.

I'm not an unbeliever.... far from it, I'm a born again Christian. Do you disagree that most holidays are man-made commercialized fake "holidays" designed to either make money or promote an agenda?

 

[Hellbilly]

As if they had not been doing that for thousands of years already.

100% Irrelevant.

 

[Mushroom]

100% Irrelevant.

Why? It is not like they were not doing it already, or even for centuries afterwards.

And what, you think that the Indians could not fight back? And were just defenseless? Heck, the Spanish were almost never able to live in peace with the natives, no matter where they went.

 

[Hellbilly]

Why? It is not like they were not doing it already, or even for centuries afterwards.

Would you have an issue if we raped and murdered your family? After all it’s been going on for centuries, right?

 

[Seymour Flops]

I'm not an unbeliever.... far from it, I'm a born again Christian. Do you disagree that most holidays are man-made commercialized fake "holidays" designed to either make money or promote an agenda?

No, of course they are made up holidays. Lame attempt at humor on my part.