Zone1 How we repair it: some Black Americans’ attitudes toward “reparations”

[BackAgain]

Just for a little balance.

There are actually many black Americans who persist in accepting the baseless and frankly silly contention that institutional racism from over 150 years ago (especially slavery and later Jim Crow-like laws) requires some present day reward to some of the descendants of those who were wronged.

I cannot repair what I never had a hand in. I don’t owe anyone “amends” for stuff I never did wrong to them.

And nobody has a right to demand anything from me for wrongs perpetrated on others by yet other people.

The basic model for reparations is A wrongfully harms B, so A must compensate B and restore B to where B would have been had the wrong not been committed.

If this is our basic model of reparations, then we should ask, with respect to slavery, who are the As and Bs today? After all, both the slaveholders — the As — and their slaves — the Bs — are long dead. So the As and Bs today must be those who stand in the shoes of the slaveholders and slaves and inherit their obligations and rights.

I just found these thoughts here:

The Misguided Call for Reparations

(Larry Alexander) The city of Asheville, North Carolina approved a measure giving its black residents certain benefits as reparations for slavery. Councilman Keith Young, who is black, referred to the “hundreds of years of black blood” that built the city. The mayor of Providence, Rhode Island...

stillnessinthestorm.com

It succinctly gets to the heart of the underlying flaw in the demand for reparations.

I was never a slave holder. Nobody alive today was a victim of the institution of slavery. I deny the authority of my government to assess any “taxes” from me (or to use any portion of the taxes paid by citizens) to “repay” alleged victims who were never the actual victims of other people.

The demand for reparations has no present day philosophical support consistent with fairness or justice. It must be denied.

 

[MisterBeale]

This was a pretty good thread that addressed most of those concerns. I commented once, and only once. The response I got back, violated Zone 1 rules, I reported it, and was done with the thread.

Zone1 - Here is what Blacks Say About Reparations

Everybody not black here has had an opinion on reparations. Most of the opinions are based on rude assumptions. This video is one part of a discussion going on in the the black community about the issue of reparations. Please listen to the video befiore you comment. How To Pay Reparations To...

www.usmessageboard.com

All of this has been debated and wrangled over for decades now. . . the BIGGEST problem, IMO, has not been addressed by this article, which is, THE AMOUNT due, or whether it was that amount which is truly the cause of economic inequality today.

If any significant portion actually is put toward that problem, it would probably, IMO, do more harm than good.

 

[BackAgain]

This was a pretty good thread that addressed most of those concerns. I commented once, and only once. The response I got back, violated Zone 1 rules, I reported it, and was done with the thread.

Zone1 - Here is what Blacks Say About Reparations

Everybody not black here has had an opinion on reparations. Most of the opinions are based on rude assumptions. This video is one part of a discussion going on in the the black community about the issue of reparations. Please listen to the video befiore you comment. How To Pay Reparations To...

www.usmessageboard.com

All of this has been debated and wrangled over for decades now. . . the BIGGEST problem, IMO, has not been addressed by this article, which is, THE AMOUNT due, or whether it was that amount which is truly the cause of economic inequality today.

If any significant portion actually is put toward that problem, it would probably, IMO, do more harm than good.

There is another flying the ointment. Kind of an obvious one in some ways.

There is no known form of taxation which will “take” only from white people. Accordingly, even Hispanic and Asian and black taxpayers will be paying the alleged “reparations” if that silly notion ever gets put into existence.

Also, in a world where I (biological male) can claim that I am woman and where I (a pale white guy) can also declare my own race and ethnicity, who’s to deny me my share of the “reparations?”

 

[Mac-7]

Most successful blacks are too busy succeeding to go begging for dollars - and a free shoe shine

 

[MisterBeale]

Also, in a world where I (biological male) can claim that I am woman and where I (a pale white guy) can also declare my own race and ethnicity, who’s to deny me my share of the “reparations?”

This one, is the one the worries me.

See, many conservatives on this site, are being tricked into supporting national, and global digital ID initiatives. Oh sure, they agreed with ending and shooting down the current immigration bill as it is structured in congress, because Trump wanted it done.

But is it only because it allowed in some immigrants? Are they opposed to the bio-metric screening and profiling that was included in it? Are they opposed to the REAL ID act provisions? I don't know. I don't really think so.

The ruling elites, have purposely pushed this immigration crises, so that when they do get Trump in office, every American, will have to submit to bio-metric profiling and medical database. . . so? You won't need to declare your DNA background. . . big brother will already know your entire genetic background.

This, I believe is what the global ruling elites have caused these border wars too. When these end, the solution will be digital IDs to control people as well.

PROBLEM=>REACTION=>SOLUTION.

This reparations thing, might be all part of that as well.

Hell, with how much of a fad it was, to find out if you had this minority or that minority group in your family lineage among the woke crowd. . even conservative women loved to know their family origin stories, they all got a kick out of it.

Personally, I found it creepy, because I know that the government can get that information from corporations. Snowden already told us, they don't need warrants to get anything from the internet if they don't really want to. The businesses say they can keep it private. . .BUT? We all know anything can be hacked and stolen.

So if your mother, sisters or aunts get that shit for each other as birthday or Christmas gifts? (And let's face it, they all do, they love that family shit,) Corporations and Governments around the world now all have your bio-metric data.. . since, well? We are so closely related. lol

. . . so meh, they don't even need your cooperation at this point I suspect.

5 Best DNA Testing Kits Of 2024: Reviews And Costs

5 Best DNA Testing Kits Of 2024: Reviews And Costs

www.forbes.com

 

[MisterBeale]

There is no known form of taxation which will “take” only from white people. Accordingly, even Hispanic and Asian and black taxpayers will be paying the alleged “reparations” if that silly notion ever gets put into existence.

ON this one?

Government does not care. . . It will tax everyone. It loves to tax tax tax.

And it really isn't about the taxes, it is just about the excuse to borrow and spend, isn't it. Spend until the dollar is destroyed and a new currency, a digital currency that controls how much and where you can spend is introduced.

 

[MarathonMike]

Just for a little balance.

There are actually many black Americans who persist in accepting the baseless and frankly silly contention that institutional racism from over 150 years ago (especially slavery and later Jim Crow-like laws) requires some present day reward to some of the descendants of those who were wronged.

I cannot repair what I never had a hand in. I don’t owe anyone “amends” for stuff I never did wrong to them.

And nobody has a right to demand anything from me for wrongs perpetrated on others by yet other people.



I just found these thoughts here:

The Misguided Call for Reparations

(Larry Alexander) The city of Asheville, North Carolina approved a measure giving its black residents certain benefits as reparations for slavery. Councilman Keith Young, who is black, referred to the “hundreds of years of black blood” that built the city. The mayor of Providence, Rhode Island...

stillnessinthestorm.com

It succinctly gets to the heart of the underlying flaw in the demand for reparations.

I was never a slave holder. Nobody alive today was a victim of the institution of slavery. I deny the authority of my government to assess any “taxes” from me (or to use any portion of the taxes paid by citizens) to “repay” alleged victims who were never the actual victims of other people.

The demand for reparations has no present day philosophical support consistent with fairness or justice. It must be denied.

Reparations is claiming to be a victim of something that never affected you. It is pure nonsense.

 

[BackAgain]

Just a quick update:

There is no legitimate way to “repay” the actual victims of US slavery. They’re all dead.

And anyone who might have owed anyone for slavery is also long dead.

And asking me, a person who never had any role in Jim Crow laws, to compensate anybody for what other people did in that regard is equally a non starter.

The “demands” for “reparations” are the kooky calls of conmen and charlatans.

 

[petro]

A bigger problem would be...
When would it actually end?

You can be damn sure every generation after is going to want "theirs".

The whole notion is preposterous as my ancestors weren't a part of it.
In fact, Russia and Germany owe me some damn money for what they did to my ancestors.

 

[el midgetron]

White people are owed reparations from the violent and xenophobic immigrant-hating Native American Indians. Native Americans have always enforced a strict ethno-state. From the continuous pre-European tribal conflicts, to the territorial assaults on European settlers, to the strict guarding of tribal membership in the era of the reservation casino.

 

[Oddball]

 

[IM2]

This is stupid. Then we have the idiot who asked when will it end?

Have whites stopped asking for things after 8 handouts from the government?

No.

 

[IM2]

This was a pretty good thread that addressed most of those concerns. I commented once, and only once. The response I got back, violated Zone 1 rules, I reported it, and was done with the thread.

Zone1 - Here is what Blacks Say About Reparations

Everybody not black here has had an opinion on reparations. Most of the opinions are based on rude assumptions. This video is one part of a discussion going on in the the black community about the issue of reparations. Please listen to the video befiore you comment. How To Pay Reparations To...

www.usmessageboard.com

All of this has been debated and wrangled over for decades now. . . the BIGGEST problem, IMO, has not been addressed by this article, which is, THE AMOUNT due, or whether it was that amount which is truly the cause of economic inequality today.

If any significant portion actually is put toward that problem, it would probably, IMO, do more harm than good.

The biggest problem is white intransigence. And your last sentence is a pure racist assumption.

1970: Richard Nixon signed into law House Resolution 471 restoring Blue Lake and surrounding area to the Taos Pueblo (New Mexico). The land had been taken by presidential order in 1906. (A History of the Indians in the United States by Angie Debo (Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press, 1984, p. 422); see also "Taos Pueblo celebrates 40th anniversary of Blue Lake's return" by Matthew van Buren, Santa Fe New Mexican, September 18, 2010.)

The payments from 1971-1988 are taken from the booklet Black Reparations Now! 40 Acres, $50 Dollars, and a Mule, + Interest by Dorothy Benton-Lewis; and borrowed from N’COBRA (National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America).

1971: Around $1 billion + 44 million acres of land: Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act.

1974: A $10 million out-of-court settlement was reached between the U.S. government and Tuskegee victims, black men who had been unwitting subjects of a study of untreated syphilis, and who did not receive available treatments. (“The Tuskegee Timeline”, CDC, updated March 2, 2020.)

1980: $81 million: Klamaths of Oregon. ("Spending Spree" by Dylan Darling, Herald and News (Klamath Falls, OR), June 21, 2005.)

1980: $105 million: Sioux of South Dakota for seizure of their land. (United States v. Sioux Nation of Indians, 448 U.S. 371 (1980).)

1985: $12.3 million: Seminoles of Florida. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1985: $31 million: Chippewas of Wisconsin. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

1986: $32 million per 1836 Treaty: Ottawas of Michigan. (see Racial Justice in America: A Reference Handbook by David B. Mustard, 2002, ABC-CLIO, p. 81.)

2016: The U.S. government reached a settlement of $492 million with 17 Native American tribes to resolve lawsuits alleging the federal government mismanaged tribal land, resources, and money. (“U.S. Government To Pay $492 Million To 17 American Indian Tribes” by Rebecca Hersher, NPR, September 27, 2016.)

2018: The Supreme Court, in a 4-4 deadlock, let stand a lower court's order to the state of Washington to make billions of dollars worth of repairs to roads, where the state had built culverts below road channels and structures in a way that prevented salmon from swimming through and reaching their spawning grounds, that had damaged the state’s salmon habitats and contributed to population loss. The case involved the Stevens Treaties, a series of agreements in 1854-55, in which tribes in Washington State gave up millions of acres of land in exchange for "the right to take fish." Implicit in the treaties, courts would later rule, was a guarantee that there would be enough fish for the tribes to harvest. Destroying the habitat reduces the population and thus violates these treaties. This decision directly affects the Swinomish Tribe. ("A Victory For A Tribe That’s Lost Its Salmon" by John Eligon, The New York Times, June 12, 2018.)

Did these reparations do more harm than good?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

 

[el midgetron]

Did these reparations do more harm than good?

They didn‘t do any good. Native Americans are still bitter losers and not any better off due to that money.

Opening Casino’s on their reservations on the other hand has been good for the economic viability of their tribalism.

Considering that Native Americans owned black slaves, why isn’t IM2 petitioning them for his reparations?

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

2x post

 

[FranklinRoosevelt_FTW]

The argument that black folks should get reparations is evil. Simply, because of the fact that white people were enslaved by blacks. As many as 1 million white people were enslaved by blacks in Africa. But either way slavery was a worldwide institution.

Reparations is way to make irresponsible people even more irresponsible and lazy. They meaning some Black people expect a handout for no good reason. And some whites support it …. it really isn’t abomination considering all the poor white people in the USA.

The great majority of Americans reject the BLM narrative, most black and white Americans know and understand that slavery was a worldwide issue.

We are all descendants of slaves<——--this is the most critical point of all that BLM supporters completely ignore or undermine.

…. together united we can make the whole country a better place.


——I’ve also seen some folks make this argument that “Native Americans received reparations, or Jews receive reparations”

Well No Not in the USA. But there are Native American reservations. That shouldn’t exist though. Because of the simple undeniable fact that every human being on the world has descendants who engaged in warfare and the slave trade. Including Jews and Indians.

 

[Unkotare]

There is no end to the logistical, mathematical, logical, political and reasonable ways in which such a foolish notion could never come to fruition.

 

[el midgetron]

…. together united we can make the whole country a better place.

Amen to that brother.

 

[MisterBeale]

Did these reparations do more harm than good?

All government spending always does more harm than good.

Don't ask such foolish questions.