Colorado judge strikes down AR-15 ban, and over 10 round magazine ban....good.

[freyasman]

I've got a lot of feedback, but no explanation of why anyone needs high-powered weaponry.

The AR-15 is not high powered....the 5.56 or .22 version of the rifle is weaker than the deer hunting rifle people use every fall....you have no idea what you are talking about or the issues involved........you talk out of your ass and ask questions that reveal your ignorance.....

It's not a matter of this gun or that gun. Why are you people doing this? I'm trying to find out what you folks are so afraid of. So many Americans, like me, are not afraid to live each day in these United States. You are. What gives? What's your neighborhood like? I live in one in northern Virginia in which I can find people from every nation in the world, but there are no problems, and the food is really good.

I have a first aid kit in my car. Does that mean I am afraid of injuries? I have food and water stored for hurricane season. Does that mean I am afraid of hurricanes?

I also carry a gun. But only when preparing for that does the word fear come into play.

I do not expect to need my first aid kit today. But in the unlikely event that I do need it I have it. I don’t expect to need my Epi-Pen today. But if I do need it I’ll need it badly. The same is true of my pistol. I do not expect to fire a single round today. But if I do need it, then it will be needed badly.

I don’t wake up every day with an erection over the thought of a tourniquet to save a life. I don’t set out to find an excuse to slap an Israeli Battle Bandage on a gushing wound. I don’t dream of a situation where pulling Sam Colt will be needed to save a life. Those are honestly nightmare scenarios. But I refuse to be helpless in the extremely unlikely event I need one of those things.

I don’t know what the day will hold. I am not psychic. I know it is possible. I know it is unlikely. I will probably die having never pulled my gun. Heart attack or emphysema from smoking. But because it is possible if extremely unlikely, I prepare for it as well as other events.

Well, yeah, carrying a first aid kit DOES mean you're afraid of injuries . . . as is quite reasonable, and you are reacting to that fear is a rational fashion. Having food and water supplies stored DOES mean you're afraid of hurricanes . . . which any sane person who lives in an area that gets hurricanes should be, and you are reacting to that fear in a rational fashion.

Anyone who suggests that fear is automatically bad, crazy, or unwarranted and must instantly be denied to the world no matter the risks of doing so is a moron or a liar or both. Fear is a naturally-occurring protective mechanism which exists to warn us of danger and help us prepare to survive it.

 

[freyasman]

Magazine ban?

What magazine ban?

Can't Stop The Signal: DIY 3D Printed GLOCK Magazines

Can't Stop The Signal: DIY 3D Printed GLOCK Magazines - using a stock 3D printer, one AR15.com member discusses the process to make your own Glock magazines.

www.thefirearmblog.com

From the link
"CAN’T STOP THE SIGNAL: DIY 3D PRINTED GLOCK MAGAZINES
All that is needed to print the “Menendez Mags” is a simple consumer grade 3d printer. One of the best values on the market nowadays is the Creality Ender 3, which can be found for less than $200 and is widely regarded as a very good unit. The Ender 3 is popularly widely modified by enthusiasts but is ready to make Glock magazines right out of the box.

3D Printed GLOCK Magazine Credit: Connor S.

3D Printed GLOCK Magazine Credit: Connor S

The files themselves are created and distributed by “Deterrence Dispensed”, not to be confused with Defense Distributed. Deterrence Dispensed is a much more anonymous group that has been releasing various files including AR15 receivers, Glock frames, various tools, and other detailed CAD drawings of firearms. Some of the models are 3d printable, some are for reference only. The most well known source to obtain the files is from Github, at maduce/fosscad-repo. I believe the group would appreciate you sharing their distribution anywhere and everywhere, because widespread exposure is exactly what they want… especially with petty tyrants like Bob Menendez deplatforming them from twitter, and other popular platforms like Reddit inventing pretenses to ban them without warning.

Once you have the files you want, you’ll need to process them in a program called a “slicer”. There are a number of slicers out there, but the most well known are Ultimaker Cura and Slic3r. Cura is probably the most popular for its wide range of features and much more approachable interface. The two screencaps show what you see when opening 3d models for printing- a model that you can orient and modify the size of. These programs do not allow for end-user 3d model editing itself, and are mostly used to convert your models into “G-code”, which is the instructions your printer processes to print your files.

On the popular Ender 3, I am able to print up to 7 magazines at once. Until you have your printer well calibrated, I would encourage you to just do one at a time to save on filament in case there are any mistakes or mechanical errors. My average time for printing the magazines is around 6.5 hours per magazine.

All parts of the magazine other than the follower can be printed at once; due to the shape of the follower it requires supporting material be built into it and removed in post processing after it is done (this is just extra non-structural plastic used to build parts that would otherwise be hanging in thin air when printed, and is easily torn off and discarded after the part is complete). Removing the excess support material takes only a few seconds.

3D Printed GLOCK Magazine Credit: Connor S

3D Printed GLOCK Magazine Credit: Connor S
Find GLOCK Magazines

The pictures of the three magazines show a factory glock magazine, a magpul brand magazine, and a printed “menendez” magazine.

There are pictures included of a factory glock frame (a G35 with a 9mm conversion barrel) and a polymer 80 G19L build. The magazine works fine in both, although fresh off the press they do not “drop free” but can be sanded lightly to get them to do so.

The disassembled magazines show a comparison of a factory mag with a factory spring to a “Menendez mag”. The Menendez Mag has a increased power spring- I wanted to see if it could handle it, and it certainly can with no issues.

Printing a single magazine requires 40 grams of filament according to Cura. This means you could print 25 magazines from a 1 kilogram spool of filament. That may be a bit optimistic due to waste or failed prints, but realistically you’re looking at magazine prices in the $0.87 (yes, really) range using the recommended filament based on current amazon prices. Your springs can be indefinitely reused if you do manage to wear out a magazine body, which may eventually fail when the feed lips spread or are cracked."

 

[daveman]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

The AR-15 is not an "Assault" weapon, it is just a common semi-automatic rifle.....so your premise is a lie from the start.

The AR-15 is a great civilian and police rifle, easy to clean and maintain, it can be equipped with accessories that help people shoot it, from lasers to lights, it is customizable for different sized people, including the ability for different sized people in the same home to use it easily with adjustable stocks. It is easy to shoot for smaller people, unlike 12 gauge shot guns, it is lightweight which makes it good for home defense where you might have to hold it one handed while calling the police on your phone.............

The AR-15 is a really good rifle for civilians...for all of those reasons....and it is nothing more than a regular rifle....

The only reason you shitheads are demonizing the outside look of this rifle is that you figure if you can ban the AR-15, which is just a semi-automatic rifle no different from any other semi-automatic rifle.....that then gives you the ability to go to uninformed people and say......"See....you let us ban this rifle because we made you think it was different and more dangerous.......all the other semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns work the exact same way, so now we are going to ban those too...and you can't say anything since you let us ban the AR-15 which is the same as those other weapons."

We know who you are, we know what you want.........and we are going to fight you every step of the way.

Fine. Fight it through legislation the way it should be done in the first place. But the problem with the AR was that it reached cult status and no mass shooter, today, leaves home dressed any other way. It just wouldn't be proper.

And the AR is still a Model 6XX no matter how you spell it. You can call it the Colt Model 6920 or the Colt Model 750 (out of production) or you can piece on together from after market parts. In the end, it's still part of the Colt Model 6XX Family. It's not designed with hunting for food. It's was designed from the ground up to kill other humans. Not one part has any other use. And there is no way you can give it the drop dead looks of a fine Hunting Rifle.

So your opposition is IT LOOKS SCARY.

Run along, Fudd.

No. You are just using the same tired rhetoric that you have used over and over and have failed with. The fact still remains that not one ounce of the AR was designed for anything other than to kill people as quickly and efficiently as possible in inexperienced hands.

Actually, the 5.56mm round wasn't designed to kill people, it was designed to INJURE them. If you kill a soldier on the battlefield, you take one person out of the force equation, if you wound one person, you take at least three people (the injured person plus at least two people caring for him) out of the force equation. If you want a round designed to kill people, look no further than the .45 ACP shot by the M1911 pistol. It was specifically designed for one shot stopping power by the US Army when the then standard .38 round took multiple hits to stop charging Morro guerillas.

The use of expanding bullets is classed as a war crime by international treaty.

What has that got to do with my post? Neither the 5.56mm or the .45 ACP in military configuration are expanding bullets. Both are perfectly legal under the Geneva Conventions and will be until it becomes illegal to injure an opposing combatant.

The discussion triggered a memory of Law Of Armed Conflict training from my military career. It also counters Vrenn's hysterical claims that the AR-15 is a scary deadly weapon designed to do nothing but kill.

And packing a M-16 for days on end tells me exactly what the AR was intended for. Not oncew have any of you countered the fact that the design and construction of the AR is for wholesale killing people. You gunnutters are going in my ignore file where you belong. Just like you are for most of America.

If you packed an M-16 for days on end you wouldn't be such a *****.

 

[daveman]

I am not placing you on ignore because you do make some sense. Okay, not a lot of it, but some. I am not wanting to ban the AR. But I am in favor of regulating it to make it not be the weapon of choice for the New Body Count Record Holder in the Schools, Movies and such. That got old fast, real fast. To date, the record was set in Nevada. And something as simple as requiring the use of 15 round mags would have slowed things down a bit. I am not after stopping the shootings (not going to happen)_ but I am after reducing the body count and putting a big dent in the Cult Status. If reducing the number of rounds per mag does it (and it obviously has) then that's a good thing.

I also don't ding States, Counties and Cities that pass their own regulations to make their citizens feel safer. I do condemn the state next to them that won't and export all the nasties to the ones that have when it's found that this is a huge problem (i.e. Illinois v Indiana). And this one isn't about just the AR, it's about ALL firearms.

Of course, Kansas has a lot of nerve complaining that people are going right across the border and legally buying MJ when they same thing is happening with the 30 round mags purchased in Kansas. But Stoners rarely are mass shooters because they just don't care.....what was I saying again?

Okay, so let's go through this:

What you are saying is that we implement some sort of firearm ban, in this case, a limited magazine. Upon this law being passed, and millions of Americans who don't comply now being criminals upon the discovery, arrest, and conviction for having a 15 round magazine, it's worth it because it's better if a maniac kills only 49 students in a school shooting instead of 50? Because after all, I posted a video (if you bothered to watch it) how effortlessly a magazine can be changed. In other words, it wouldn't make any difference in the world.

Even if you are satisfied with only 49 students getting killed instead of 50, do you think your party would share your same satisfaction, and stop pushing for more restrictions?

You keep talking about banning. I haven't said a thing about it. This is just one more "Routine" that you gunnutters have that you try and instill fear and awe into other gun owners. Talk to me about regulation.

As for the dead body count, it started out with pistols and 9mm semi auto rifles. Got a pretty good body count. But it switched to 30+ round mags (lots of them) and the AR and the new body count was established. There is no way that one person can get over 50 dead and over 400 wounded with hand guns. But, obviously, it can (and has been) done using ARs. The common fruitcake with mass shooting on his mind might get 9 or 10 (20 on a good day) and wound not many more than that before he's brought down using a handgun or standard semi auto rifle. But that same shooter can use an AR with a 30+ mag (4 or them) and easily bag 40. and wound over 100. Common sense says, limit the mag size to 15 and you halve the dead body count in half.

Actually, the majority of the Population agrees with me at 57% for stricter firearms regulations. It's even supported by 31% of the Republicans. https://www.npr.org/2019/10/20/771278167/poll-number-of-americans-who-favor-stricter-gun-laws-continues-to-grow

Share of Americans who favor stricter gun laws has increased since 2017Poll: 90% of Registered Voters Want Firearms Background Checks

Americans underestimate public support for key gun policies

There is a lot more out there. Either you work with us or you might lose a hell of a lot more than you think. If for one second the politicos believe you are unhinged, they may swing way to far to the fringe. And it would take decades to swing it back. Work to get common sense gun regulations where you don't have to turn your gun in or even register it nor have a license to own it in most states. Or you can keep going like you are and ALA California.

We have worked with you for decades. You keep pushing for more.

No.

 

[daveman]

You didn't answer my question Moon Bat.

How are my firearms a threat to your ***** ass?

you mean other than you might have a "Really bad day" and shoot up some place that I am at.

The best argument for gun control is a five minute conversation with a gun nut.

You're more likely to be killed by a practicing doctor than you are a legal gun owner.

And there you are, insisting government take over healthcare and kill even more people.

You can stop pretending you care about people.

 

[daveman]

You are confused about this Moon Bat.

There is not what you stupid uneducated Moon Bats call "gun" violence. It is just crime and it is mostly in our Democrat controlled big city shitholes among mostly minority demographics. The crimes are mostly among gang bangers, druggies, street thugs and other assorted lowlifes. You know, the core voting block for the Democrat Party. The ones that don't obey the existing laws now, no less any more law you idiots want to pass.

That's not true, either. In fact, according to the National Gang Center, only 2200 murders a year are "Gang related". That is out of 19,000 homicides a year in the US. Most homicides are domestic violence. Not to mention the 19,000 gun suicides every year..

We don't need to study jackshit because we know where the crime is at an who is doing it and passing more stringent gun control laws ain't gonna change anything. Passing oppressive laws that only law abiding citizens will obey that don't commit the crime won't change anything.

Again- what upset the gun lobby is that it found that a gun in the home was 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a bad guy. This panicked the Gun Lobby. OH MY GOD, they're on to us!!!

Still spewing the horseshit you've been programmed with, and that has been proven to be a lie.

For a Useful Idiot, you're not very useful.

 

[SavannahMann]

But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.

Really? You do know with your extensive Military Experience that the 5.56 was chosen because it created “Militarily Significant Wounds” don’t you? The idea for the readers who don’t know is that one wounded soldier takes four people out of the battle. Two to carry the wounded and one to provide security, or carry excess equipment.

A dead guy takes one off the field. A wounded takes several. And the screams of the wounded demoralize the remaining soldiers. Making them less likely to be aggressive.

The other reason the 5.56 was chosen was suppression fire. Most rounds fired are meant to get the other guy to keep his head down. The 5.56 would allow the soldier to carry more ammo with the same weight.

How would the Las Vegas shooting have played out with a .308 hunting rifle? First. The slower fire would have delayed the discovery longer. Second. The numbers killed would probably have been higher. Third, by picking his shots he would have been able to hit one with a high likelihood of hitting two. I could go on.

In nearly all the mass shooting situations a different weapon would have done more damage. A shotgun in the school shootings. Two or more wounded with every trigger pull as one example.

The one thing the mass shootings have in common is the shooters use the technique of spray and pray. Random fire to maybe hit someone. By firing into crowds they increase the likelihood of hitting someone. But as statistics show roughly 10% of those hit actually die. If we are intending to save lives why do anything to increase the probability of someone dying?

A weapon is not a magic wand of death.

No it was chosen because it was a light and small round and soldiers could carry a lot of ammo.

In fact the military has long thought the 5.56 round was under powered and are currently reintroducing the 6.8 mm

Ammo Firm Unveils 6.8mm Cartridge for Army’s Next-Gen Squad Weapon | Military.com

www.military.com

The 6.8 can be fired from the AR. It's the same length of cartridge, just the cartridge and bullet are bigger diameter meaning a higher impact. It doesn't mean a higher velocity, in fact, it's a slight lower velocity. But the bullet throw weight is more meaning more shock.

As I said earlier. No understanding of science. Let’s talk about kinetic energy. One of the least understood types of energy. Although I doubt most people understand much about any of them.

Kinetic Energy is ruled by a math formula. Put simply. Energy is equal to 1/2 Mass times Velocity Squared. So the bigger bullet traveling slower would have less shock. Not more. It is why the .45 ACP has about the same kinetic energy of a 9MM despite weighing twice as much. The 9MM has a higher velocity.

Higher velocities also create larger temporary wound channels. In other words the tissue around the bullet hole that is stretched, bruised, and torn by the passing of high velocity materials.

This is from a Doctor who will explain it fairly well.



I know. You don’t believe the tumbling bullet. I am not going to spend the next several days educating you on science.

However. Let’s stick with bullet size and velocity.

A former special-operations doctor explains why he would rather be shot with an AK-47 than an M4

I’d rather not be shot with either, but if I had to choose, I’d take a round from an AK-47 over the M4 any day of the week.

www.businessinsider.com

The AK fires a bigger bullet. It should create a worse wound. Logically it would right? But here is where understanding the Math is vital. Because the bullet is slower the wound is not as bad. Remember when I said the 5.56 had satisfactory wound dynamics? Past of that equation is the temporary wound cavity. The tissue around the bullet path that is damaged or destroyed.

Now a faster bullet that is larger is much worse. The .50 BMG is both heavy and fast. So the wounds are much worse from that round.

There is a lot of science behind firearms and shooting. Until you understand that math it is hard to speak either accurately or logically on the subject. That by the way is why the 6.8 isn’t going to be adapted.

 

[Vrenn]

But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.

Really? You do know with your extensive Military Experience that the 5.56 was chosen because it created “Militarily Significant Wounds” don’t you? The idea for the readers who don’t know is that one wounded soldier takes four people out of the battle. Two to carry the wounded and one to provide security, or carry excess equipment.

A dead guy takes one off the field. A wounded takes several. And the screams of the wounded demoralize the remaining soldiers. Making them less likely to be aggressive.

The other reason the 5.56 was chosen was suppression fire. Most rounds fired are meant to get the other guy to keep his head down. The 5.56 would allow the soldier to carry more ammo with the same weight.

How would the Las Vegas shooting have played out with a .308 hunting rifle? First. The slower fire would have delayed the discovery longer. Second. The numbers killed would probably have been higher. Third, by picking his shots he would have been able to hit one with a high likelihood of hitting two. I could go on.

In nearly all the mass shooting situations a different weapon would have done more damage. A shotgun in the school shootings. Two or more wounded with every trigger pull as one example.

The one thing the mass shootings have in common is the shooters use the technique of spray and pray. Random fire to maybe hit someone. By firing into crowds they increase the likelihood of hitting someone. But as statistics show roughly 10% of those hit actually die. If we are intending to save lives why do anything to increase the probability of someone dying?

A weapon is not a magic wand of death.

No it was chosen because it was a light and small round and soldiers could carry a lot of ammo.

In fact the military has long thought the 5.56 round was under powered and are currently reintroducing the 6.8 mm

Ammo Firm Unveils 6.8mm Cartridge for Army’s Next-Gen Squad Weapon | Military.com

www.military.com

The 6.8 can be fired from the AR. It's the same length of cartridge, just the cartridge and bullet are bigger diameter meaning a higher impact. It doesn't mean a higher velocity, in fact, it's a slight lower velocity. But the bullet throw weight is more meaning more shock.

As I said earlier. No understanding of science. Let’s talk about kinetic energy. One of the least understood types of energy. Although I doubt most people understand much about any of them.

Kinetic Energy is ruled by a math formula. Put simply. Energy is equal to 1/2 Mass times Velocity Squared. So the bigger bullet traveling slower would have less shock. Not more. It is why the .45 ACP has about the same kinetic energy of a 9MM despite weighing twice as much. The 9MM has a higher velocity.

Higher velocities also create larger temporary wound channels. In other words the tissue around the bullet hole that is stretched, bruised, and torn by the passing of high velocity materials.

This is from a Doctor who will explain it fairly well.



I know. You don’t believe the tumbling bullet. I am not going to spend the next several days educating you on science.

However. Let’s stick with bullet size and velocity.

A former special-operations doctor explains why he would rather be shot with an AK-47 than an M4

I’d rather not be shot with either, but if I had to choose, I’d take a round from an AK-47 over the M4 any day of the week.

www.businessinsider.com

The AK fires a bigger bullet. It should create a worse wound. Logically it would right? But here is where understanding the Math is vital. Because the bullet is slower the wound is not as bad. Remember when I said the 5.56 had satisfactory wound dynamics? Past of that equation is the temporary wound cavity. The tissue around the bullet path that is damaged or destroyed.

Now a faster bullet that is larger is much worse. The .50 BMG is both heavy and fast. So the wounds are much worse from that round.

There is a lot of science behind firearms and shooting. Until you understand that math it is hard to speak either accurately or logically on the subject. That by the way is why the 6.8 isn’t going to be adapted.

Wow, talk down to others much?

Much of the 5.56 will be spent on the background. But let's say it doesn't hit a vital organ. It will cause a shock as it passes. It's just enough. The 6.8 probably won't be adopted for a lot of reasons and wounds won't be one of the deciding factors. What they are trying to figure out is how to make the M-16 get a little further out and a heavier bullet is easier to control. Even though the 556 can do a shot out to 600 yds, it's actually only good out to about 300 yds. Even though the AK-47 is slower, and the trajectory will be higher, it can still do damage at 600 yds. The 6.8 can also go out to 600 yds with a better trajectory than the AK-47.
But most of the time, there will be at least one battle rifle (7.62) in the unit that can go out past 1000 yds in good hands. Trying to take any Assault Rifle against a Battle Rifle at 600 yds is pretty much suicide. But the Battle Rifle will be very tiresome to lug around and not have nearly as many rounds on the person. Most Battle Rifle shooters have weapons carriers carrying one ammo pack with them. That Ammo Grunt will also be carrying his own M-16. I don't see the 6.8 coming onto the line due to a lot of factors and most of them have been already stated by others in here. The 556 is just good enough.

 

[Lysistrata]

Boulder, Colo. Today. How many dead?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

Explain what an assault weapon is ?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

But guns get misused. All I am trying to do is to agree with the "LAW" that limits the amount of ammo carried. That, alone, keeps the body count to a lower level when they ARE misused.

You have zero evidence to backup that claim.

That is logic. Let’s say I have a five shot revolver. Obviously I can’t shoot fifty people. At least not without reloading nine times.

Conversely if the revolver is a .357 Magnum, the damage done would be significantly worse than if I was using a less powerful cartridge of the type normally found in high capacity magazines.

And the damage from a .44 Magnum would be catastrophic by comparison.

That is something the focus on magazine capacity crew never understands. If High Capacity Mags are not available people will gravitate towards the more powerful cartridges again. A .308 is roughly speaking twice as powerful as a .223 and that means more damage to the person.

In fact a .30 cal rifle cartridge is probably going to be a through and through wound. In other words there is a good possibility that you will wound a second firing into a crowd.

But people don’t understand science. And ballistics as well as firearms are a science. Even pro gun people allow bias to influence them.

Which due to size of gun and cartridge size and weight limits the number of rounds available. In the Military, there is a huge size and power difference between an Assault Rifle (.556) versus a full blown Battle Rifle (7.62 or bigger). And the cost of the Battle Rifle (even in semi auto) will far exceed most fruitcake shooters pocket books. And trying to use a hunting version is just stupid.

Really? You do know with your extensive Military Experience that the 5.56 was chosen because it created “Militarily Significant Wounds” don’t you? The idea for the readers who don’t know is that one wounded soldier takes four people out of the battle. Two to carry the wounded and one to provide security, or carry excess equipment.

A dead guy takes one off the field. A wounded takes several. And the screams of the wounded demoralize the remaining soldiers. Making them less likely to be aggressive.

The other reason the 5.56 was chosen was suppression fire. Most rounds fired are meant to get the other guy to keep his head down. The 5.56 would allow the soldier to carry more ammo with the same weight.

How would the Las Vegas shooting have played out with a .308 hunting rifle? First. The slower fire would have delayed the discovery longer. Second. The numbers killed would probably have been higher. Third, by picking his shots he would have been able to hit one with a high likelihood of hitting two. I could go on.

In nearly all the mass shooting situations a different weapon would have done more damage. A shotgun in the school shootings. Two or more wounded with every trigger pull as one example.

The one thing the mass shootings have in common is the shooters use the technique of spray and pray. Random fire to maybe hit someone. By firing into crowds they increase the likelihood of hitting someone. But as statistics show roughly 10% of those hit actually die. If we are intending to save lives why do anything to increase the probability of someone dying?

A weapon is not a magic wand of death.

No it was chosen because it was a light and small round and soldiers could carry a lot of ammo.

In fact the military has long thought the 5.56 round was under powered and are currently reintroducing the 6.8 mm

Ammo Firm Unveils 6.8mm Cartridge for Army’s Next-Gen Squad Weapon | Military.com

www.military.com

The 6.8 can be fired from the AR. It's the same length of cartridge, just the cartridge and bullet are bigger diameter meaning a higher impact. It doesn't mean a higher velocity, in fact, it's a slight lower velocity. But the bullet throw weight is more meaning more shock.

As I said earlier. No understanding of science. Let’s talk about kinetic energy. One of the least understood types of energy. Although I doubt most people understand much about any of them.

Kinetic Energy is ruled by a math formula. Put simply. Energy is equal to 1/2 Mass times Velocity Squared. So the bigger bullet traveling slower would have less shock. Not more. It is why the .45 ACP has about the same kinetic energy of a 9MM despite weighing twice as much. The 9MM has a higher velocity.

Higher velocities also create larger temporary wound channels. In other words the tissue around the bullet hole that is stretched, bruised, and torn by the passing of high velocity materials.

This is from a Doctor who will explain it fairly well.



I know. You don’t believe the tumbling bullet. I am not going to spend the next several days educating you on science.

However. Let’s stick with bullet size and velocity.

A former special-operations doctor explains why he would rather be shot with an AK-47 than an M4

I’d rather not be shot with either, but if I had to choose, I’d take a round from an AK-47 over the M4 any day of the week.

www.businessinsider.com

The AK fires a bigger bullet. It should create a worse wound. Logically it would right? But here is where understanding the Math is vital. Because the bullet is slower the wound is not as bad. Remember when I said the 5.56 had satisfactory wound dynamics? Past of that equation is the temporary wound cavity. The tissue around the bullet path that is damaged or destroyed.

Now a faster bullet that is larger is much worse. The .50 BMG is both heavy and fast. So the wounds are much worse from that round.

There is a lot of science behind firearms and shooting. Until you understand that math it is hard to speak either accurately or logically on the subject. That by the way is why the 6.8 isn’t going to be adapted.

Wow, talk down to others much?

Much of the 5.56 will be spent on the background. But let's say it doesn't hit a vital organ. It will cause a shock as it passes. It's just enough. The 6.8 probably won't be adopted for a lot of reasons and wounds won't be one of the deciding factors. What they are trying to figure out is how to make the M-16 get a little further out and a heavier bullet is easier to control. Even though the 556 can do a shot out to 600 yds, it's actually only good out to about 300 yds. Even though the AK-47 is slower, and the trajectory will be higher, it can still do damage at 600 yds. The 6.8 can also go out to 600 yds with a better trajectory than the AK-47.
But most of the time, there will be at least one battle rifle (7.62) in the unit that can go out past 1000 yds in good hands. Trying to take any Assault Rifle against a Battle Rifle at 600 yds is pretty much suicide. But the Battle Rifle will be very tiresome to lug around and not have nearly as many rounds on the person. Most Battle Rifle shooters have weapons carriers carrying one ammo pack with them. That Ammo Grunt will also be carrying his own M-16. I don't see the 6.8 coming onto the line due to a lot of factors and most of them have been already stated by others in here. The 556 is just good enough.

The effective range for an M-16 is 600 yards for point targets and 800 for area.

 

[Vrenn]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

Explain what an assault weapon is ?

Legally, it's a Military light individual rifle. It has no meaning in the Civilian world. Now, ask him to explain legally what an AR-15 and it's various clones are?

 

[Lysistrata]

Please explain why this is so important to you to have an AR-15. We had guns in the house in leather locked bags and we shot them. I even pulled the trigger when my father sighted. He taught me to never pull a gun on any living being. I violated this teaching once, in Castroville, Texas, when I was 12 and practicing with my aunt's pistol. I shot at a spider on the back of the garage.

Explain yourself and why you would need an assault weapon.

Explain what an assault weapon is ?

Who cares at this point. If you love this shit, YOU COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. Over to you. Growing up, we were responsible with guns and my father taught gun safety: never point it at another sentient creature. We didn't grow up scared, so don't give me your horseshit.

 

[Esdraelon]

They just have to pay a 200 tax.

Yea, that's a bullshit rule. The political left is determined to DESTROY this nation and they're getting the job done!

They seem to be on a tear these days but if they come for 2A with those two abominations that Feinstein and Jackson-Lee put together, I think they are going to realize it was a bridge too far. Of course, their intent is to ultimately disarm those who resist them but for the short term, they can silence dissent by making millions of us overnight Felons. If we know we would be railroaded into a prison cell we'd be a lot less likely to speak out against them. Marxism 101.
Hopefully, the states that still want to be ruled constitutionally will join together to demand their local state LEOs refuse to help with this power grab. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that all red state governments will risk the loss of Pork just to do the right thing for their citizens. Oh well, we all make choices. They come for the guns, no amount of cash from Uncle Sugar will make up for the chaos that will follow.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Boulder, Colo. Today. How many dead?

Did this judge's ruling cause it?

 

[Lysistrata]

They just have to pay a 200 tax.

Yea, that's a bullshit rule. The political left is determined to DESTROY this nation and they're getting the job done!

They seem to be on a tear these days but if they come for 2A with those two abominations that Feinstein and Jackson-Lee put together, I think they are going to realize it was a bridge too far. Of course, their intent is to ultimately disarm those who resist them but for the short term, they can silence dissent by making millions of us overnight Felons. If we know we would be railroaded into a prison cell we'd be a lot less likely to speak out against them. Marxism 101.
Hopefully, the states that still want to be ruled constitutionally will join together to demand their local state LEOs refuse to help with this power grab. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that all red state governments will risk the loss of Pork just to do the right thing for their citizens. Oh well, we all make choices. They come for the guns, no amount of cash from Uncle Sugar will make up for the chaos that will follow.

What "power grab"? Who is this "they"? Who are you going to shoot at? This is not understandable. Ten dead today. Eight on Tuesday. How many mass shootings do we Americans have to endure? We don't have to fight the British anymore. Now we have a standing military. What is this "marxism" stuff about? This sounds like some right-wing trash stuff. Shame on you. Bottom line: whom do you feel you have to fight? Other Americans? Or are you anticipating some sort of invasion from a foreign country? Explain, please. You seem to be living in some sort of fantasy in which you are a "hero."

 

[K9Buck]

They just have to pay a 200 tax.

Yea, that's a bullshit rule. The political left is determined to DESTROY this nation and they're getting the job done!

They seem to be on a tear these days but if they come for 2A with those two abominations that Feinstein and Jackson-Lee put together, I think they are going to realize it was a bridge too far. Of course, their intent is to ultimately disarm those who resist them but for the short term, they can silence dissent by making millions of us overnight Felons. If we know we would be railroaded into a prison cell we'd be a lot less likely to speak out against them. Marxism 101.
Hopefully, the states that still want to be ruled constitutionally will join together to demand their local state LEOs refuse to help with this power grab. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that all red state governments will risk the loss of Pork just to do the right thing for their citizens. Oh well, we all make choices. They come for the guns, no amount of cash from Uncle Sugar will make up for the chaos that will follow.

What "power grab"? Who is this "they"? Who are you going to shoot at? This is not understandable. Ten dead today. Eight on Tuesday. How many mass shootings do we Americans have to endure? We don't have to fight the British anymore. Now we have a standing military. What is this "marxism" stuff about? This sounds like some right-wing trash stuff. Shame on you. Bottom line: whom do you feel you have to fight? Other Americans? Or are you anticipating some sort of invasion from a foreign country? Explain, please. You seem to be living in some sort of fantasy in which you are a "hero."

Who cares? Just pretend that they were all dead, black, Chicago, youths and then you will no longer give a ****. You're welcome.

 

[Lysistrata]

They just have to pay a 200 tax.

Yea, that's a bullshit rule. The political left is determined to DESTROY this nation and they're getting the job done!

They seem to be on a tear these days but if they come for 2A with those two abominations that Feinstein and Jackson-Lee put together, I think they are going to realize it was a bridge too far. Of course, their intent is to ultimately disarm those who resist them but for the short term, they can silence dissent by making millions of us overnight Felons. If we know we would be railroaded into a prison cell we'd be a lot less likely to speak out against them. Marxism 101.
Hopefully, the states that still want to be ruled constitutionally will join together to demand their local state LEOs refuse to help with this power grab. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that all red state governments will risk the loss of Pork just to do the right thing for their citizens. Oh well, we all make choices. They come for the guns, no amount of cash from Uncle Sugar will make up for the chaos that will follow.

What "power grab"? Who is this "they"? Who are you going to shoot at? This is not understandable. Ten dead today. Eight on Tuesday. How many mass shootings do we Americans have to endure? We don't have to fight the British anymore. Now we have a standing military. What is this "marxism" stuff about? This sounds like some right-wing trash stuff. Shame on you. Bottom line: whom do you feel you have to fight? Other Americans? Or are you anticipating some sort of invasion from a foreign country? Explain, please. You seem to be living in some sort of fantasy in which you are a "hero."

Who cares? Just pretend that they were all dead, black, Chicago, youths and then you will no longer give a ****. You're welcome.

Why are you such a COWARD that you cannot live in the United States with your fellow Americans? Who in the hell are you going to shoot at? Dumbshit. You are very scared. I'm not. I don't live in Chicago and I'm not black. Are you some white-trash boy in Alabama scared of your own shadow? Are you a putin's poodle hiding under the bed with some wispy beard thinking you're a "soldier"? Sounds like. try and grow up.

 

[K9Buck]

They just have to pay a 200 tax.

Yea, that's a bullshit rule. The political left is determined to DESTROY this nation and they're getting the job done!

They seem to be on a tear these days but if they come for 2A with those two abominations that Feinstein and Jackson-Lee put together, I think they are going to realize it was a bridge too far. Of course, their intent is to ultimately disarm those who resist them but for the short term, they can silence dissent by making millions of us overnight Felons. If we know we would be railroaded into a prison cell we'd be a lot less likely to speak out against them. Marxism 101.
Hopefully, the states that still want to be ruled constitutionally will join together to demand their local state LEOs refuse to help with this power grab. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that all red state governments will risk the loss of Pork just to do the right thing for their citizens. Oh well, we all make choices. They come for the guns, no amount of cash from Uncle Sugar will make up for the chaos that will follow.

What "power grab"? Who is this "they"? Who are you going to shoot at? This is not understandable. Ten dead today. Eight on Tuesday. How many mass shootings do we Americans have to endure? We don't have to fight the British anymore. Now we have a standing military. What is this "marxism" stuff about? This sounds like some right-wing trash stuff. Shame on you. Bottom line: whom do you feel you have to fight? Other Americans? Or are you anticipating some sort of invasion from a foreign country? Explain, please. You seem to be living in some sort of fantasy in which you are a "hero."

Who cares? Just pretend that they were all dead, black, Chicago, youths and then you will no longer give a ****. You're welcome.

Why are you such a COWARD that you cannot live in the United States with your fellow Americans? Who in the hell are you going to shoot at? Dumbshit. You are very scared. I'm not. I don't live in Chicago and I'm not black. Are you some white-trash boy in Alabama scared of your own shadow? Are you a putin's poodle hiding under the bed with some wispy beard thinking you're a "soldier"? Sounds like. try and grow up.

I'm just trying to make you feel better. This stuff happens daily in America's ghettos and you don't care. So just think of today's victims as just more dead black kids. Then, as usual, you'll no longer care.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What "power grab"? Who is this "they"? Who are you going to shoot at? This is not understandable. Ten dead today. Eight on Tuesday. How many mass shootings do we Americans have to endure? We don't have to fight the British anymore. Now we have a standing military. What is this "marxism" stuff about? This sounds like some right-wing trash stuff. Shame on you. Bottom line: whom do you feel you have to fight? Other Americans? Or are you anticipating some sort of invasion from a foreign country? Explain, please. You seem to be living in some sort of fantasy in which you are a "hero."

Yes, we need our arms to fight other Americans. Just because you're an American doesn't mean you are not ruthless or capable of hurting or killing other people. While we do live in a more organized society than our founders, if we are to be honest, the police are only good after a crime is committed. Up to that time, you can only rely on your own resources to defend your life and that of your family.

When you create laws to disarm law abiding citizens, it has no effect on those who are not like the mass shooters you brought up. They will always find a way to obtain firearms, and what we end up with is a society where only the criminals and police have the guns.

If you're so confident that a society would benefit by being disarmed, do this: Get a huge sign made that says THIS HOUSEHOLD HAS NO FIREARMS. Put that on your front porch for everybody to see, and get back to us in a month or two to tell us how that worked out for you, if you're still alive by then.

In other words, the reason anti-gun people like you are safer is because of pro-gunners like us. A criminal eyeing out your home or vehicle has no idea if you are capable of defending yourself. If you disarm good law abiding citizens, it's really no different than getting that sign made and posting it on your front porch. The criminals know all of us would be defenseless against their aggression.