Colorado baker told to bake that cake

[pknopp]

I understand that....

Baking is a LOT of hard work for pennies....literally.
A baker is a baker because of passion. He is passionate about baking cakes. His very identity goes into every product sold.

Which is why every bakery has their own unique take on their menu. Menus might appear similar but in truth they aren't.

And in a shop like this...if you don't like a customer...they get nothing custom. The Seinfeld "Soup Nazi" is an actually accurate depiction of bakers. We are sour individuals....we don't care. It may seem laughable and counter productive but if you want generic go to Walmart or Publix for a cake....they will be happy to do whatever.

But an independent cake baker's success is built on selective menus and his passion to create your cake. If he doesn't want to make that cake....he won't. My business partner had more than one hissy fit because I refused to make Publix style kids cookies.
One of the first things he did after I left was to bake those cookies.
He made one batch (well he commissioned them as he cant cook)....they went stale. He is in the process of going out of business because of my departure.

But he got his cookies. Whoopee....at the cost of his business. A half million dollar batch of cookies....because that's what he is going to lose from going out of business.

A successful and good chief baker are very rare commodities. Especially for independent bakeries. We don't grow on trees. We can command 6 figure salaries easily. We work for the independent bakeries because we can do what we want and when. We can and will be successful...but the price is total menu control. So usually in order to secure a baker we are given sweat equity. And I can tell you that a pink cake with blue frosting hit that baker the wrong way....and he absolutely doesn't care one bit.

Trying to imagine how many cakes you have to make while profiting pennies and make 6 figures.

 

[Chillicothe]

Even if it's Thanksgiving, a bakery is not required to bake pumpkin pies no matter how foolish or prejudiced that decision might be.
----------

Ummm, JDB, I kinda sorta think you may be missing the point.

So, let's assume the baker ain't foolish and ain't prejudiced as you suggest above. Rather, he's a savvy market-aware baked goods entrepreneur. And he decides it is smart business to bake pumpkin pies for Thanksgiving. And he does so. And he makes 'em available for sale to the public.

However......he can't REFUSE to sell one to a gay guy....simply because he is gay.
He can't REFUSE to sell one to the Muslim.....simply because he's Muslim.
So to, ---to the Jewish guy, or the Russian guy, or the guy in a wheelchair.
I don't wanna overdrive that nail, as I'm sure you see the point.

If he sells to the public he's gotta sell to all of the public who are able and willing to pay.
He doesn't get to choose only Christianist, only Caucasians, only the able-bodied, only the Heterosexual.

(From --- A TED Talk by Captain Obvious)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. The arguments on this thread from our bigoted friends are entertaining but are getting more and more bizarre.

2. It isn't possible to deal with that level of stupid.

----------------------------
Referencing the two quotes above: They are deadsolidtrue-proof that two things can be correct at the same time.

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"....because Chik filet is perceived as "anti-homosexual" they are always swamped with customers seeking chicken sandwiches."

Ummm, noper. Again, you may be missing a larger truth here, JDB.
People are seeking Chik-Filet chicken sandwiches ....NOT because of some perceived hissyfit over gay issues.

Noper, it is much much simpler, much more primal than that.
To wit: It's because they make a damn good chicken sandwich at a fair price.

Many successful food entrepreneurs long ago recognized that dynamic has traction in the marketplace. Captain Obvious: Marketing 101.

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[miketx]

So.
Would you force a Muslim baker to make a big penis cake for a Gay wedding?

In that case he'd want his cake and eat it too!

 

[JohnDB]

Trying to imagine how many cakes you have to make while profiting pennies and make 6 figures.

Exactly....
When you have a complete brigade of several shifts and crews things change a bit...but essentially it's the same thing.
If the head baker says "no" it means that cake is unavailable.

If I refuse to make animal shaped cakes....guess what?

There is no baker that has some sort of illusion that he is going to get rich by baking. And that's why a good baker can't be bought for the price of a cake if he objects.

Each cake is an extention of the baker himself. And his identity is not necessarily for sale. Mine never was. My partner regularly pulled his hair out over what I would and wouldn't do. But I was the food pump that was making him successful. The products I made were 80% of sales but only burned 25% of the labor.
And that is the golden rule of business...."he who makes the gold makes the rules"

Bakers aren't money hungry...they can't be bought. They are driven by their own desires outside of money. Not normal, but understandable. However some people are so sold out to money grabbing that it's beyond their understanding....

 

[JohnDB]

Ummm, JDB, I kinda sorta think you may be missing the point.

So, let's assume the baker ain't foolish and ain't prejudiced as you suggest above. Rather, he's a savvy market-aware baked goods entrepreneur. And he decides it is smart business to bake pumpkin pies for Thanksgiving. And he does so. And he makes 'em available for sale to the public.

However......he can't REFUSE to sell one to a gay guy....simply because he is gay.
He can't REFUSE to sell one to the Muslim.....simply because he's Muslim.
So to, ---to the Jewish guy, or the Russian guy, or the guy in a wheelchair.
I don't wanna overdrive that nail, as I'm sure you see the point.

If he sells to the public he's gotta sell to all of the public who are able and willing to pay.
He doesn't get to choose only Christianist, only Caucasians, only the able-bodied, only the Heterosexual.

(From --- A TED Talk by Captain Obvious)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------
Referencing the two quotes above: They are deadsolidtrue-proof that two things can be correct at the same time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Ummm, noper. Again, you may be missing a larger truth here, JDB.
People are seeking Chik-Filet chicken sandwiches ....NOT because of some perceived hissyfit over gay issues.

Noper, it is much much simpler, much more primal than that.
To wit: It's because they make a damn good chicken sandwich at a fair price.

Many successful food entrepreneurs long ago recognized that dynamic has traction in the marketplace. Captain Obvious: Marketing 101.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

But you are missing a key point here....and it is very much key and crucial.

It's a custom cake shop....a place that makes custom cakes. I'm sure they had some generic cakes for sale. (Most all do) But custom cakes are just that....custom. Completely at the whim of the head baker.

Printing companies regularly refuse to print pornography....and been allowed to refuse since the creation of playboy magazine.

Bakeries wish for that exact same right. To refuse customers based on their own personal preferences.

 

[pknopp]

Exactly....
When you have a complete brigade of several shifts and crews things change a bit...but essentially it's the same thing.
If the head baker says "no" it means that cake is unavailable.

If I refuse to make animal shaped cakes....guess what?

There is no baker that has some sort of illusion that he is going to get rich by baking. And that's why a good baker can't be bought for the price of a cake if he objects.

Each cake is an extention of the baker himself. And his identity is not necessarily for sale. Mine never was. My partner regularly pulled his hair out over what I would and wouldn't do. But I was the food pump that was making him successful. The products I made were 80% of sales but only burned 25% of the labor.
And that is the golden rule of business...."he who makes the gold makes the rules"

Bakers aren't money hungry...they can't be bought. They are driven by their own desires outside of money. Not normal, but understandable. However some people are so sold out to money grabbing that it's beyond their understanding....

There is no reason to believe this man does not make cakes.

 

[Grumblenuts]

you cannot have equal application of the law if one groups gets more protection than a different group.

Uh, read what you supposedly just disagreed with me about again:

The result of a law, therefore, is relevant so long as there is discrimination in its application.

"The result of" what sort of "a law"?
"Public access" or anti-discrimination law.
No discrimination occurring? No.
Then no need for such a law.
Discrimination happening? Yes.
Then a law dealing with it is appropriate ("relevant").

I quoted and paraphrased directly from an unquestionably authoritative source discussing the very clause of the 14th Amendment of which you supposedly speak. You think you "Understand the Law" better than them? Really? You're that full of yourself?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

But you are missing a key point here....and it is very much key and crucial.

It's a custom cake shop....a place that makes custom cakes. I'm sure they had some generic cakes for sale. (Most all do) But custom cakes are just that....custom. Completely at the whim of the head baker.

Printing companies regularly refuse to print pornography....and been allowed to refuse since the creation of playboy magazine.

Bakeries wish for that exact same right. To refuse customers based on their own personal preferences.

But he agreed to bake the cake.

 

[JohnDB]

There is no reason to believe this man does not make cakes.

Is he a conscript of the state of Colorado?

They can throw him in jail for contempt of court....but he still won't bake that cake.

 

[pknopp]

Is he a conscript of the state of Colorado?

They can throw him in jail for contempt of court....but he still won't bake that cake.

All which has nothing to do with what I am questioning. I never called for anyone to put him in jail so.............

 

[JohnDB]

But he agreed to bake the cake.

Oh I'm sure that he made it clear that he wasn't going to but the customer kept insisting and throwing a fit in his shop.
(Bad move IMHO)

And he still didn't bake that cake.

 

[HeyNorm]

Ummm, JDB, I kinda sorta think you may be missing the point.

So, let's assume the baker ain't foolish and ain't prejudiced as you suggest above. Rather, he's a savvy market-aware baked goods entrepreneur. And he decides it is smart business to bake pumpkin pies for Thanksgiving. And he does so. And he makes 'em available for sale to the public.

However......he can't REFUSE to sell one to a gay guy....simply because he is gay.
He can't REFUSE to sell one to the Muslim.....simply because he's Muslim.
So to, ---to the Jewish guy, or the Russian guy, or the guy in a wheelchair.
I don't wanna overdrive that nail, as I'm sure you see the point.

If he sells to the public he's gotta sell to all of the public who are able and willing to pay.
He doesn't get to choose only Christianist, only Caucasians, only the able-bodied, only the Heterosexual.

(From --- A TED Talk by Captain Obvious)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------------------------
Referencing the two quotes above: They are deadsolidtrue-proof that two things can be correct at the same time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Ummm, noper. Again, you may be missing a larger truth here, JDB.
People are seeking Chik-Filet chicken sandwiches ....NOT because of some perceived hissyfit over gay issues.

Noper, it is much much simpler, much more primal than that.
To wit: It's because they make a damn good chicken sandwich at a fair price.

Many successful food entrepreneurs long ago recognized that dynamic has traction in the marketplace. Captain Obvious: Marketing 101.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

After all that drivel, the point remains, the baker doesn’t offer the desired product, just like chic fillet doesn’t offer Big Macs.

Move on already, you annoy me kid.

 

[Chillicothe]

Move on already,

So, good poster Norm.....in the pics of those two very different cakes posted earlier to this thread (post #494)---- well, can you definitely articulate to the forum how you are so readily able to tell which of them is the 'Transition Cake' unavailable to anybody but most especially to gay folks,......and which one is the "Regular Cake" that is available to all folks, but not gays?

Saddle up, Skippy.

 

[HeyNorm]

So, good poster Norm.....in the pics of those two very different cakes posted earlier to this thread (post #494)---- well, can you definitely articulate to the forum how you are so readily able to tell which of them is the 'Transition Cake' unavailable to anybody but most especially to gay folks,......and which one is the "Regular Cake" that is available to all folks, but not gays?

Saddle up, Skippy.

Not the point:

Would he make a trans cake for a black: No

Would he make a trans cake for a white: no

Would he make a trans cake for a straight: no

Would he make a trans cake for a gay: no

Why? He doesn’t offer the product.

Ever ridden a horse? Saddle or not? Or do you even know the difference between a Horse and a Goldfish?

 

[HeyNorm]

So, good poster Norm.....in the pics of those two very different cakes posted earlier to this thread (post #494)---- well, can you definitely articulate to the forum how you are so readily able to tell which of them is the 'Transition Cake' unavailable to anybody but most especially to gay folks,......and which one is the "Regular Cake" that is available to all folks, but not gays?

Saddle up, Skippy.

Oh, and the gays remark? Are trans people gay? I was not aware of that.

But as far as gay wedding cakes go, the United States Supreme Court made SAME SEX marriage legal regardless of the sexuality of the couple.

So as long as the baker refuses to make same sex wedding cakes for both heterosexual and homosexual same sex couples……..

He discriminated against no one, and………

He simply does not offer the service.

Now, if a gay couple comes in, one male, the other female, and he refuses, which he wouldn’t, then you got something lil guy. Until then, you got nada.

Just more hate from the regressive left.

 

[miketx]

Are trans people gay? I was not aware of that.

They are aware, and yes, you are.

 

[HeyNorm]

They are aware, and yes, you are.

I’m gay? The ladies are gonna get a kick out of this one.

Hey ladies, take a look at this!!

 

[miketx]

I’m gay? The ladies are gonna get a kick out of this one.

Hey ladies, take a look at this!!

Perhaps a remedial reading class, then? You said you weren't aware and i said you were aware.

 

[HeyNorm]

Perhaps a remedial reading class, then? You said you weren't aware and i said you were aware.

Whew, cuz I was not wanting to deal with all the incredibly disappointed girls ( over 21 of course ).

 

[miketx]

Whew, cuz I was not wanting to deal with all the incredibly disappointed girls ( over 21 of course ).

They look 15 to me.