Zone1 Christianity and our founding fathers

[my2¢]

One of the items that I've disagreed with over the years on this board has been the issue relating to our founding fathers and Christianity. For a while now I've not bought into the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. Besides a select few sermons I catch each week, I also enjoy listening to the weekly podcast, 5 Minutes in Church History. Got around to yesterday's edition and in it I believe is reliable picture of Christianity during the establishment of country, especially in the period during the writing of the Constitution.

The Second Great Awakening Overlook​

An excerpt:

Well, if we look at the 1790s, we see that it was an age of reason, as the book title has it, by Thomas Payne. And at the very beginnings of this young American republic, there was a strong sense of secularism. Historians have documented that church attendance in the decade of the 1790s in America was in the single digits, percentage-wise.

It was not only an age of secularism, it was also an age of deism. These old congregational churches in New England were quickly careening into what was called unitarian universalism, and neither one of those are good doctrines, and put them together, it’s really bad.

 

[WinterBorn]

The founding fathers were mostly Christians. But they did not found a Christian Nation. They made sure of that.

 

[Calypso Jones]

God's name is clearly mentioned in our founding documents. We were founded on the basis of religious freedom. You don't have to like it...but most people would appreciate y'all not running yo moufs on what you know NOTHING about. or you clearly want to misinform.

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible - WallBuilders

For decades accusations against the Founding Fathers have abounded. One of the common criticisms is that the Founding Fathers were a collective group of atheists...

wallbuilders.com

 

[The Irish Ram]

The article brought to mind this phenomenon that happened recently:

The 'Asbury Revival' comes to a close

And when that happened, this happened:

Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there among them."

All of our colleges would benefit from a little of this...

 

[The Irish Ram]

Here is a few minutes of the Asbury Revival.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

One of the items that I've disagreed with over the years on this board has been the issue relating to our founding fathers and Christianity. For a while now I've not bought into the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. Besides a select few sermons I catch each week, I also enjoy listening to the weekly podcast, 5 Minutes in Church History. Got around to yesterday's edition and in it I believe is reliable picture of Christianity during the establishment of country, especially in the period during the writing of the Constitution.

The Second Great Awakening Overlook​

An excerpt:

Well, if we look at the 1790s, we see that it was an age of reason, as the book title has it, by Thomas Payne. And at the very beginnings of this young American republic, there was a strong sense of secularism. Historians have documented that church attendance in the decade of the 1790s in America was in the single digits, percentage-wise.

It was not only an age of secularism, it was also an age of deism. These old congregational churches in New England were quickly careening into what was called unitarian universalism, and neither one of those are good doctrines, and put them together, it’s really bad.

Screw Tom Paine. But I'll take a look at your Tom Payne.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

These old congregational churches in New England were quickly careening into what was called unitarian universalism...

wrong

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

One of the items that I've disagreed with over the years on this board has been the issue relating to our founding fathers and Christianity. For a while now I've not bought into the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. Besides a select few sermons I catch each week, I also enjoy listening to the weekly podcast, 5 Minutes in Church History. Got around to yesterday's edition and in it I believe is reliable picture of Christianity during the establishment of country, especially in the period during the writing of the Constitution.

The Second Great Awakening Overlook​

An excerpt:

Well, if we look at the 1790s, we see that it was an age of reason, as the book title has it, by Thomas Payne. And at the very beginnings of this young American republic, there was a strong sense of secularism. Historians have documented that church attendance in the decade of the 1790s in America was in the single digits, percentage-wise.

It was not only an age of secularism, it was also an age of deism. These old congregational churches in New England were quickly careening into what was called unitarian universalism, and neither one of those are good doctrines, and put them together, it’s really bad.

Ligonier Ministries - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In September 2015, R. C. Sproul Jr., the son of Ligonier founder R. C. Sproul, was suspended from the organization until July 1, 2016 due to his visiting the Ashley Madison website.[4] In December 2016, Sproul Jr. resigned from Ligonier Ministries and Reformation Bible College "for personal reasons."[5] It was reported the following week that the reason for his resignation was that he had recently been arrested for drunk driving with a minor passenger in his vehicle.

 

[JohnDB]

You somehow forgot about this famous line....
The founding fathers did NOT agree all the time.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

God's name is clearly mentioned in our founding documents. We were founded on the basis of religious freedom. You don't have to like it...but most people would appreciate y'all not running yo moufs on what you know NOTHING about. or you clearly want to misinform.

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible - WallBuilders

For decades accusations against the Founding Fathers have abounded. One of the common criticisms is that the Founding Fathers were a collective group of atheists...

wallbuilders.com

You need to follow your advice. You are truly a mindlessly chattering chipmonk who cannot wrap his head around that we are a nation of Christians with a mindfulness in creating a secular nation. Americans are rightly fearful of priestcraft and religion being mixed.

 

[Grumblenuts]

God's name is clearly mentioned in our founding documents.

Sue?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The U.S. Constitution, which outlines the framework of the U.S. government, does not explicitly mention God, Jesus Christ, or Christianity 1. However, the Declaration of Independence, which was adopted on July 4, 1776, mentions God four times and states that our rights come from the Creator 23. The Founding Fathers appealed to God as a form of higher authority for their freedoms and inalienable rights 4. It is important to note that the role of religion in the United States is still a topic of debate and discussion 2.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians by Steven Morris (March 1996) - Freedom From Religion Foundation

The Christian Right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States, as part of their campaign to force their religion on others who ask merely...

ffrf.org

Debunking the Christian nation myth - Andrew Seidel - Freedom From Religion Foundation

By Andrew Seidel Andrew Seidel, FFRF staff attorney, gave this speech accompanied by PowerPoint (edited here for print) in October at FFRF’s 35...

ffrf.org

 

[ding]

The Founding Fathers Were Not Christians by Steven Morris (March 1996) - Freedom From Religion Foundation

The Christian Right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States, as part of their campaign to force their religion on others who ask merely...

ffrf.org

Debunking the Christian nation myth - Andrew Seidel - Freedom From Religion Foundation

By Andrew Seidel Andrew Seidel, FFRF staff attorney, gave this speech accompanied by PowerPoint (edited here for print) in October at FFRF’s 35...

ffrf.org

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country. Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society. In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth. In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Ding, Tocqueville is talking about a nation generally of Christians, not a Christian nation.

Our Constitution is overwhelmingly secular.

If the Fathers had realized how many Catholics would emigrate to the US, they would have banned their entry.

The Fathers thought the Baptists and proto-evangelicals to be weird.

They went crazy with the Mormons when it appeated in 1830.

We are secular government that protects the right to believe but not force religion on its citizens.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

The US government was founded about Enlightenment values, not Christian values.

 

[Cougarbear]

One of the items that I've disagreed with over the years on this board has been the issue relating to our founding fathers and Christianity. For a while now I've not bought into the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. Besides a select few sermons I catch each week, I also enjoy listening to the weekly podcast, 5 Minutes in Church History. Got around to yesterday's edition and in it I believe is reliable picture of Christianity during the establishment of country, especially in the period during the writing of the Constitution.

The Second Great Awakening Overlook​

An excerpt:

Well, if we look at the 1790s, we see that it was an age of reason, as the book title has it, by Thomas Payne. And at the very beginnings of this young American republic, there was a strong sense of secularism. Historians have documented that church attendance in the decade of the 1790s in America was in the single digits, percentage-wise.

It was not only an age of secularism, it was also an age of deism. These old congregational churches in New England were quickly careening into what was called unitarian universalism, and neither one of those are good doctrines, and put them together, it’s really bad.

Why was there a decline in church attendance during the early 1700s?
In many ways, religion was becoming more formal and less personal during this time, which led to lower church attendance. Christians were feeling complacent with their methods of worship, and some were disillusioned with how wealth and rationalism were dominating culture. We find this happening today as well. But, even more so as more people are falling from grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and denying the existence of God. Many because they blame God for everything wrong in their lives and the world. Just before the pandemic, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, led by a prophet of God, knew problems were coming and established a more home centered church where more learning would go on in the home as well at Church. When churches were shut down. members were able to still bless and pass the sacraments to those in their homes and the homes they ministered to. We will most likely see more of this as evil spreads in America and over the world.
But, none of this suggests that America was not founded on Judeo-Christian principals and a Christian nation. The laws that we have had in our nation center around good and evil. The Christian concept of good and evil. While Church attendance was low, didn't mean that the people were secular and atheist. Not even close.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Ding, Tocqueville is talking about a nation generally of Christians, not a Christian nation.

The US government was founded about Enlightenment values, not Christian values.

America's Christian Heritage 240306 {post•120} ding Mar’24 Sachyz00120:
"...A later Virginian, John Randolph Tucker, outstanding authority on constitutional rights, nicely emphasized how our Founding Fathers understood that our natural rights and liberties come from God. dvng 240306 Sachyz00120

Christianity and our founding fathers 240306 {post•18}​

De Tocqueville and John R Tucker were a bit late to the founding party to be credible witnesses on the degree to which the Cross of Christ’s supernatural belief system from one particularly organized religion played in the revolt against the divine anointed King of that particular oppressive religion on earth; - white - English - Protestant - Christianity.

The Rational Theists who designed the USofA did not accept revealed religion so they could not compete with the ‘marketing’ and promise of eternal bliss and avoidance of eternal damnation in hell under the revolutionary brand name of Rational Religion or Enlightenment, so the Cross of Christ Supernaturalism prevailed by the time De Tocqueville roamed the countryside visiting revealed religion churches.

I wonder why Saint Ding keeps bringing references to God when the founding documents are not tied to any revealed religion from God in any meaningful way.

nfbw 240306 caoff00018

 

[Billo_Really]

One of the items that I've disagreed with over the years on this board has been the issue relating to our founding fathers and Christianity. For a while now I've not bought into the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. Besides a select few sermons I catch each week, I also enjoy listening to the weekly podcast, 5 Minutes in Church History. Got around to yesterday's edition and in it I believe is reliable picture of Christianity during the establishment of country, especially in the period during the writing of the Constitution.

The Second Great Awakening Overlook​

An excerpt:

Well, if we look at the 1790s, we see that it was an age of reason, as the book title has it, by Thomas Payne. And at the very beginnings of this young American republic, there was a strong sense of secularism. Historians have documented that church attendance in the decade of the 1790s in America was in the single digits, percentage-wise.

It was not only an age of secularism, it was also an age of deism. These old congregational churches in New England were quickly careening into what was called unitarian universalism, and neither one of those are good doctrines, and put them together, it’s really bad.

The separation of church and state is one of our core values. That's one of the reasons that make this country great.

Just look around the world at all the fucked up theocracy's; Iran, Israel, etc. Once you mix religion and government, your country is fucked!

 

[Cougarbear]

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America
Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country. Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief. I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society. In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth. In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

We are endowed with natural rights by our creator (God). Liberty and freedom to choose good and evil. That includes freedom of religion and speech.