Zone1 Christianity and our founding fathers

[ding]

that's his opinison but so what

The so what is the the Founding Fathers to a man believed natural law and rights come from God regardless of how one perceives that God. Which is why they made sure there could be no national religion mandated by the federal government and limited the federal government from interfering with the practice of each person’s God given right to worship God as they see fit.

 

[Grumblenuts]

It sees only what it wishes to believe despite the gigantic glasses.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

The so what is the the Founding Fathers to a man believed natural law and rights come from God regardless of how one perceives that God. Which is why they made sure there could be no national religion mandated by the federal government and limited the federal government from interfering with the practice of each person’s God given right to worship God as they see fit.

Not Ethan Allan, or Benjamin Franklin, for starters. And those who did have a theistic compass drove that from the God the Father not a RC or evangelistic reliance on Christ.

Did you know George Washington would walk in the parish garden during each and every communion service?

Did you know Ethan Allan was an atheist?

Washington and Jefferson were far more deists than Christians, and Monroe was a weak Christian.

The Adamas, father and son, were universalists.

You know all this, you know that Jesus Christ is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution.

Why do you lie

 

[my2¢]

My main point here is in talking about religion and our founding fathers one can't ignore the timeframe they were living in. The were experiencing the influence of Europe's Age of Enlightenment in which all in the past was being questioned. It was a time when the fundamental view of government was evolving. Superstition and religion were taking a back seat to science.

It was also a time when human rights were being advocated. During the time of the American Constitution at a national level it was problematic. But it did come about within the section of America as our nation's leaders set policies for opening the Northwest Territory, the land that later became the states of Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin. In this land slavery was forbidden. As was any state religion. The policy also mandated that a section of each township was to be set aside to support public education.

Thomas Jefferson's Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom declared, "that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry."

 

[AMart]

They were all Christian except for a few deist types.

​

Religious Affiliation # of signers % of signers Episcopalian/Anglican 32​ 57.1%​ Congregationalist 13​ 23.2%​ Presbyterian 12​ 21.4%​ Quaker 2​ 3.6%​ Unitarian or Universalist 2​ 3.6%​ Catholic 1​ 1.8%​ TOTAL 56​ 100%​

Name of Signer State Religious Affiliation Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian George Walton Georgia Episcopalian John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian George Read Delaware Episcopalian Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian William Paca Maryland Episcopalian Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist) Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist) Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian William Floyd New York Presbyterian Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Amart, the Founders were mostly Enlightment Age weak Christians. They were not neo-evangelical or liturgically committed tradtional Christians.

That is why we have secular constitutions, every last one.

 

[BS Filter]

Amart, the Founders were mostly Enlightment Age weak Christians. They were not neo-evangelical or liturgically committed tradtional Christians.

That is why we have secular constitutions, every last one.

Agree, which pretty much destroys the argument that Christians want a theocracy. They've had over 250 years to do it and haven't attempted it once.

 

[AMart]

Amart, the Founders were mostly Enlightment Age weak Christians. They were not neo-evangelical or liturgically committed tradtional Christians.

That is why we have secular constitutions, every last one.

They didn't want a Church of the USA like the Church of England. That's all. Surely you have detailed research backing up your claim there lil atheist.

 

[luiza]

The founding fathers were mostly Christians. But they did not found a Christian Nation. They made sure of that.

Unusual way to spell Freemasons .

 

[Frankenstein]

The founding fathers were mostly Christians. But they did not found a Christian Nation. They made sure of that.

They certainly didn't forbid it, like most who are not believers believe.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

They didn't want a Church of the USA like the Church of England. That's all. Surely you have detailed research backing up your claim there lil atheist.

It is everything they did not want a state established church, period. Those that had them had them thrown out by 1820.

Ask yourself why? Because they did not want you winkies to tell them how to live their lives by your church standers. Winky, we don't want you doing that 200 years.

 

[my2¢]

They were all Christian except for a few deist types.

Notice how New England is dominated by one religion while the South, another. Qualification for office at the time commonly required one to be of a certain denomination. The elimination of such barriers untaken by our founding fathers was a major part of their secularization of the government.

 

[AMart]

It is everything they did not want a state established church, period. Those that had them had them thrown out by 1820.

Ask yourself why? Because they did not want you winkies to tell them how to live their lives by your church standers. Winky, we don't want you doing that 200 years.

Great research you provided.

 

[ding]

Not Ethan Allan, or Benjamin Franklin, for starters.

Incorrect.

https://muse.jhu.edu/pub/266/oa_monograph/chapter/3009802

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvc16kr4#:~:text=%C2%B9%20Franklin%20appealed%20to%20natural,Franklin%20quotes%20the%20%E2%80%9Cgreat%20Mr.

 

[ding]

Unusual way to spell Freemasons .

Freemasons could not be atheists.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Incorrect.

Ethan Allen, a prominent figure during the American Revolution, had religious views that diverged from traditional orthodox Christianity. Let’s explore his beliefs:

1. Deism and Reason:
   • Like many of the Founding Fathers, Ethan Allen was influenced by the Enlightenment and embraced deistic ideas.
   • Deism emphasized reason in discerning religious truth and rejected certain Christian doctrines, including the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures and miracles.
   • Deists did not believe that God directly intervened in human affairs.
   • Allen’s work, “Reason, the Only Oracle of Man” (published in 1784), reflected these deistic views and openly challenged orthodox Christianity12.
2. Progressive Christian Deism:
   • Allen might be best described as a Progressive Christian Deist.
   • He believed that reason should play a central role in religious matters, similar to other notable figures like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin3.
3. Critique of Christianity:
   • Allen was a freethinker and a critic of traditional religions, including Christianity.
   • In his writings, he denied the validity of orthodox Christian beliefs4.

In summary, while Ethan Allen was not a conventional Christian, he was influenced by Enlightenment ideas and held views that diverged from orthodox Christianity. His legacy remains intertwined with the intellectual and religious landscape of America’s founding era.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Benjamin Franklin, a multifaceted figure in American history, underwent an intriguing evolution in his religious beliefs. Let’s delve into his spiritual journey:

1. Early Background:
   • Born into a family of devout Puritans and raised in the Protestant tradition, Franklin was baptized in the Old South Church of Boston.
   • However, as he matured, he distanced himself from orthodox Christianity and embraced a more rationalistic and deistic perspective1.
2. Deism and Rationalism:
   • Franklin classified himself as a deist. Deism is a belief in God based on reason and observation, rather than revelation or faith.
   • Deists acknowledge a supreme being who created the universe but does not directly intervene in human affairs.
   • Franklin’s work, “Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion” (published in 1728), expressed his views. He believed in one God who endowed humans with reason to discover natural laws.
   • Regarding Jesus Christ’s divinity, he wrote to Ezra Stiles in 1790: “I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is like to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have some doubts as to his Divinity” 1.
3. Sunday Reflections:
   • Franklin did not find Sunday church services fulfilling. He considered the sermons lacking substance and preferred using Sundays for his own studies.
   • In fact, he humorously remarked that lighthouses were more helpful than churches!
   • Despite this, he still held Christian beliefs and introduced a daily prayer during the 1787 Constitutional Convention. He believed in Providence, the idea that God oversees and directs the universe1.
4. Legacy of Tolerance:
   • Franklin championed religious tolerance and freedom.
   • His journey from Puritan upbringing to deistic rationalism reflects the intellectual dynamism of America’s founding era2.

In summary, Benjamin Franklin’s religious path was marked by reason, curiosity, and a quest for understanding beyond conventional dogmas.

 

[ding]

Ethan Allen, a prominent figure during the American Revolution, had religious views that diverged from traditional orthodox Christianity. Let’s explore his beliefs:

1. Deism and Reason:
   • Like many of the Founding Fathers, Ethan Allen was influenced by the Enlightenment and embraced deistic ideas.
   • Deism emphasized reason in discerning religious truth and rejected certain Christian doctrines, including the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures and miracles.
   • Deists did not believe that God directly intervened in human affairs.
   • Allen’s work, “Reason, the Only Oracle of Man” (published in 1784), reflected these deistic views and openly challenged orthodox Christianity12.
2. Progressive Christian Deism:
   • Allen might be best described as a Progressive Christian Deist.
   • He believed that reason should play a central role in religious matters, similar to other notable figures like Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin3.
3. Critique of Christianity:
   • Allen was a freethinker and a critic of traditional religions, including Christianity.
   • In his writings, he denied the validity of orthodox Christian beliefs4.

In summary, while Ethan Allen was not a conventional Christian, he was influenced by Enlightenment ideas and held views that diverged from orthodox Christianity. His legacy remains intertwined with the intellectual and religious landscape of America’s founding era.

And embraced natural law like every other founding father.

 

[ding]

Benjamin Franklin, a multifaceted figure in American history, underwent an intriguing evolution in his religious beliefs. Let’s delve into his spiritual journey:

1. Early Background:
   • Born into a family of devout Puritans and raised in the Protestant tradition, Franklin was baptized in the Old South Church of Boston.
   • However, as he matured, he distanced himself from orthodox Christianity and embraced a more rationalistic and deistic perspective1.
2. Deism and Rationalism:
   • Franklin classified himself as a deist. Deism is a belief in God based on reason and observation, rather than revelation or faith.
   • Deists acknowledge a supreme being who created the universe but does not directly intervene in human affairs.
   • Franklin’s work, “Articles of Belief and Acts of Religion” (published in 1728), expressed his views. He believed in one God who endowed humans with reason to discover natural laws.
   • Regarding Jesus Christ’s divinity, he wrote to Ezra Stiles in 1790: “I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is like to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have some doubts as to his Divinity” 1.
3. Sunday Reflections:
   • Franklin did not find Sunday church services fulfilling. He considered the sermons lacking substance and preferred using Sundays for his own studies.
   • In fact, he humorously remarked that lighthouses were more helpful than churches!
   • Despite this, he still held Christian beliefs and introduced a daily prayer during the 1787 Constitutional Convention. He believed in Providence, the idea that God oversees and directs the universe1.
4. Legacy of Tolerance:
   • Franklin championed religious tolerance and freedom.
   • His journey from Puritan upbringing to deistic rationalism reflects the intellectual dynamism of America’s founding era2.

In summary, Benjamin Franklin’s religious path was marked by reason, curiosity, and a quest for understanding beyond conventional dogmas.

And embraced natural law like every other founding father.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

... but did not lead him to Christianity.

You keep forgetting this part, Ding.