Christian baker not backing down after Gov't punishes him for refusing to make gay wedding cake

[Nosmo King]

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

check which argument you are replying to.

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

 

[martybegan]

Then those laws would be fought and REPEALED or else a Kosher or halal baker/restaurant would not get such a business license. See how easy that is?

You don't like a PA law, REPEAL IT....don't get a business license and think you can just ignore the laws/regs you pretend are against your "religion".

The big difference between kosher and haall restaurants is the menu. Kosher and halaal dishes are served. In the bakeries, wedding cakes are on the menu.

you really are retarded, or you are just not getting it. Halal and kosher BUTCHERING practices, not the food itself.

Can a Dept of health ban kosher or halal slaughter or not? what about a building department?

Show me a kosher pork chop.

Again, not the argument. Halal and Kosher slaughter are very specific procedures on allowed animals. Can a Department of Health or a Department of Buildings ban the use of said procedures?

Can you force a Halal butcher to follow modern butchering practices on a goat?

Departments of Health or Building Codes may do so only if there is an infraction of existing codes.

Kosher butchers perform ritual procedures assuring their products are, in fact, kosher.

A baker bakes wedding cakes as part of their business. A same sex couple is not asking for a product that exceeds the normal menu of services provided. A same sex wedding cake looks, incredibly, just like any other wedding cake. Or, to put it another way, a same sex wedding cake is indistinguishable from any other wedding cake. What's the problem?

Again, can the government ban Kosher or halal slaughter or not?

You keep not answering the question.

 

[martybegan]

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

check which argument you are replying to.

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

When you applaud government force to adjudicate butt hurt remedies, you are a fascist.

And when you don't want to answer questions put to you, but instead go back to the same tired explanation you have repeated ad nauseum, you are an idiot.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The government is imposing on all citizens the government's concept of sin and demanding that all citizens accept the government's definition as gospel.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The big difference between kosher and haall restaurants is the menu. Kosher and halaal dishes are served. In the bakeries, wedding cakes are on the menu.

you really are retarded, or you are just not getting it. Halal and kosher BUTCHERING practices, not the food itself.

Can a Dept of health ban kosher or halal slaughter or not? what about a building department?

Show me a kosher pork chop.

Again, not the argument. Halal and Kosher slaughter are very specific procedures on allowed animals. Can a Department of Health or a Department of Buildings ban the use of said procedures?

Can you force a Halal butcher to follow modern butchering practices on a goat?

Departments of Health or Building Codes may do so only if there is an infraction of existing codes.

Kosher butchers perform ritual procedures assuring their products are, in fact, kosher.

A baker bakes wedding cakes as part of their business. A same sex couple is not asking for a product that exceeds the normal menu of services provided. A same sex wedding cake looks, incredibly, just like any other wedding cake. Or, to put it another way, a same sex wedding cake is indistinguishable from any other wedding cake. What's the problem?

Again, can the government ban Kosher or halal slaughter or not?

You keep not answering the question.

Your question should be: should the government regulate or punish the killing of animals. Of course they can, and I believe they should. Do you support pouching? Hunting deer at night with a light? Taking as many fish as possible, or would you abide by size and limit rules?

The crazy right wing is simple, as in simple minded, characterized by a lack of keen mental discernment and pragmatic judgments. They see a world of black and white, not colorful with different shades and hues.

 

[Nosmo King]

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

check which argument you are replying to.

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

When you applaud government force to adjudicate butt hurt remedies, you are a fascist.

And when you don't want to answer questions put to you, but instead go back to the same tired explanation you have repeated ad nauseum, you are an idiot.

when you dismiss discrimination as 'butt hurt', you show that you really don't get it. And my argument is consistent. I don't have to equivocate something like guns to same sex marriage. No slender reed of an argument for me! I know I'm correct because I'm not ouit to erode rights but to protect them.

 

[martybegan]

you really are retarded, or you are just not getting it. Halal and kosher BUTCHERING practices, not the food itself.

Can a Dept of health ban kosher or halal slaughter or not? what about a building department?

Show me a kosher pork chop.

Again, not the argument. Halal and Kosher slaughter are very specific procedures on allowed animals. Can a Department of Health or a Department of Buildings ban the use of said procedures?

Can you force a Halal butcher to follow modern butchering practices on a goat?

Departments of Health or Building Codes may do so only if there is an infraction of existing codes.

Kosher butchers perform ritual procedures assuring their products are, in fact, kosher.

A baker bakes wedding cakes as part of their business. A same sex couple is not asking for a product that exceeds the normal menu of services provided. A same sex wedding cake looks, incredibly, just like any other wedding cake. Or, to put it another way, a same sex wedding cake is indistinguishable from any other wedding cake. What's the problem?

Again, can the government ban Kosher or halal slaughter or not?

You keep not answering the question.

Your question should be, should the government regulate or punish the killing of animals. Of course they can, and I believe they should. Do you support pouching? Hunting deer at night with a light? Taking as many fish as possible, or would you abide by size and limit rules?

The crazy right wing is simple, as in simple minded, characterized by a lack of keen mental discernment and pragmatic judgments.

How many of the things you listed are part of an established religious tradition?

The progressive statist left believes that anything they don't like is "evil" and must be banned, and the people wanting to do such things must be ruined and castigated.

Of course a desk jockey hack-**** such as yourself supports things like that, because you always assume the government will bully the people you don't like.

 

[Nosmo King]

The government is imposing on all citizens the government's concept of sin and demanding that all citizens accept the government's definition as gospel.

Does that justify the narrow interpretation of some 'Christians' to impose their moral template on society?

 

[martybegan]

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

check which argument you are replying to.

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

When you applaud government force to adjudicate butt hurt remedies, you are a fascist.

And when you don't want to answer questions put to you, but instead go back to the same tired explanation you have repeated ad nauseum, you are an idiot.

when you dismiss discrimination as 'butt hurt', you show that you really don't get it. And my argument is consistent. I don't have to equivocate something like guns to same sex marriage. No slender reed of an argument for me! I know I'm correct because I'm not ouit to erode rights but to protect them.

When you equate having to spend 1/2 an hour with getting someone else to make your cake with a person having to either go against their morals or go out of business and be fined a ridiculous amount, that shows you are an oppressive asshole, who only can see things from their own viewpoint.

And you are definitely out to erode someone's rights, but because you hate religious people you don't give a rats ass about it. Stop trying to pretend you are the "nice person" in all of this.

 

[bodecea]

How many years has it been since this issue started? Imagine if all those whining about PA laws had actually gotten off their duffs back then and worked to get such laws repealed? They'd be close to having accomplished that by now.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Such discrimination brings unnecessary humiliation and grief. It brings a status of second class citizenship. These things are legitimately perceived as hateful. What else could it be?

And these 'Christians' use that faith to serve a purpose it was never intended to serve. And the law was never intended to serve as cover for such behavior.

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

Marty, you seem to be losing it. Muslim extremists stone homosexuals to death, Christian extremists discriminate against them; the distinction of manner matters not - both are vile.

You also seem to be obsessed with guns, for the record, guns kill people. The meme that people kill people, guns don't is childish: For want of a gun the victim was saved makes much more sense.

There is a huge difference between wanting to stone homosexuals and not wanting to make their wedding cake. that you have to equivocate them shows the shallowness of your position.

It was a comparison, and again an apt one.

And your penchant for disarming law abiding people in the hopes law breaking ones will stay disarmed is comical and really really stupid.

You are an unabashed damn liar. I have stated unequivocally that I support the right of sober, sane and honest citizens the right to own, possess or have in their custody and control a firearm. Stating otherwise is a damn lie.

There is a difference between stoning a gay man or women to death and not selling them a cake -Duh. That you lack the intellectual ability to comprehend that discrimination is discrimination amazes me, I wonder how you know how to turn on your computer.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

you really are retarded, or you are just not getting it. Halal and kosher BUTCHERING practices, not the food itself.

Can a Dept of health ban kosher or halal slaughter or not? what about a building department?

Show me a kosher pork chop.

Again, not the argument. Halal and Kosher slaughter are very specific procedures on allowed animals. Can a Department of Health or a Department of Buildings ban the use of said procedures?

Can you force a Halal butcher to follow modern butchering practices on a goat?

Departments of Health or Building Codes may do so only if there is an infraction of existing codes.

Kosher butchers perform ritual procedures assuring their products are, in fact, kosher.

A baker bakes wedding cakes as part of their business. A same sex couple is not asking for a product that exceeds the normal menu of services provided. A same sex wedding cake looks, incredibly, just like any other wedding cake. Or, to put it another way, a same sex wedding cake is indistinguishable from any other wedding cake. What's the problem?

Again, can the government ban Kosher or halal slaughter or not?

You keep not answering the question.

Your question should be: should the government regulate or punish the killing of animals. Of course they can, and I believe they should. Do you support pouching? Hunting deer at night with a light? Taking as many fish as possible, or would you abide by size and limit rules?

The crazy right wing is simple, as in simple minded, characterized by a lack of keen mental discernment and pragmatic judgments. They see a world of black and white, not colorful with different shades and hues.

Anyone who wants to see the world without colorful shades and hues has an absulute right to see the world anyway they wish. No one is taking any of your rights away.

No one is telling gays that they may not have a wedding cake. They need only find a willing contractual partner.

If the government can force someone into being an unwilling partner does the government see any limits on its power?

 

[martybegan]

The problem is you are pretending to be god and deciding who's humility is worthy of addressing. You think it isn't humiliating for a man to lose his livelyhood, food and shelter for his family for not going along with something he considers morally wrong? I'd rather the gays couple be inconvenienced by going elsewhere.

You use the term Christian in quotes as if you are the final arbitrator of what is truly Christian. That's the level of tyranny and arrogance we've come to expect from the left.

Same sex customers at a bakery are patrons. They are not putting the baker, whose reason for business is to provide baked goods, out of business. The actions of the baker, imposing a mercantile imperator, a seal of approval, for which he has no brief, on a couple is what is putting him out of business.

Do these 'Christian' bakers morally vet each of their clients, or just the ones they hate?

And I use quotes arouyd the word Christian referring to these bakers because they are using Christianity to serve a vile purpose the same way the Taliban uses Islam.

Blaming the gun and not the person pulling the trigger, typical for a leftist fucktard like yourself.

Marty, you seem to be losing it. Muslim extremists stone homosexuals to death, Christian extremists discriminate against them; the distinction of manner matters not - both are vile.

You also seem to be obsessed with guns, for the record, guns kill people. The meme that people kill people, guns don't is childish: For want of a gun the victim was saved makes much more sense.

There is a huge difference between wanting to stone homosexuals and not wanting to make their wedding cake. that you have to equivocate them shows the shallowness of your position.

It was a comparison, and again an apt one.

And your penchant for disarming law abiding people in the hopes law breaking ones will stay disarmed is comical and really really stupid.

You are an unabashed damn liar. I have stated unequivocally that I support the right of sober, sane and honest citizens the right to own, possess or have in their custody and control a firearm. Stating otherwise is a damn lie.

There is a difference between stoning a gay man or women to death and not selling them a cake -Duh. That you lack the intellectual ability to comprehend that discrimination is discrimination amazes me, I wonder how you know how to turn on your computer.

You support it with all sorts of disclaimers and impediments that can be misused to create de facto bans, much like in NYC. When I have asked you if NYC's rules constitute infringement, you have hemmed and hawed about them and never given me a solid answer.

Discrimination isn't discrimination when it is done to people you don't like, as far as progressives go. So discriminating against religious people is OK if you don't like them, and as long as you can make some lame excuse why it's OK to do it.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The government is imposing on all citizens the government's concept of sin and demanding that all citizens accept the government's definition as gospel.

Does that justify the narrow interpretation of some 'Christians' to impose their moral template on society?

Only liberals are imposing their moral template.

 

[boilermaker55]

Not when they are bigots and haters.

The problem is any asshole that believes they have the right to demand a small business owner goes to their event and caters to them. Use a corporation in that business that doesn't have a conscience and leave the privates alone.

 

[Nosmo King]

check which argument you are replying to.

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

When you applaud government force to adjudicate butt hurt remedies, you are a fascist.

And when you don't want to answer questions put to you, but instead go back to the same tired explanation you have repeated ad nauseum, you are an idiot.

when you dismiss discrimination as 'butt hurt', you show that you really don't get it. And my argument is consistent. I don't have to equivocate something like guns to same sex marriage. No slender reed of an argument for me! I know I'm correct because I'm not ouit to erode rights but to protect them.

When you equate having to spend 1/2 an hour with getting someone else to make your cake with a person having to either go against their morals or go out of business and be fined a ridiculous amount, that shows you are an oppressive asshole, who only can see things from their own viewpoint.

And you are definitely out to erode someone's rights, but because you hate religious people you don't give a rats ass about it. Stop trying to pretend you are the "nice person" in all of this.

If my particular 'moral code' dictates that I shall not serve African Americans because dealing with a sub-human species is an abomination, is my 'moral code' enforceable in the courts of justice or public opinion? Perhaps the problem, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves. Using the cover of religious freedom to foment hatred does a disservice to religion. I do not believe in a right to discriminate when that discrimination serves no purpose other than to demean.

 

[Nosmo King]

The government is imposing on all citizens the government's concept of sin and demanding that all citizens accept the government's definition as gospel.

Does that justify the narrow interpretation of some 'Christians' to impose their moral template on society?

Only liberals are imposing their moral template.

What other than imposing a moral template defines discrimination due to sexual orientation?

 

[Wry Catcher]

The government is imposing on all citizens the government's concept of sin and demanding that all citizens accept the government's definition as gospel.

Maybe you need to read some history, or go somewhere where no government exists, where no taxes are due, no laws restrict you, and you are free to do whatever you decide at the moment.

 

[martybegan]

it's a comparison, one that evidently went over your empty fascist head.

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

When you applaud government force to adjudicate butt hurt remedies, you are a fascist.

And when you don't want to answer questions put to you, but instead go back to the same tired explanation you have repeated ad nauseum, you are an idiot.

when you dismiss discrimination as 'butt hurt', you show that you really don't get it. And my argument is consistent. I don't have to equivocate something like guns to same sex marriage. No slender reed of an argument for me! I know I'm correct because I'm not ouit to erode rights but to protect them.

When you equate having to spend 1/2 an hour with getting someone else to make your cake with a person having to either go against their morals or go out of business and be fined a ridiculous amount, that shows you are an oppressive asshole, who only can see things from their own viewpoint.

And you are definitely out to erode someone's rights, but because you hate religious people you don't give a rats ass about it. Stop trying to pretend you are the "nice person" in all of this.

If my particular 'moral code' dictates that I shall not serve African Americans because dealing with a sub-human species is an abomination, is my 'moral code' enforceable in the courts of justice or public opinion? Perhaps the problem, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves. Using the cover of religious freedom to foment hatred does a disservice to religion. I do not believe in a right to discriminate when that discrimination serves no purpose other than to demean.

And that conveniently lets the side you like "win", and the side you don't like "lose". What you are proposing IS discrimination, but its done by government as your proxy, against people you don't like or understand (or care to understand) so you get to keep your hands clean and still get what you want. Meanwhile a couple is ruined and stopped from doing what they love to do simply over a wedding cake.

For some reason we rarely saw this with regards to race, because when it came to weddings most groups "stick to their own", so the issue never really came up. Plus you don't really see many white supremacists in the cake business, what you do see is plenty of religious people, and their rights are being curtailed in the name of "fairness" which is basically bullshit.

 

[Nosmo King]

I'm not a Fascist and I am more intelligent than you are willing to admit.

When you applaud government force to adjudicate butt hurt remedies, you are a fascist.

And when you don't want to answer questions put to you, but instead go back to the same tired explanation you have repeated ad nauseum, you are an idiot.

when you dismiss discrimination as 'butt hurt', you show that you really don't get it. And my argument is consistent. I don't have to equivocate something like guns to same sex marriage. No slender reed of an argument for me! I know I'm correct because I'm not ouit to erode rights but to protect them.

When you equate having to spend 1/2 an hour with getting someone else to make your cake with a person having to either go against their morals or go out of business and be fined a ridiculous amount, that shows you are an oppressive asshole, who only can see things from their own viewpoint.

And you are definitely out to erode someone's rights, but because you hate religious people you don't give a rats ass about it. Stop trying to pretend you are the "nice person" in all of this.

If my particular 'moral code' dictates that I shall not serve African Americans because dealing with a sub-human species is an abomination, is my 'moral code' enforceable in the courts of justice or public opinion? Perhaps the problem, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves. Using the cover of religious freedom to foment hatred does a disservice to religion. I do not believe in a right to discriminate when that discrimination serves no purpose other than to demean.

And that conveniently lets the side you like "win", and the side you don't like "lose". What you are proposing IS discrimination, but its done by government as your proxy, against people you don't like or understand (or care to understand) so you get to keep your hands clean and still get what you want. Meanwhile a couple is ruined and stopped from doing what they love to do simply over a wedding cake.

For some reason we rarely saw this with regards to race, because when it came to weddings most groups "stick to their own", so the issue never really came up. Plus you don't really see many white supremacists in the cake business, what you do see is plenty of religious people, and their rights are being curtailed in the name of "fairness" which is basically bullshit.

The problem is not the cake but the actions of the baker.

And if I understand your last sentence, you're in favor of unfairness. An untenable position