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And if you knew the Bible you’d know those before Jesus who were making it to heaven were in ‘paradise’. Luke tells us Abraham and all the Saints are already with God. Others are in Hades with a chasm between the two.Purification and Paradise, as far as I know, is not the same place--much on the order that Paradise and Heaven are not the same place. Paradise is often described as a garden, or a place of rest and refreshment.
Who said purification was a place of torment?No matter how fast you spin it, there is no reference to us saints going to a place of torment in order to get to heaven.
Why would anyone oppose a cult that makes up their own rules to gain power and wealth while passing themselves off as being Christian?
you won't even identify your church.IF you ever read the Bible you’d know the Catholic Church is a cult of manmade rituals and anti-Christian practices and rituals.
Purgatory
Saints
Father
Salvation
Just some of the points made that no translation can justify in your cult.
Your cult says so.Who said purification was a place of torment?
I belong to the only church there is.Hahaha
So what’s your point?Purgatory:
"Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny" (Matthew 5:25-26).
"For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." (Corinthians 3:11-15)
Saints:
The Bible uses the word "Saint" to mean anyone who lives a "Holy life and is set apart for God's special purpose". By that standard, the majority of people that focus their lives living according to Biblical teachings could be considered "Saints".
The Catholic Church humbly honors God by only using the word for God's most devout followers. It is done in a respectful way to preserve the meaning of the word.
Father:
Jesus also said not to call your teachers "Rabbi" (Teacher) and not to call anyone "Master" (Lord). He was emphasizing the importance of understanding the difference between using those words in every day language vs in a spiritual way.
The words "Father, Teacher and Master/Lord" are used repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments:
For example:
Job indicates he played a fatherly role with the less fortunate: “I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16). And God himself declares that he will give a fatherly role to Eliakim, the steward of the house of David: “In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah” (Isa. 22:20–21).
This type of fatherhood applies not only to those who are wise counselors or benefactors (like Job) or both (like Eliakim); it also applies to those who have a fatherly spiritual relationship with one. For example, Elisha cries, “My father, my father!” to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).
Call No Man "Father"?
Some Protestants claim that when Catholics address priests as "father," they are engaging in an unbiblical practice. Here's how to respond.www.catholic.com
Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.
As the apostolic example shows, some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood, meaning that they can be referred to as spiritual fathers. What must not be done is to confuse their form of spiritual paternity with that of God. Ultimately, God is our supreme protector, provider, and instructor. Correspondingly, it is wrong to view any individual other than God as having these roles.
Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).
John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).
By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.
Call No Man "Father"?
Some Protestants claim that when Catholics address priests as "father," they are engaging in an unbiblical practice. Here's how to respond.
Salvation?
Both the Old and New Testaments state that living a humble and pious spiritual life is key to living in accordance with God's ways. Living in a material world can make that difficult to do on an everyday, physical level. How can one reconcile the two? It's enough to make even the most devout followers stressed out, doubtful of themselves, the world and so forth.
The Catholic Church teaches that salvation comes through faith - that can be true. But what happens when one is "spiritually faithful" (or doing their best to be) but has a bad week? Bad month? Bad year? Eventually what could happen is that person will lose track of their "spirituality" because the cross they are carrying becomes too heavy to carry.
So we are given the gift of being able to talk to someone about it, confess our mistakes to God, ask for forgiveness from God and then given the opportunity of taking the first step of getting "back on track" - by prayer, penance - humbling ourselves. That doesn't mean that a person needs to go to physical confession every time they slip up - if they are sincere about it, they can do it any time they feel the need - at home, in a peaceful place - there's nothing wrong with humbling yourself and admitting your mistakes.
Salvation and works go hand in hand. For some, their faith is so strong that their works are shown through their faith. For others, their works, sacrifices and piety are so strong that their faith is shown by their works.
So what’s your point?
Matthew. You think it refers to a torture after death.
You’re a fool.
21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.' 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.
Call no man father.The ministry of Jesus Christ was focused on both body and soul (spirit). That passage can pertain to what could happen to your physical body but the more important issue is what could happen to your soul...
“So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[b] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."
I'm not going to judge you or argue with you about something you were taught and firmly believe in your heart.Call no man father.
There’s no such thing as purgatory.
Humans don’t create saints.
Faith in Jesus is everything you need for salvation to heaven.
I'm looking for where it says "torment".Your cult says so.
Purgatory is a place or state of purification or temporary punishment in which souls in a state of grace are prepared for heaven1. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, purgatory is a “purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven,” which is experienced by those “who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified”2. Purgatory is a state of purification for those who have died without mortal sin but still need to be purified from venial sins34.
If I were you I’d start reading the Bible so you save your soul.I'm not going to judge you or argue with you about something you were taught and firmly believe in your heart.
If I were you, I would do the same for others - judging others, calling people fools and damning the entirety of the Catholic Church and all its members because you interpret things differently than they do - won't do you any favors - in this life or the next.
I think the word “punishment” fits the bill.I'm looking for where it says "torment".
Many would take issue with the idea the individual can save his/her own soul.If I were you I’d start reading the Bible so you save your soul.
I question that. You don’t look to God. You look to your cult first. I pray for youMany would take issue with the idea the individual can save his/her own soul.
No worries because my soul has been entrusted to God for decades. My trust is in him, not the King James Bible.
Both God and I are astonished that I don't look to him. But we guess you know best.I question that. You don’t look to God. You look to your cult first. I pray for you
You are in error sir--These at Matt 7:21-23 accept Jesus in their hearts, they believe in Jesus, yet they will hear those words as judgement= Get away from me you who work iniquity( practice a sin) i must confess i never even knew you.“It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood.”
Pope Pius IX
Dozens of other popes have said the same thing.
Yet the entire ministry of Jesus the Christ was all about simply accepting Him as the Son of God in your heart makes you saved. The criminal on the cross next to Jesus went to paradise simply because he came to faith as he witnessed what was going on.
Papal Declarations on "No Salvation Outside the Church" - Scripture Catholic
JF: I lead our Parish’s RCIA class. I am reading your “The Biblical Basis for the Catholic Faith” book. I use what I learn from your book in our class. On Page 217 under the subtitle “No salvation outside the Catholic Church” you write “The Church teaches that no one will be saved who, knowing […]www.scripturecatholic.com
Until Martin Luther the catholic cult kept the Bible in Latin so only a select few wealthy people could actually see what the Bible really said. You were put to death for translation of the Bible into a common language.
And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Mathew 23
And guess what. Yep. More anti-Biblical teachings by the Catholic cult.
Catholics have an elite class of leaders that can never be questioned and must be obeyed. Only they are allowed to interpret the Bible.
Many of the teachings of the catholic cult are non Biblical and invented by leaders of the cult. They have a 900 page book on how the Bible is to be interpreted.
What verse would you like me to share? Old Testament? New Testament? How about both?If I were you I’d start reading the Bible so you save your soul.
Purgatory:
"Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny" (Matthew 5:25-26).
"For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." (Corinthians 3:11-15)
Saints:
The Bible uses the word "Saint" to mean anyone who lives a "Holy life and is set apart for God's special purpose". By that standard, the majority of people that focus their lives living according to Biblical teachings could be considered "Saints".
The Catholic Church humbly honors God by only using the word for God's most devout followers. It is done in a respectful way to preserve the meaning of the word.
Father:
Jesus also said not to call your teachers "Rabbi" (Teacher) and not to call anyone "Master" (Lord). He was emphasizing the importance of understanding the difference between using those words in every day language vs in a spiritual way.
The words "Father, Teacher and Master/Lord" are used repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments:
For example:
Job indicates he played a fatherly role with the less fortunate: “I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16). And God himself declares that he will give a fatherly role to Eliakim, the steward of the house of David: “In that day I will call my servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah . . . and I will clothe him with [a] robe, and will bind [a] girdle on him, and will commit . . . authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah” (Isa. 22:20–21).
This type of fatherhood applies not only to those who are wise counselors or benefactors (like Job) or both (like Eliakim); it also applies to those who have a fatherly spiritual relationship with one. For example, Elisha cries, “My father, my father!” to Elijah as the latter is carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12). Later, Elisha himself is called a father by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).
Call No Man "Father"?
Some Protestants claim that when Catholics address priests as "father," they are engaging in an unbiblical practice. Here's how to respond.
Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.
As the apostolic example shows, some individuals genuinely do have a spiritual fatherhood, meaning that they can be referred to as spiritual fathers. What must not be done is to confuse their form of spiritual paternity with that of God. Ultimately, God is our supreme protector, provider, and instructor. Correspondingly, it is wrong to view any individual other than God as having these roles.
Perhaps the most pointed New Testament reference to the theology of the spiritual fatherhood of priests is Paul’s statement, “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel” (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
Peter followed the same custom, referring to Mark as his son: “She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark” (1 Pet. 5:13). The apostles sometimes referred to entire churches under their care as their children. Paul writes, “Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their children” (2 Cor. 12:14); and, “My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!” (Gal. 4:19).
John said, “My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 John 2:1); “No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth” (3 John 4). In fact, John also addresses men in his congregations as “fathers” (1 John 2:13–14).
By referring to these people as their spiritual sons and spiritual children, Peter, Paul, and John imply their own roles as spiritual fathers. Since the Bible frequently speaks of this spiritual fatherhood, we Catholics acknowledge it and follow the custom of the apostles by calling priests “father.” Failure to acknowledge this is a failure to recognize and honor a great gift God has bestowed on the Church: the spiritual fatherhood of the priesthood.
Call No Man "Father"?
Some Protestants claim that when Catholics address priests as "father," they are engaging in an unbiblical practice. Here's how to respond.
Salvation?
Both the Old and New Testaments state that living a humble and pious spiritual life is key to living in accordance with God's ways. Living in a material world can make that difficult to do on an everyday, physical level. How can one reconcile the two? It's enough to make even the most devout followers stressed out, doubtful of themselves, the world and so forth.
The Catholic Church teaches that salvation comes through faith - that can be true. But what happens when one is "spiritually faithful" (or doing their best to be) but has a bad week? Bad month? Bad year? Eventually what could happen is that person will lose track of their "spirituality" because the cross they are carrying becomes too heavy to carry.
So we are given the gift of being able to talk to someone about it, confess our mistakes to God, ask for forgiveness from God and then given the opportunity of taking the first step of getting "back on track" - by prayer, penance - humbling ourselves. That doesn't mean that a person needs to go to physical confession every time they slip up - if they are sincere about it, they can do it any time they feel the need - at home, in a peaceful place - there's nothing wrong with humbling yourself and admitting your mistakes.
Salvation and works go hand in hand. For some, their faith is so strong that their works are shown through their faith. For others, their works, sacrifices and piety are so strong that their faith is shown by their works.
Argument 3 for Purgatory
The author next cites Matthew 5 as evidence for purgatory: “25 Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I say to you, you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last cent.” He goes on to state that the word for prison is the Greek word phulake, which he says is used in 1 Peter 3 as a temporary holding place, which he says gives further support for his argument. What he does not say is that phulake is also used for the word “prison” throughout the New Testament, so there’s nothing special about how it’s used in 1 Peter 3.
So, is Jesus referring to purgatory here? As demonstrated above, Christ has paid for all of our sins, once for all, and God will remember our sins no more. Therefore, this can’t mean purgatory. In this passage, Christ is simply emphasizing that a sinner will never be let out of prison since he cannot pay for his sins because he lacks the ability to pay, namely, the sinlessness of Christ. What Jesus is saying, then, is that those who are guilty (everyone) should settle his sin before he gets to the judge. The only way to settle our sin is by believing in Jesus. The judge here is God, who will punish with an eternal death in hell all who have not settled their sins by faith in Christ, a punishment from which there is no “repayment.
John Calvin wrote about this passage (you have to love his sarcasm):
“But it is highly ridiculous in the Papists, to construct their purgatory out of a continued allegory on this passage. Nothing is more evident than that the subject of Christ's discourse is the cultivation of friendship among men. They have no shame, or conscientious scruple, to pervert his words, and to torture them into a widely different meaning, provided they can impose on the unlearned. But as they do not deserve a lengthened refutation, I shall only point out, in a single word, their shameful ignorance. The adversary is supposed by them to be the devil. But Christ enjoins those who believe on him to be agreed with the adversary. Therefore, in order that the Papists may find their purgatory here, they must first become the friends and brethren of devils. A farthing is well known to be the fourth part of a penny: but here, as is evident from Luke, it denotes a mite, or any small piece of money. Now, if we were disposed to caviling [irritating or annoying objection], we might here obtain another exposure of the absurdity of the Papists. For, if he who has once entered Purgatory will never leave it, till he has paid the last farthing, it follows, that the suffrages (as they call them) of the living for the dead are of no avail. For Christ makes no allowance, that others may free a debtor by satisfying for him, but expressly demands from each person the payment of what he owes. Now, if Moses and other satisfactions are useless, however warm the fire of Purgatory may be, yet the kitchens of priests and monks, for the sake of which they are so anxious to maintain it, will be cool enough.”
Therefore, this argument does not support purgatory. Refuting Purgatory | Verse By Verse Ministry International
