black woman shot by white neighbor

[Blues Man]

At face value this does not seem like justifiable self defense to me.

Just to remind everyone,

The use of deadly force in self defense requires the articulation of an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to oneself or another.

 

[Vastator]

At face value this does not seem like justifiable self defense to me.

Just to remind everyone,

The use of deadly force in self defense requires the articulation of an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to oneself or another.

Then I guess whatever words passed between these two, prior to the pulling of the trigger will play a role...

 

[Blues Man]

Then I guess whatever words passed between these two, prior to the pulling of the trigger will play a role...

It seems there was a door between them I don't see how there could be what amounts to a reasonable conclusion that an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm would be construed but you are right we don't have all the info yet

 

[Vastator]

It seems there was a door between them I don't see how there could be what amounts to a reasonable conclusion that an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm would be construed but you are right we don't have all the info yet

Apparently that door wasn't protection from bodily harm...

 

[Blues Man]

Apparently that door wasn't protection from bodily harm...

Assumption.

If this goes to trial that door could be seen by a reasonable person to be adequate protection.

Like you said we don't have all the info yet

 

[horselightning]

Advocates call for abolishing ‘stand your ground’ laws after Ajike Owens's death

Police arrested Susan Lorincz, 58, in the fatal shooting of Ajike “AJ” Owens, a mother of four who died June 2 in front of her 10-year-old child in Ocala, Fla. The shooting has renewed attention to Florida’s controversial “stand your ground” law.

www.aol.com

now they want to take the stand your ground law away because of these two idiot woman. they are trying to make is so you cant defend yourself at all. that wont work.

 

[horselightning]

Florida woman who fatally shot neighbor appears in court, sheriff releases details of racist threats

A white Florida woman charged with shooting and killing her Black neighbor told detectives...

www.theintelligencer.com

White woman's side. she says the kids and black lady had threatened to kill her numerous occasions that's why she bought the gun. she claims the woman was knocking on her door so hard the door shook and black lady was screaming and ordering her out so got scared and shot her thought she was really going to kill her. and she shot. this was not race thing. other neighbors complained about her not liking there kids playing next to her building. why are these kids parent not telling there kids to not play anywhere near her home common sense. The lot they played in was next here place they made so much noise it disturbed her. Seems to me by these parents continuing to let thy play loudly there they were instigating the situation. Common sense is to keep your kids away from her and the lot. I'm sure there is other places they could play. Does not give the woman free license to come out and getting in yelling match with the kids. It shows the bad parenting going on that they allowed their kids to name call back at this woman and threaten her life. Who ever owned the lot should have put signs or fence up and made it no play zone. You got a bunch raggedy kids and single food stamp mamas instigating the problem and sick elderly lady was. No one was right in this case and older lady will probably do some jail time unless they can get her on a monitoring bracelet at home because of her age. And Ben Crumps lies and the rest black communites lies are not helping.

 

[Persuader]

At face value this does not seem like justifiable self defense to me.

Just to remind everyone,

The use of deadly force in self defense requires the articulation of an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury to oneself or another.

Lethal force is allowed in self defense if the person under attack believes their life is in danger or and if they believe they may face serious bodily harm.

Most state laws on self defense are very similar and none of them require articulation as you claiml.

The fear of death or serious bodily harm must be reasonable.

Unfortunately we have seen the law on self defense erode due to the politics of race....as in pc dominates the judiciary in many if not most cases.

 

[Blues Man]

Lethal force is allowed in self defense if the person under attack believes their life is in danger or and if they believe they may face serious bodily harm.

Most state laws on self defense are very similar and none of them require articulation as you claiml.

The fear of death or serious bodily harm must be reasonable.

Unfortunately we have seen the law on self defense erode due to the politics of race....as in pc dominates the judiciary in many if not most cases.

Actually the the standard used in court when people get prosecuted is deadly force is justified if any reasonable person would have seen the situation as an imminent threat to life or of severe bodily injury

The fact that a woman shot through a door might make a reasonable person think her life was not in imminent danger from an unarmed person.

And race has nothing to do with it in all reality. Just because a white person is afraid of Black people does not make every shooting of a black person by a white person self defense.

 

[Persuader]

Actually the the standard used in court when people get prosecuted is deadly force is justified if any reasonable person would have seen the situation as an imminent threat to life or of severe bodily injury

The fact that a woman shot through a door might make a reasonable person think her life was not in imminent danger from an unarmed person.

And race has nothing to do with it in all reality. Just because a white person is afraid of Black people does not make every shooting of a black person by a white person self defense.

Again.....................
ustifiable use of deadly force is defined in Florida Statute Section 776.012(2):
j

• A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

Law enforcement rarely gives self defense due consideration during their investigation and so it is often up to the client and the defense attorney to convince a prosecutor, a judge, or a jury that the act was reasonable self defense.

 

[Blues Man]

Again.....................
ustifiable use of deadly force is defined in Florida Statute Section 776.012(2):
j

• A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

Law enforcement rarely gives self defense due consideration during their investigation and so it is often up to the client and the defense attorney to convince a prosecutor, a judge, or a jury that the act was reasonable self defense.

If you shoot in self defense and kill someone you absolutely should have to prove it was justified.

 

[Persuader]

If you shoot in self defense and kill someone you absolutely should have to prove it was justified.

No....you got it backwards boyo.......it is up to the state to prove it was not justified.

This is a fundamental tenet of our legal system.....it is up to the state to prove a defendant is guilty....anyone who does not understand this lacks a basic understanding of our system of juirisprudence....yet one sees several on here who just do not get it....typical for this dumbdowned board and even more typical of our dumbdowned society.

 

[horselightning]

No....you got it backwards boyo.......it is up to the state to prove it was not justified.

This is a fundamental tenet of our legal system.....it is up to the state to prove a defendant is guilty....anyone who does not understand this lacks a basic understanding of our system of juirisprudence....yet one sees several on here who just do not get it....typical for this dumbdowned board and even more typical of our dumbdowned society.

true both had wrong in it. but one killed the other. both have two different stories. now for court case.

 

[GHook20]

THIS IS MURDER! This killer needs to fry for shooting this innocent woman through her door just because the mother wanted to come in talk to her. This is bullshit.

That is what the media is making it seem like and they never distort the truth! Lol.

They do this all the time, esp when race is involved!

I learned my lesson to wait for the facts from the Zimmerman railroading.

 

[horselightning]

Florida woman who fatally shot Black neighbor granted $154,000 bond

A judge has granted a $154,000 bond for a Florida woman charged in the fatal shooting of her neighbor.

www.news4jax.com

white lady bonds out and had to wear ankle monitor. told you this would happen.

After the shooting, Lorincz told investigators she had problems for two years with being disrespected by children in the neighborhood — including Owens' children, who are ages 12, 9, 7 and 3.

Owens then came over and knocked on her door. Lorincz told investigators that Owens threatened to kill her and banged on the door so hard she feared Owens would break it down.

She also said they threatened to kill her before the kids too. both were wrong. so we will see.

 

[SavannahMann]

No....you got it backwards boyo.......it is up to the state to prove it was not justified.

This is a fundamental tenet of our legal system.....it is up to the state to prove a defendant is guilty....anyone who does not understand this lacks a basic understanding of our system of juirisprudence....yet one sees several on here who just do not get it....typical for this dumbdowned board and even more typical of our dumbdowned society.

Actually. Not really.

You will have to give a statement to the police to describe why you used violence. The evidence can be interpreted in many different ways. Now you can delay this statement until you have a lawyer there to help you. BTW I encourage that without reservation and in every single case. Don’t think the cops are your friends. I don’t care how many blue line bumper stickers you have. They aren’t your friends.

However, at some point you are going to have to make a statement to explain the use of violence. And at that time, your initial statement, you need to show your actions were justified. You need to be able to tell the story so it matches the evidence, and protects you from prosecution. One poorly chosen phrase and you could be facing charges. Backpedaling on that later, is a lot more difficult than getting it right the first time.

So your initial statement to police, you have to demonstrate your use of force, deadly force, was justified under the law. This is your first, and best, opportunity to demonstrate you have not committed a crime. Every step after this, it gets harder. The analogy is a boulder starting to roll down a gentle slope. At first, you can nudge it easily to a new path. As time goes by and the rock picks up speed, it gets harder, and harder, until it is impossible.

So while you are technically Innocent until Proven Guilty. Your responsibility to explain the events and circumstances surrounding the use of deadly force, means you will be explaining how the use of force was justified, or you will be charged with a crime. And waiting to tell your story on the stand at your trial, isn’t exactly the best advice anyone will give you.

 

[SavannahMann]

Florida woman who fatally shot Black neighbor granted $154,000 bond

A judge has granted a $154,000 bond for a Florida woman charged in the fatal shooting of her neighbor.

www.news4jax.com

white lady bonds out and had to wear ankle monitor. told you this would happen.

After the shooting, Lorincz told investigators she had problems for two years with being disrespected by children in the neighborhood — including Owens' children, who are ages 12, 9, 7 and 3.

Owens then came over and knocked on her door. Lorincz told investigators that Owens threatened to kill her and banged on the door so hard she feared Owens would break it down.

She also said they threatened to kill her before the kids too. both were wrong. so we will see.

Let’s say you and I are arguing online. You threaten to kill me. I am not saying you would actually do this, but for the sake of this example, I’m using you and me as an example. I being a leftist whiner rush to my local police and file a report that you threatened to kill me.

My local cops would tell me to stop wasting their time. A threat like that is made ten thousand times a day. It’s made in traffic as some idiot cuts off another idiot who is short tempered. The threat alone, must be coupled with the ability. In my scenario above, we are separated by a thousand miles of distance and a certain anonymity. You don’t know where I live, and it is unlikely that you would travel a thousand miles to start searching for me.

If I end up dead on the other hand, and they have no idea who did it, they may look online and see my history, and your history, and start to wonder if you did travel to the local area.

So the threat, must be coupled with the capability. You or I have to be able to carry out the threat. Merely shouting “I should kill you you son of a *****” at a car that cuts you off isn’t proof of intent. It is most likely a short tempered idiot blowing off steam.

To this case. The Woman inside her home should have called the police. She had time. Dial 911 and watch the door. If the other woman starts to break in, actually damaging the door and making entry probable, then you have a completely different situation.

You have the threat, recorded on the 911 call of the woman outside shouting that you were going to die. You have the door being broken, at least to the point where the entry of the woman is probable. Then you have self defense covered for the courts. Your actions were literally the last resort to protect yourself. Shooting through the door, that’s a lot harder to justify.

 

[horselightning]

Let’s say you and I are arguing online. You threaten to kill me. I am not saying you would actually do this, but for the sake of this example, I’m using you and me as an example. I being a leftist whiner rush to my local police and file a report that you threatened to kill me.

My local cops would tell me to stop wasting their time. A threat like that is made ten thousand times a day. It’s made in traffic as some idiot cuts off another idiot who is short tempered. The threat alone, must be coupled with the ability. In my scenario above, we are separated by a thousand miles of distance and a certain anonymity. You don’t know where I live, and it is unlikely that you would travel a thousand miles to start searching for me.

If I end up dead on the other hand, and they have no idea who did it, they may look online and see my history, and your history, and start to wonder if you did travel to the local area.

So the threat, must be coupled with the capability. You or I have to be able to carry out the threat. Merely shouting “I should kill you you son of a *****” at a car that cuts you off isn’t proof of intent. It is most likely a short tempered idiot blowing off steam.

To this case. The Woman inside her home should have called the police. She had time. Dial 911 and watch the door. If the other woman starts to break in, actually damaging the door and making entry probable, then you have a completely different situation.

You have the threat, recorded on the 911 call of the woman outside shouting that you were going to die. You have the door being broken, at least to the point where the entry of the woman is probable. Then you have self defense covered for the courts. Your actions were literally the last resort to protect yourself. Shooting through the door, that’s a lot harder to justify.

yep she bailed out today with ankle bracelet.

 

[SavannahMann]

yep she bailed out today with ankle bracelet.

I have no heartburn with that. Bail is in the constitution.

 

[Quasar44]

we only get one side of the story??

I have a feeling we are missing something