Zone1 Are Humans Essentially Good or Evil?

[westwall]

Are humans essentially good or evil? I am not posing this question in a Garden of Eden context, but in the context of societal evolution. What I am now witnessing is a growing indifference to whether something is morally good or evil. I understand that this is a normative concept but, in the past, people seemed more willing to express their moral opinions about actions taken by themselves and others.

For the past few years, it has been inculcated into our society that to have an opinion on such matters is evil. As a result, even thinking about these thinks has been considered indicative of a biased upbringing and poor character. In the face of this attack on traditional moral values, more and more people have adopted an amoral shield from reality that allows them to act expediently without any regard for the future consequences of those actions.

This seems to be a degeneration from one of the basic differences that distinguish human from other animals. If this distinction diminishes, does that mean that we are reverting to our natural instincts? And if so, does that absolve us from any moral transgressions? Are we really made in God's image, or are we just a biological anomaly that will eventually recede into a vast pool of nucleic acids?

Most are benign. Figure 80%. They go along to get along. 5% are good. 5% are bad. 5% are amoral, and 5% are evil.

 

[the watcher]

My point is that more people are willingly heedless of the consequences` of their actions. "If it makes you happy, it must be OK" and "Live for today" are no longer just song lyrics: They have increasingly become a philosophical standard.

What is good and what is evil? It means nothing, like what is cold and what is hot? Compared to what? There must be a reference point, and it certainly can shift in a population depending on the human condition, and needs and perceptions. Only the individual can establish a baseline for their personal standards, and you see how widely that can vary. We address the extreme behaviors of people, but there is a huge variation in the median.

 

[Cassandro]

Short answer I would go back and say ALL humans are afflicted with original sin.

Does that mean that humans were CREATED with original sin? I prefer to think of sin as a reversion to our animal instincts, thereby betraying our gift of intelligence and the knowledge of right and wrong. We should all aspire to living up to our potential, but external forces often limit that potential by undermining self esteem and personal responsibility.

 

[Zebra]

they can be terrible

 

[Anathema]

Human beings are neither Good nor Evil instinctively. Human beings ARE naturally narcissistic and self-interested. What we do with those instincts determines whether we will be seen as Good or Evil by others.

 

[BreezeWood]

This seems to be a degeneration from one of the basic differences that distinguish human from other animals.

odd comment blaming wildlife for evil as how many actually display evil characteristics as does so much of humanity.

the spoken religion of antiquity makes a distinction not found in the desert ...

Then they said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

all life are made in the image of the heavens the same ...

truly, were other species to mimic evil as does humanity the consequences would be catastrophic.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Are humans essentially good or evil? I am not posing this question in a Garden of Eden context, but in the context of societal evolution. What I am now witnessing is a growing indifference to whether something is morally good or evil. I understand that this is a normative concept but, in the past, people seemed more willing to express their moral opinions about actions taken by themselves and others.

For the past few years, it has been inculcated into our society that to have an opinion on such matters is evil. As a result, even thinking about these thinks has been considered indicative of a biased upbringing and poor character. In the face of this attack on traditional moral values, more and more people have adopted an amoral shield from reality that allows them to act expediently without any regard for the future consequences of those actions.

This seems to be a degeneration from one of the basic differences that distinguish human from other animals. If this distinction diminishes, does that mean that we are reverting to our natural instincts? And if so, does that absolve us from any moral transgressions? Are we really made in God's image, or are we just a biological anomaly that will eventually recede into a vast pool of nucleic acids?

I don't have time to write a lengthy response

but in response to the first question: Are humans good or evil?

They are very evil (fallen, selfish...etc). Why do you think it is that Jesus said FEW find the narrow way to Heaven? Answer: humans love (or at least accept) sin. Even those who give it up fight the temptation always of returning to it. That's because they are fallen and also because some believe in once saved always saved (or some Catholicized version of it) and therefore think that God makes light of sin the same as they do-- BIG DECEPTION.

I heard this true story of a saint dying and after death he appeared to.. (another monk, I believe) saying that when he died, 32,000 (can't recall exact figure) also died and only 3 made it, 2 by way of Purgatory. The rest fell into Hell.

There's obviously no way to verify this hundreds of years later but why would a canonized saint LIE? He wouldn't. Back in those days, people who were canonized really were worthy of it, which we know because back then we had real popes... The post V2 heads of the Vatican are anything but Catholic, therefore not real popes.

So anyway, it doesn't look like God takes sin half as lightly as humans do.

+

 

[forkintheroad7]

Human beings are neither Good nor Evil instinctively. Human beings ARE naturally narcissistic and self-interested. What we do with those instincts determines whether we will be seen as Good or Evil by others.

Who cares what others think?

We are to care what GOD thinks

And if the Bible is any indication of how He thinks, we are all doomed. And of course, we are if we don't give up our unGodly sins. All sins are that, but I speak mostly of mortal sins: adultery, fornication, abortion, shunning the Church Christ founded (missing Sunday Mass), "doing yourself"... abusing others.. I could go on and on)

 

[Meriweather]

And if the Bible is any indication of how He thinks, we are all doomed. And of course, we are if we don't give up our unGodly sins. All sins are that, but I speak mostly of mortal sins: adultery, fornication, abortion, shunning the Church Christ founded (missing Sunday Mass), "doing yourself"... abusing others.. I could go on and on)

The main failing of Christianity just may be too much focus on life after death. Leading a sinless as possible life here in the present should be for the blessings--and the focus--the Way brings us in our present life, and those blessings and that Way extends into life after death--the blessings don't begin upon death. An analogy would be weight lifting. People lift weights for the results that start in the present and extend into the future.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The main failing of Christianity just may be too much focus on life after death. Leading a sinless as possible life here in the present should be for the blessings--and the focus--the Way brings us in our present life, and those blessings and that Way extends into life after death--the blessings don't begin upon death. An analogy would be weight lifting. People lift weights for the results that start in the present and extend into the future.

I say we need to focus on death and what comes after it. Too many people do not. They live as though they will live on Earth forever. We all do that, it's human nature.

But since Jesus said FEW find the narrow road to Heaven and also that many will attempt to enter Heaven but not be able ("Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven")

yeh, see my first sentence here.

 

[Meriweather]

I say we need to focus on death

I disagree. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of Heaven is here now, within our reach. I refuse to wait until death to begin focusing on Jesus Way into this Kingdom that is present to me right now, today. "Later" is not the way to embrace Jesus' Way/teachings.

 

[sparky]

Genesis provides insight......~S~

 

[onefour1]

When I read this question it make me think of the philosophical question of "why didn't God just simply make us perfect?" As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I have found my answer to this in the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith. Some argue that God is all powerful, all knowing, and all loving and so the problem of evil comes about if God has the power to do anything imaginable, and knows how to do anything imaginable, and loves everyone as one of his children. One must ask, "why didn't God just simply make us perfect if he had the power and knowledge to do so and loves us dearly?" What I have learned from the revelations of the Prophet Joseph Smith is that God is not all powerful in that he can absolutely anything imaginable but that he is all powerful in that he can do all that is possible. Here are few passages from LDS scripture that have taught me this truth:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29,33
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

From these verses I have come to understand that there is a part of man that has always existed. This part of man is known as his intelligence. If man in eternal in nature as an intelligence and has always existed, then God could not create our intelligence. If God could not create our intelligence then he could not create it to be perfect! I also learn that the elements are eternal and God did create them or us out of nothing. Our intelligence and the elements from which we were created have always existed. So if we were created from things that have always existed, then God could not create us to be perfect. Because of this truth, in order for God to have us progress to a higher state of being, we need needed to learn greater truth than we already possessed. One of the purposes of coming to this temporary mortal world was to learn and experience the difference between good and evil. As imperfect beings it was God's plan that we learn the difference between good and evil in this fallen world. When Adam and Eve fell, this is what God had to say:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Here we see that man had advanced to become as one of the Gods, by coming to know good and evil.

The intelligences of mankind that are self-existent were given spirit bodies before being born into this fallen world. Our spirits are literally the offspring of God. God then put Adam's spirit into his physical body which was made from the dust of the earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Because God could not create us to be perfect, we come into this world as imperfect beings to learn good and evil and are given free will to choose between good and evil. If we were not given free will, mankind could not progress of their own free will. If we were to be forced to do good we would truly be good beings in and of ourselves but we only be robots. Free will is critical in become good beings in and of ourselves. However, in this temporary mortal life, given free will, we also can choose evil. God knew that we all would fall short of perfection and sin at times. For this reason he provided a mean whereby we could be forgiven if we would repent turn away from sin. This means was the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ our Savior.

So in answer to the question, "are humans essentially good or evil?", my reply would be that we are imperfect being that are given the opportunity to progress to be more perfect beings by learning good and evil and choosing the good over the evil. Being imperfect beings and being tempted often to do evil, it is critical for our progression to learn the good and hold fast to it and to repent of our evil ways and seek forgiveness of our sins through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. We all need to be converted to Jesus Christ and become one of his disciples and learn to overcome the world following his way. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light.

As little children born into this world we are innocent. The atonement of Jesus Christ covers the original sin of Adam and Eve and we are only held accountable for our own individual sins. Our spirits volunteered to come to a fallen temporary existence so that we could progress to become more like God. It is basically our choices in this life that determine what manner of mankind we choose to become. Let us all turn unto Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior and become what we all desired to become before we were born into this fallen world.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Most are benign. Figure 80%. They go along to get along. 5% are good. 5% are bad. 5% are amoral, and 5% are evil.

My experiences and knowledge of life on Planet E

say

80% evil but don't want to mess up their lives by committing the kind they won't get away with
20% trying to be good
10% of the 20% succeeding at times

 

[forkintheroad7]

I disagree. Jesus taught that the Kingdom of Heaven is here now, within our reach.

You are disagreeing with Christ

Everything He said can be shown to be based on the NEXT life.

You won't get to Heaven focusing on this life. If I have misunderstood you, sorry, but I'm going by the first thing you say here. And I am NOT saying that the Kingdom is not here...

Oh wait, maybe I am

Have you seen the news in the last few years?

The devil is being allowed to thwart our attempts to grow the Kingdom

If you want to know why God would allow such a thing, ask HIM, not yours truly

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[Meriweather]

You are disagreeing with Christ

It was Jesus who taught the kingdom is within our reach today.

 

[forkintheroad7]

Genesis provides insight......~S~

??

lol

 

[forkintheroad7]

It was Jesus who taught the kingdom is within our reach today.

He said the Kingdom is within you, which means Christ is in you if you are in Him, in His Church. He didn't establish a Church just to have some yahoo named Luther come along and call himself starting "another church" that I guess was supposed to be better than the one Christ founded. Did Jesus need 40,000 different supposed "churches" all teaching different doctrines? No, he founded ONE. As a Catholic you likely know that already. But others don't and have been misled even by the Vatican which today (not yesteryear) teaches the bs that any religion can lead you to God, a lie from the devil.

Sure, even a non-church-like entity... even a secular book can teach you things about God (though I wouldn't count on it)... but that will not by itself lead you to Heaven, where Jesus said FEW enter. Only being in Christ and His Church can get anyone to Heaven.

 

[Meriweather]

But others don't and have been misled even by the Vatican which today (not yesteryear) teaches the bs that any religion can lead you to God, a lie from the devil.

The Church teaches that other religions may lead to God, but it is only the Catholic faith that proclaims all teachings of Christ. We have the fullness of his Gospel message. The Church does not differ in that.

 

[forkintheroad7]

The Church teaches that other religions may lead to God, but it is only the Catholic faith that proclaims all teachings of Christ. We have the fullness of his Gospel message. The Church does not differ in that.

Well, I could and probably will find Francis quotes that defy what you say here. And JP II was a heretic also in this regard and on other issues as well. The teachings of the Catholic Church were the same (uniform) throughout the first nearly 20 centuries and then came V2 which changed many things that should not have been changed. Yet, one does not change the Doctrines of Christ.

Today, the Vatican is seriously considering making women priests, of all things. Leo 14, another heretic said something about having to wait for people to... can't recall the exact word.. adjust (?) before changing doctrine!!!!!!!!!!

just OMG

A heretic cannot be pope.

THAT is Catholic dogma.

Saints have said that if a pope becomes a heretic, he falls ipso facto from the papacy and OUT of the Church

(those last highlighted words were said by St Francis DeSales

(A heretic is not even Catholic, much less pope)