Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[themirrorthief]

I have a few questions, if you don't mind. If someone breaks one of those laws, then what? When you say "be a good, decent person" what does that mean exactly? Obeying those laws all the time? Or getting it right more than 50% of the time?

Because the bible also says that NO ONE is good, not even one. (Psalm 14:1-3)

The only standard that matters is God's standard, and God's standard is perfection. That is precisely why everyone needs God's forgiveness and grace when it comes to salvation. It doesn't work to go by the law. No human can obey the law perfectly, at all times.

Even in the Jewish Bible, what we Christians call the Old Testament, faith is what justifies us, not the law. Abraham was justified by faith. (Genesis 15:6) Job was also redeemed by his faith. (Job 19:25) And David. (Psalm 32:1) Also see Habakkuk 2:4.

the jews got royally pissed when jesus kicked some ass and drove the money changers out of the temple...after thaf the big shots decided he had to go...you dont mess with the money people

 

[buttercup]

It is NOT my opinion. Yeshua Himself IS YHWH, manifest in the flesh, born of a virgin, and died on a cross to secure forgiveness of our sins. In case YOU forgot YOUR history. G-d always demanded the shedding of blood for the atonement of sins. The animal sacrifices were a foreshadowing of the coming Moshiach and the way He would die for the sins of mankind. I challenge you to do this. Go to the Gospel of Matthew 27:46. He cried out "Eloi, eloi, lama sabacthani". Then look at Psalm 22. He wasn't crying out to Eli, He declared that HE IS the fulfillment of prophecy. When the new temple is built, animal sacrifices will return. Also, the "messiah" you refer to is NOT the "messiah" prophesied, but the Antichrist.

I was with you up until the second to last sentence, when you said animal sacrifices will return. I was going to give you a "winner" reaction too, but oh well. haha

 

[themirrorthief]

I was with you up until the second to last sentence, when you said animal sacrifices will return. I was going to give you a "winner" reaction too, but oh well. haha

all religions blow....just trust in God and be nice to everyone and help people

 

[buttercup]

all religions blow....just trust in God and be nice to everyone and help people

Yeah, I'm really not a fan of religion either. I don't consider true Christianity a "religion." It's about being born again as a true child of God, having a relationship with our Creator, who loves us and knows us better than we know ourselves.

 

[surada]

Yes, Mary was conceived herself when her father’s sperm met her mother’s egg. Or are you trying to say that Mary’s mother was ALSO a virgin when she got pregnant?

There’s nothing bad or sinful about sex. Why do you have to make it that important religious leaders were not conceived as a result of intercourse? Gd made it pleasurable because he WANTS people to do it, within marriage of course.

Nope. Mary was born without original sin.

 

[Lisa558]

I have a few questions, if you don't mind. If someone breaks one of those laws, then what? When you say "be a good, decent person" what does that mean exactly? Obeying those laws all the time? Or getting it right more than 50% of the time? I'm just asking, because "being a good person" is kind of vague, and could mean different things to different people.

Jews have a list of 613 commandments, all being geared to what I have summarized as a being a “good, decent person.” It is a moral code Gd has set for us.

The bible also says that NO ONE is good, not even one. (Psalm 14:1-3)

The only standard that matters is God's standard, and God's standard is perfection. That is precisely why everyone needs God's forgiveness and grace when it comes to salvation. It doesn't work to go by the law. No human can obey the law perfectly, at all times.

The concept of “perfection” must be a Christian one. Humans can never be perfect, and Gd knows that. That is why we have a Day of Atonement, and in fact atone year-round when we fall short.

We also have a code set for us as to how to atone. We must feel remorse and vow to never do it again……we must ask forgiveness od the person we sinned against if it is a sin against man, or ask forgiveness of Gd if it is a sin against Gd….and then take some proactive action to help compensate for the sin.

So IOW, Gd knows we are human and flawed, but we do not think another person (to Jews, Jesus was just a person) can absolve us of our sins. Only Gd can do that, and He does so when we are feel remorse, vow to never do it again, ask forgiveness, and do a form of tzedekah (charity) to make up for it.

Basically, it’s a moral code to guide us through life.

Even in the Jewish Bible, what we Christians call the Old Testament, faith is what justifies us, not the law. Abraham was justified by faith. (Genesis 15:6) Job was also redeemed by his faith. (Job 19:25) And David. (Psalm 32:1) Also see Habakkuk 2:4.

Yes, Gd wants us to have faith in Him, but that alone is not sufficient. We must try to live by the moral code - the Law - he has set.

 

[Indeependent]

Interesting

I'm reminded of what Dennis Prager has done as a Jew. He wrote a book on each book of the Torah to try and explain it and to show it's rationality so that people might better embrace it.

He has said more than once that he admires Christianity on how it has spread the Torah around the world, and how it helped create the miracle of the United States, that is, people settling the New world who were seeking religious freedom. He credits this to the miracle of the Constitution and the freest state the world had at that time.

I wonder if other Jews feels as though he has broken this rule you speak of.

If you read the NT, you will understand how Prager is praising Christians for being law abiding Noachides, not trying to convert them to Judaism.

 

[BreezeWood]

I have a few questions, if you don't mind. If someone breaks one of those laws, then what? When you say "be a good, decent person" what does that mean exactly? Obeying those laws all the time? Or getting it right more than 50% of the time? I'm just asking, because "being a good person" is kind of vague, and could mean different things to different people.

The bible also says that NO ONE is good, not even one. (Psalm 14:1-3)

The only standard that matters is God's standard, and God's standard is perfection. That is precisely why everyone needs God's forgiveness and grace when it comes to salvation. It doesn't work to go by the law. No human can obey the law perfectly, at all times.

Even in the Jewish Bible, what we Christians call the Old Testament, faith is what justifies us, not the law. Abraham was justified by faith. (Genesis 15:6) Job was also redeemed by his faith. (Job 19:25) And David. (Psalm 32:1) Also see Habakkuk 2:4.

The only standard that matters is God's standard, and God's standard is perfection.

wrong on every level - the heavenly commandment is to triumph good vs evil for spiritual freedom and judgement - purity, not perfection which does not exist.

 

[GMCGeneral]

I was with you up until the second to last sentence, when you said animal sacrifices will return. I was going to give you a "winner" reaction too, but oh well. haha

No, it is scriptural. After the Rapture of the Church, the Holy Spirit also leaves in His current capacity.

 

[irosie91]

The New Testament is over 300 years older, but the propaganda tries to fool people into believing it's much older and Da Evul Xians are newcomers n stuff. It was made in the hopes of countering the wild success of Christianity among Jews themselves; seems a lot of them weren't fond of all those Racial Purity laws the Babylonians fabricated to make themselves a 'master race' and the 'only real Jews'.

the "CROSS" is oldy and moldy and oh so proud
of its hundreds of millions dead in genocides

 

[irosie91]

It's largely rubbish; they can't make themselves a 'master race' with real Torah of Moses, so they fabricated an imaginary 'Oral Torah' to suit themselves. They're obsessed with Xians; they ruined their lucrative scam and reduced them to parasitism off of bigger states ever since they poked the Roman Bear. Even during the Bar Kokhba revolt they expended a lot of effort on trying to rub out Christians and Samaritans, and have been supporting Muslims in their efforts as well. That's why there were so many Jews in Spain, for instance; they were Islam's butt bois and co-invaders.

Jews got to Iberia long before the rapist of mecca
was born. Bar Kokhba had nothing to do with
either christians (butt bois to greeks and romans)
or Samaritans----he fought roman butt bois.
Jews fled Iberia based on the filth of both christian
and muslim oppression or hid in the hills or faked conversion. Interestingly, it was Maimonides who
overcame the reluctance to fake conversion to FILTH

 

[JustAGuy1]

Nope. Mary was born without original sin.

Nope, Jesus was according to the Bible.

 

[irosie91]

the jews got royally pissed when jesus kicked some ass and drove the money changers out of the temple...after thaf the big shots decided he had to go...you dont mess with the money people

the attack by Jesus on the money changers in
the Temple PROVES he was a Pharisee. The
money changers were Roman shills just as were
the tax collectors for Rome----like disgusting
pig MATTHEW-----That attack was sedition against
Rome for which tens of thousands of Pharisees
were crucified by ROME----the big fact that the Jelly bean criminals MUST PERVERT in order to
justify their smelly behinds

 

[BreezeWood]

the attack by Jesus on the money changers in
the Temple PROVES he was a Pharisee. The
money changers were Roman shills just as were
the tax collectors for Rome----like disgusting
pig MATTHEW-----That attack was sedition against
Rome for which tens of thousands of Pharisees
were crucified by ROME----the big fact that the Jelly bean criminals MUST PERVERT in order to
justify their smelly behinds

they were not a - pharisee - than just a side issue bearing the corruption of judaism ... nor was judaism a centerpiece for their mission as the jewish response foretells.

All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” Matthew 27:24-25

rather their true mission was to reestablish the initial religion of antiquity reset at the time of noah - or their own version representing liberation theology, self determination from both the prevailing gov't and religious order those at that time desired and were willing to die for. truth be told.

 

[irosie91]

they were not a - pharisee - than just a side issue bearing the corruption of judaism ... nor was judaism a centerpiece for their mission as the jewish response foretells.



rather their true mission was to reestablish the initial religion of antiquity reset at the time of noah - or their own version representing liberation theology, self determination from both the prevailing gov't and religious order those at that time desired and were willing to die for. truth be told.

who is THEY? I mentioned Jesus----not a bunch of
airhead romans

 

[irosie91]

who is THEY? I mentioned Jesus----not a bunch of
airhead romans

PS----The Nicean council did not consist of jews and
was headed by THE EMPEROR OF ROME

 

[BreezeWood]

who is THEY? I mentioned Jesus----not a bunch of
airhead romans

- nor was judaism a centerpiece for their mission as the jewish response foretells.

sadly, in the end, the lonely spirit of a single person - hard not to guess who ... “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani”. seemingly abandoned by the heavens as well.

 

[irosie91]

sadly, in the end, the lonely spirit of a single person - hard not to guess who ... “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani”. seemingly abandoned by the heavens as well.

good point ---the victim of roman "justice" was
well versed in Hebrew Literature

 

[ninja007]

1) As Surada said, Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophesis:

a) All Jews will be gathered in Israel - hasn’t happened yet
b) The Messiah will build (or accomplish) the 3rd Temple - nope, still waiting
c) There will be worldwide peace: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation; neither shall man learn war anymore.” (From Isiah)


2) Jesus did not fulfill the personal attributes of the Messiah:

As Jews do not believe in Demi-gods or any Supreme Being other than the one and only G-d, the Messiah will be born of human parents - with a father descended from David. Since Christians say Jesus’ father was G-d, a concept foreign to Judaism, he of course does not fulfill this.


3) The Messiah will obey the Law, and lead the people to full Torah observance - as all commandments are binding forever. Jesus did not do this, and changed the law. He told Jews that kashrut was no longer necessary, and he violated the Sabbath.


4) Christians have mistranslated the “Suffering Servant” alluded to in the OT as Jesus, when it refers to Israel.

There’s more, but this is a start.

NOTE: I would like to have a respectful debate, and remind posters that this is Zone 1. Thank you.

Jesus isnt done yet.

 

[ninja007]

Is Yeshua/Jesus The prophesied one, The Messiah?​ In Jn. 5:39 he claimed he was the promised one the Messiah.That all scripture is written of him. How can we know he spoke the truth, how can we check what is being said. Well we need to look at the genealogy the family tree or line since the Messiah has a very specific lineage. From the beginning God established the genealogy and gave us its record so it would be one of the ways to identify him. Gen.3:15 tells us he would be from the seed of the woman. This is the only place this is mentioned since the seed is from the man. It also says he would crush (conquer) the serpents head. He would overcome Satan who introduced sin to mankind. This is all fulfilled by the virgin birth in Mt.1:16,18 Gen.9:26 tells us Canaan was cursed and Shem was blessed (Shem = name, Semitic people of the name) So he would come through the people of the name. Gen 12:1-3, 7 says he would come from the line of Abraham. So then this means the messiah needs to be a physical descendant of Abraham eliminating all other family lines. (Matt.1:1, Gal.3:8, 14, 16) Both Jews, Christians and Muslims are identified with the seed of Abraham. Abraham is told that in his seed all nations will be blessed. Gen.17:18-21, 21:12 Abraham had two sons Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael is from Hagar who is from Ham (Egyptian). |So now in Gen. 26 he separates the two and now he must come through Isaac (Heb.11:17-19). But then we find that Isaac had two sons Esau and Jacob (Numb.24:17-19)so then God eliminates another line by saying he will come through Jacob not Esau. So we find now that the messiah comes from the Jewish line as it narrows from Abraham Isaac to Jacob. Jacob had twelve sons of which only one would be picked so eleven are eliminated Gen 49 It gets even narrower that the Messiah had to come from the tribe of Judah. This is found in Genesis 49 (Matt.1:2 , Heb. 7:14-17) He will come from the tribe of Judah who is the 4th son of Jacob through Leah. so does not come through Rachel.Gen.29:35 He will come from the tribe of Judah which eliminates 11 other tribes. But not any tribe in Judah Isa.11:1 tells us from the many lines of Judah it would be from the line of Jesse. Yet he had 8 sons so 7 need to be eliminated . Jesse was the father of David 2 Sam. 7:12-17, ps.89:20-29, 35-36. The Messiah is to come through the house of David . The book of Matthew written to Jews makes the point that Jesus would come from the line of David who is from the line of Abraham (Mt.1:1). Then the line narrows even further where we find the Messiah will come from the line of Solomon who was David's son. 1 Chron.22:9 ;28:4-5 David had at the least 17 children but God chose only one, the son of David and Bathsheba.Ps.132:11 the fruit of David's body will be set upon the throne. (Romans 1:3 Messiahs of the seed of David) In Matthews account four woman are mentioned Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba. Tamar and Rahab were harlots, Bathsheba committed adultery and Rahab and Ruth were Gentiles. Women are rarely mentioned in the lineage records. These are for good reason, to show The birth would not be dependent on mans goodness and that he came to save sinners Gentiles as well Jews. Mary was a descendent from David through his son Nathan. Jesus could not be the real son of Joseph or he would have come from the line of Coniah. Jeremiah 22:24 tells us the line of Coniah son of Jehoiakim is cursed (Jeconiah the Je is left off his name because it relates to the name Lord .He was so evil it was left off). The decree was that no descendent of this wicked king would prosper (vs.30). If Jesus were the actual son of joseph he would have been under this curse. the virgin birth solves all this. Joseph adopts Jesus as his step father and he inherits the legal right to the throne. The word ' of the' appears in all the genealogies listed in the book of Luke except one, that is of Joseph. This exception to this is because of his line connected to Jer.22. He is included because of his marriage to Mary. Matthews genealogy makes it clear as it is not attributed to Joseph but Mary. Location The family line was established but now we need to go to the location. God specifically picked one place, Bethlehem, for the Messiah to be born Mic.5:2. So now even if one is born somewhere else from the line of David he can’t be the Messiah. Nazareth or Jerusalem is eliminated Mt.2:1. There were two Bethlehem's. This Town was given to the tribe of Judah it was the place where King David was born it is the "house of bread". How fitting that the bread of life would come from this house. But this is a particular area in Bethlehem , Ephratah (the sheepfold) which narrows the possibilities even more. This is where the shepherds watched over their flocks as we see them doing when the angel comes to them and announces their Kings birth. How will he be born ? He will be born of a virgin without any human father, the seed of the woman Isa.7:14 (MT.1:22-23) and also from David's line. Joseph adopted him and Jesus becomes the legal heir to the throne. Now lets go to the time of his coming. He will be born before the tribe of Judah loses its identity. Gen 49:10 - "The scepter shall not depart from Judah nor the rulers staff from between his feet until the SHILO comes and to Him be the obedience of the people." Shilo was one of the places the Ark of the Covenant dwelt . Every tribe of Israel had its own scepter a staff with its name inscribed on it. The scepter represents its judicial authority . The removal of the scepter occurred when Herod the Great, who was not a Jew became King and the Sanhedrin had its power limited. Both of these happened during the lifetime of Jesus. The name Shiloh is synonymous with the name of the Messiah ( Talmud Sanh.98B) It means WHO IS IT. So according to this prophecy the Messiah had to come before the scepter was removed from Judah. Numbers 24:17 "I see Him, but not now; I behold Him, but not near; a Star shall come out of Jacob; a Scepter shall rise out of Israel, and batter the brow of Moab, and destroy all the sons of tumult." This is a vision which spans over 1,500 years. This star was not something seen in the sky, but a person coming from the lineage of Jacob who has glory. Jacob who birthed Israel the nation, Salvation will come from the Jews. But there is even more facts from scripture to define the time of his coming Dan.9:24-27 tells us the Messiah will appear before the destruction of the city of Jerusalem and the temple which occurred In 70 AD. Daniel received his prophecy after the first destruction of the temple in 586 BC. so Daniels writing in 9:24-27 of the Messiah appearing, of being "cut off" was future. The city would be destroyed afterward along with its genealogical records. So whoever is going to be Messiah must come before this all transpires. The record shows 483 years from 445 B.C. and before the destruction of the 2nd temple in 70 AD. Getting back to what God promised David when he dies, "I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom (2 Samuel 7:12). The first verse in the book of Matthew (New Testament) records the fulfillment of the prophecy of his coming from the house of David . The book of the generation of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham (Matthew 1:1) The angel Gabriel appeared to Mary he announced Jesus’ birth also confirming the prophecy Luke 1:31,32 "You will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David."​ All the prophecies were fulfilled literally and exactly. They were literal people, literal places and fulfilled in the minutest of detail. Jesus did not control of any of these prophecies of where he was born nor did not choose his own parents or place of birth or who his mother was or the time. God the Father ordained all these specific events before the foundation of the world and slowly revealed them to man through the Jewish prophets by his Spirit. The Scriptures are clear​ IS HE YOUR MESSIAH ? Is Jesus the Messiah Is Jesus the Messiah or are we to look for another. letusreason.org ​