Americans afraid of China

[Dayton3]

Dayton3​

But NOT the way you tend to think they are afraid.

I was reading an old (several years ago) international policy magazine and came upon an interview with a mid ranking officer in the U.S. military. The issue of course U.S./China competition and relations.

He was asked point blank if he (and others) were "afraid" of China. His answer was very interesting.

He said he was NOT afraid the U.S. would lose a war with China.

He said he WAS afraid the U.S. would WIN a war with China.
When asked to explain he said that in order to win a war with China the U.S. might have to kill tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of Chinese. He said he "didn't sign up to commit mass murder on a scale that dwarfs Hitler".

 

[Hang on Sloopy]

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]Dayton3​

But NOT the way you tend to think they are afraid.

I was reading an old (several years ago) international policy magazine and came upon an interview with a mid ranking officer in the U.S. military. The issue of course U.S./China competition and relations.

He was asked point blank if he (and others) were "afraid" of China. His answer was very interesting.

He said he was NOT afraid the U.S. would lose a war with China.

He said he WAS afraid the U.S. would WIN a war with China.
When asked to explain he said that in order to win a war with China the U.S. might have to kill tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of Chinese. He said he "didn't sign up to commit mass murder on a scale that dwarfs Hitler".

I have no idea why we would be afraid of men with peckers the size of a Vienna Sausage

 

[Otis Mayfield]

We're China's biggest customer.

I really doubt there's going to be a war.

 

[Mushroom]

We're China's biggest customer.

France was Germany's biggest customer before WWI and WWII. The UK was #2.

The US was Japan's biggest customer before WWII.

Outside of oil, Iraq's biggest trading partner in 1990 was Kuwait.

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

 

[Mac-7]

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]Dayton3​

But NOT the way you tend to think they are afraid.

I was reading an old (several years ago) international policy magazine and came upon an interview with a mid ranking officer in the U.S. military. The issue of course U.S./China competition and relations.

He was asked point blank if he (and others) were "afraid" of China. His answer was very interesting.

He said he was NOT afraid the U.S. would lose a war with China.

He said he WAS afraid the U.S. would WIN a war with China.
When asked to explain he said that in order to win a war with China the U.S. might have to kill tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of Chinese. He said he "didn't sign up to commit mass murder on a scale that dwarfs Hitler".

No doubt obama put that fool in a high position at the pentagon

 

[Ringel05]

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]Dayton3​

But NOT the way you tend to think they are afraid.

I was reading an old (several years ago) international policy magazine and came upon an interview with a mid ranking officer in the U.S. military. The issue of course U.S./China competition and relations.

He was asked point blank if he (and others) were "afraid" of China. His answer was very interesting.

He said he was NOT afraid the U.S. would lose a war with China.

He said he WAS afraid the U.S. would WIN a war with China.
When asked to explain he said that in order to win a war with China the U.S. might have to kill tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of Chinese. He said he "didn't sign up to commit mass murder on a scale that dwarfs Hitler".

Based on his response I would guess that he had no problem with China killing tens or hundreds of millions of us as long as he didn't have to uphold his sworn duty to defend us........

 

[1srelluc]

Interesting.....I knew a WW-2/Korean War vet (Marine) that helped repulse a Chi-Com human wave attack. The dead numbered over 2K in front of his Company alone....Many were wounded that froze to death.

He told me at the time it was just one of those kill or be killed things.....Till they searched dead for documents and such and saw the dead's physical condition. He said it was just pitiful the condition those men were in. Every one of them he saw was suffering from frostbite/malnutrition before their deaths.

He said that the rations they carried would not amount to more than a couple of ounces of rice and some kind of fish paste.

He said that he thought about that part of it all the time and wished they did not have to had killed so many of them.

 

[Flopper]

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]Dayton3​

But NOT the way you tend to think they are afraid.

I was reading an old (several years ago) international policy magazine and came upon an interview with a mid ranking officer in the U.S. military. The issue of course U.S./China competition and relations.

He was asked point blank if he (and others) were "afraid" of China. His answer was very interesting.

He said he was NOT afraid the U.S. would lose a war with China.

He said he WAS afraid the U.S. would WIN a war with China.
When asked to explain he said that in order to win a war with China the U.S. might have to kill tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of Chinese. He said he "didn't sign up to commit mass murder on a scale that dwarfs Hitler".

That is an interesting comment. However, it's hard to imagine a war with China since the US and our allies are a major source of wealth in China. Without us, those freeways, skyscrapers, shopping centers, and giant apartment buildings would cease to exist.

 

[whitehall]

"Military" is a poor forum to be discussing the relationship between the U.S. and China.

 

[Hellokitty]

That is an interesting comment. However, it's hard to imagine a war with China since the US and our allies are a major source of wealth in China. Without us, those freeways, skyscrapers, shopping centers, and giant apartment buildings would cease to exist.

If China beat the US in a war you don't think ever other country would give China whatever they asked for?

 

[Flopper]

If China beat the US in a war you don't think ever other country would give China whatever they asked for?

If China beat the US in war, every other country hopefully would be offering help to the survivors and prayers for the hundreds of millions that died in nuclear attacks. With the US atomic stockpile of over 3700 missiles in our arsenal, about 10 time the Chinese arsenal, you can bet the US would certainly use nuclear weapons. Our stockpile of nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles is the only thing that evens the match with China's army of 2.8 million.

 

[Silver Cat]

If China beat the US in war, every other country hopefully would be offering help to the survivors and prayers for the hundreds of millions that died in nuclear attacks. With the US atomic stockpile of over 3700 missiles in our arsenal, about 10 time the Chinese arsenal, you can bet the US would certainly use nuclear weapons. Our stockpile of nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles is the only thing that evens the match with China's army of 2.8 million.

You see, for the Deterrence Type I doesn't matter how many nukes do you have before war. What's really important - how many of them will survive a sudden counter-force attack, how many of survivors will penetrate his ABD, and how good your enemy is prepared to alleviation of the consequences of your attack.

What if China+Russia beats the USA by a sudden counter-force attack, destroying all siloses, all bombers and significant part of SSBNs (including all at hard duty)? And then they will give rather morbid choice - surrender now and minimize the loses (including Russian and Chinese losses) by refusing of the retaliation strike, or try to retaliate and be totally destroyed by his third, counter-value strike.

And don't forget that the most of official estimations of the Chinese nuclear arsenal are based on the pretty false presumption that Russia don't sell them nuclear weapons or weapon-grade plutonium.

 

[Flopper]

You see, for the Deterrence Type I doesn't matter how many nukes do you have before war. What's really important - how many of them will survive a sudden counter-force attack, how many of survivors will penetrate his ABD, and how good your enemy is prepared to alleviation of the consequences of your attack.

What if China+Russia beats the USA by a sudden counter-force attack, destroying all siloses, all bombers and significant part of SSBNs (including all at hard duty)? And then they will give rather morbid choice - surrender now and minimize the loses (including Russian and Chinese losses) by refusing of the retaliation strike, or try to retaliate and be totally destroyed by his third, counter-value strike.

And don't forget that the most of official estimations of the Chinese nuclear arsenal are based on the pretty false presumption that Russia don't sell them nuclear weapons or weapon-grade plutonium.

It seems highly unlikely the Russians and or Chinese would launch an attack and even more unlikely that US would fail to react with a full force counteract. Any such a nuclear war would be so devastating to both sides, that any projection of what would follow would be pure speculation which I have no interest in.

 

[Mushroom]

And don't forget that the most of official estimations of the Chinese nuclear arsenal are based on the pretty false presumption that Russia don't sell them nuclear weapons or weapon-grade plutonium.

Not really.

You see, it does not matter if Russia sold them anything or not. The estimate is based as it is in most issues like this on the number of delivery systems they have.

DF-4: 10-15
DF-5: 20
DF-31: 20-25
DF-41: 2-10

That's it, that is all the warheads they can deliver. It does not matter if they have 1,000 or 1,000,000. That is all the ICBMs they have.

Discussing Chinese SSBNs is rather pointless, as they have almost no sea time. They spend 99% of their time tied up at the wharf, and most question if they could even reach much past their own coastal waters.

The same with their bombers. Their only long range bomber is the H-6, a domestic copy of the Korean War era Tu-16. Those things could not realistically even reach the US, let alone actually attack it.

So at most, China can launch between 52 and 70 missiles. That's it.

 

[Mushroom]

It seems highly unlikely the Russians and or Chinese would launch an attack and even more unlikely that US would fail to react with a full force counteract. Any such a nuclear war would be so devastating to both sides, that any projection of what would follow would be pure speculation which I have no interest in.

I do not think Russia would do it, they are not that kind of crazy.

And if China did it, it would be the same as them slitting their own throats. Even if they launched everything they had at the US, it would really only be a pin-prick. The US on the other hand could lay waste to every major city, port, industrial center, and still have missiles left over to go after things like dams, rail centers, and just about anything they wanted to hit.

 

[Flopper]

I do not think Russia would do it, they are not that kind of crazy.

And if China did it, it would be the same as them slitting their own throats. Even if they launched everything they had at the US, it would really only be a pin-prick. The US on the other hand could lay waste to every major city, port, industrial center, and still have missiles left over to go after things like dams, rail centers, and just about anything they wanted to hit.

China has never fought a war in a country that does not border China. The US has not fought a war as close in a bordering country in over 170 years.

China simply is not prepared to fight a war past bordering countries. China has two aircraft carriers and US has 11. They lack sufficient amphibious watercraft for troop landings. Their longest range bomber has a range of 3500 miles where the US is 8,000 miles. The distance between China and the US is 7500 miles. They have 6 nuclear subs and US has 68. Their greatest strength is their 2.5 million man army, however they lack the capability to transport them past bordering countries.

China's military strategy is defensive in nature which is well fitted to their foreign policy which in effect is to dormmate world trade by being price competitive.

 

[Silver Cat]

Not really.

You see, it does not matter if Russia sold them anything or not. The estimate is based as it is in most issues like this on the number of delivery systems they have.

DF-4: 10-15
DF-5: 20
DF-31: 20-25
DF-41: 2-10

That's it, that is all the warheads they can deliver. It does not matter if they have 1,000 or 1,000,000. That is all the ICBMs they have.

Discussing Chinese SSBNs is rather pointless, as they have almost no sea time. They spend 99% of their time tied up at the wharf, and most question if they could even reach much past their own coastal waters.

The same with their bombers. Their only long range bomber is the H-6, a domestic copy of the Korean War era Tu-16. Those things could not realistically even reach the US, let alone actually attack it.

So at most, China can launch between 52 and 70 missiles. That's it.

Your information is terribly outdated.
They already have roughly 100 ICBMs and are building 350-400 more siloses.

China’s nuclear missile silo expansion: From minimum deterrence to medium deterrence

This summer, two nongovernmental organizations—our own included—disclosed construction of what appears to be hundreds of new missile silos in central China. How many silos? Why is China building so many? What does it mean for Chinese nuclear policy? And what to do about it?

thebulletin.org

400 DF-41s with up to ten MIRVs each - is something 4000 nukes.

And yes, don't forget about possibility of Russian "Li Xi-Qings" - it's not difficult to paint Chinese stars on the wings of the Russian Tu-95s with Kh-101s. Russian planes, Russian ordnance, Russian pilots but Chinese responsibility.

 

[Silver Cat]

China has never fought a war in a country that does not border China. The US has not fought a war as close in a bordering country in over 170 years.

China simply is not prepared to fight a war past bordering countries. China has two aircraft carriers and US has 11. They lack sufficient amphibious watercraft for troop landings. Their longest range bomber has a range of 3500 miles where the US is 8,000 miles. The distance between China and the US is 7500 miles. They have 6 nuclear subs and US has 68. Their greatest strength is their 2.5 million man army, however they lack the capability to transport them past bordering countries.

China's military strategy is defensive in nature which is well fitted to their foreign policy which in effect is to dormmate world trade by being price competitive.

Nobody has an experience in the modern nuclear war. But seems that Russia+China are better prepared for it than the USA+UK+(may be) France.
And if they are better prepared - they can escalate a conflict.

 

[frigidweirdo]

[/HEADING]
[HEADING=3]Dayton3​

But NOT the way you tend to think they are afraid.

I was reading an old (several years ago) international policy magazine and came upon an interview with a mid ranking officer in the U.S. military. The issue of course U.S./China competition and relations.

He was asked point blank if he (and others) were "afraid" of China. His answer was very interesting.

He said he was NOT afraid the U.S. would lose a war with China.

He said he WAS afraid the U.S. would WIN a war with China.
When asked to explain he said that in order to win a war with China the U.S. might have to kill tens of millions or even hundreds of millions of Chinese. He said he "didn't sign up to commit mass murder on a scale that dwarfs Hitler".

America creates its enemies. "America" being the rich who control it. Want to invade small oil rich country like Iraq? Well, just make people want to invade.

The death of the USSR was a disaster for the Republicans. They cheered their victory and then got Clinton for eight years. Then they got back into the White House and immediately went after the Muslims, but because of support for the Saudis they can't go full boom again Muslims... but China... now there's an enemy they can like.

 

[Mushroom]

400 DF-41s with up to ten MIRVs each - is something 4000 nukes.

OMG!

They only have between 2 and 10 of those missiles!

You really do not have any grasp of reality, do you? You simply make things up and spit them out,

Yes, and the US could build 1.5 billion nukes, One for every person in China, and a few left over.

See how this works? You can not simply make up a number that has absolutely no connection with reality and expect it to be believed.