America is reaching a boiling point no longer a melting pot

[BOBO]

Libertarian values through respect for Constitutional law & INDIVIDUAL rights to live ones own life without burdening others... is what is needed. Not all the left view capitalism as greedy. I associate with a LOT of people that identify with the Democratic party that support individual rights/liberties. These Dems I speak of are not big government, tax & social program mentality folks.
These Dems I speak of are hard working, non union employed & personally responsible people. Their major gripes with the GOP are with the RELIGIOUS RIGHT cramming down their values down the Dems throats through instituting controlling & non constitutional legislation into law. For these Dems the religious right is to them what the big government Dem statists are to the Repubs.
I've managed to get some of these Dems involved in our Libertarian party as members, but they remain terrified of the religious right, which I can't blame them one bit. If not Ron Paul then the only other answer at current is our Libertarian party. Both the GOP/DNC are leading their constituents down a path of polarized destruction through the "good guy/bad guy", "us vs them" mentality. Tragically, this has been going on so long that the road back may well be impossible to find for the opposing constituency of the two major parties... ultimately leading America into a collapsed & nightmarish police state similar to Joe Stalin's Communist Russia.

the left truly believes that conservatives are greedy capitalist that care only for themselves ,and the right truly believes that liberals are anti capitalist ,Godless socialist that are trying to destroy our country !!! the hatred between these two groups is reaching a boiling point !!! is there anyway to avoid a civil war ??

 

[diptherio]

Where, oh where, are you getting your info? I've been involved in Occupy and following a lot of the goings on in the Movement around the country. 1) There is no list of demands...everyone has their own, but mostly the Movement now is about highlighting the corruption of multi-national corporations and the government, working hand-in-glove to enrich the very top of the income spectrum, and 2) I've never heard any of these demands from occupiers I've talked to or the Occupy websites I've visited. Reigning in skyrocketing tuitions at Public Universities, yes, but not free college. I've heard lots of people, left and right, talking about ending/restructuring the Fed, but none talking $20/hr. minimum wage. I'm sure some people in Occupy are saying this stuff, but it sure isn't the majority.

I'm a lefty who's been talking up Ron Paul since 2008 (though I don't think changing the captain of the sinking vessel will solve all our problems). The TEA Party folks and the Occupiers have a lot more in common than either the DNC or the RNC would like us to think. It's that old ploy, divide and conquer, and some of folks just keep falling for it.

 

[yidnar]

Where, oh where, are you getting your info? I've been involved in Occupy and following a lot of the goings on in the Movement around the country. 1) There is no list of demands...everyone has their own, but mostly the Movement now is about highlighting the corruption of multi-national corporations and the government, working hand-in-glove to enrich the very top of the income spectrum, and 2) I've never heard any of these demands from occupiers I've talked to or the Occupy websites I've visited. Reigning in skyrocketing tuitions at Public Universities, yes, but not free college. I've heard lots of people, left and right, talking about ending/restructuring the Fed, but none talking $20/hr. minimum wage. I'm sure some people in Occupy are saying this stuff, but it sure isn't the majority.

I'm a lefty who's been talking up Ron Paul since 2008 (though I don't think changing the captain of the sinking vessel will solve all our problems). The TEA Party folks and the Occupiers have a lot more in common than either the DNC or the RNC would like us to think. It's that old ploy, divide and conquer, and some of folks just keep falling for it.

i believe in hard work,and personal responsiblity. i believe that though some people are dealt a better hand of cards than other,being angry about it is childish !! i saw a pair of 9's beat 3 jacks in a poker game !!! it's not always the hand you are delt but how you play them !! and libbs complain to the dealer and the opposing player about their pair of 9's therefore loosing to the 3 jacks !! i have nothing in common with liberal traitors !!

 

[eots]

The shit must hit the fan if we wont do it nature will

 

[yidnar]

The shit must hit the fan if we wont do it nature will

the shit must hit the trail !!! and it will in 2012 !!

 

[Steelplate]

Wow you can answer your own Questions. Nice.

Guess I don't even have to say anything about their Demands for a 20 Dollar an Hour Minimum Wage, Free College, Wages for not working, Free Health Care. Etc.

Did you not notice that, or do you just not think those ideas are a tad Crazy.
My god Raise the Minimum Wage to 20 Bucks an hour? How much do you think it's gonna cost to buy a weeks worth of groceries when we Regulate Entry level Pay out of Existence and Force Employers to pay even totally unskilled, Uneducated Entry level Positions over 40 Thousand Dollars a year.

And that's the problem.

You think that one person having 48 billion dollars is not a problem.

No it isn't.
The world needs ditch diggers as much as it needs brilliant minds. Such as the one that created our ability to own a home computer and be able to do the things we now can do.
Face it. You believe in equality of outcome.
Each job, idea, etc has a value.
That's a fact.

No... we also know that the world needs ditch diggers.... we just feel that a ditch digger should be paid enough to support a family.... you think they should live in squalor and they should be thankful for the squalor they have.

 

[yidnar]

And that's the problem.

You think that one person having 48 billion dollars is not a problem.

No it isn't.
The world needs ditch diggers as much as it needs brilliant minds. Such as the one that created our ability to own a home computer and be able to do the things we now can do.
Face it. You believe in equality of outcome.
Each job, idea, etc has a value.
That's a fact.

No... we also know that the world needs ditch diggers.... we just feel that a ditch digger should be paid enough to support a family.... you think they should live in squalor and they should be thankful for the squalor they have.

a young man digging ditches on a construction site makes about 13 $ an hour !!! how much do you want to pay them ??...i know !! lets pay them 30 $ an hour !!! then everybody will be digging fucking ditches !!! no doctors,not dentist ,no computer programers ,but man well have a lot of fucking ditches !!

 

[Steelplate]

Oh I fully disagree with them on just about every point they have. But they are true Americans for standing up for what they believe. If we all did this America would be a much better place.

What points do you disagree with? Here are some of the points I'm getting out of their movement to Occupy Wall Street:

• In 1965 CEOs were paid 26 times that of their average worker. In 1980 40 times. In 1989, it was 72 times. In 1999 it had risen to 310 times, and today, according to data from the accounting firm, Towers Perrin, survey it has reached 500 times.
  
• Banks were bailed out by the US Taxpayer. They wouldn't exist if not for the 99% of us making sure they didn't lose their job and yet the banks aren't lending so that businesses can hire are they?
  
• Companies bailed out by the US Taxpayer aren't hiring...in the United States.
  
• The top 0.1 percent of the population (those making about $1.7 million or more) saw the sharpest increase in income share, taking home 2.6% of the nation’s earnings in 1975 and 10.4% in 2008. The wealthiest 10 percent earned almost the same amount of income as the rest of the country combined. The top 20 percent of people have 85 percent of the wealth.
  
• During the recent financial crisis, the top 1% of earners saw their wealth INCREASE while the bottom 90% saw their wealth decrease.

So which of their points do you disagree with?

Market rates dictate what you have to pay to get people that can do the job. I can't hire a GOOD pc tech for less than $15/hr, or else I'll get some dumbass who can't meet the quality needed.

Beyond that, corp execs are saying that the reason they don't locate in the states is not because of wages, it's because of the extra cost from regulations it takes to do so. So they go overseas. It's simple, to keep jobs here, we have to make an environment that will bring them here. I'm not advocating letting them run rampant, but at least take off the shackles and compete with these other countries. You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, and to keep putting more and more crap on those that invest, and create business just won't do it.

On the other hand I do agree that corruption on wall st and in the banks needs to end. BUT you also have to go after the gov't. All politicians are corrupt, every single one, and they are in bed with the banks and wall street, yes even Obama.

Why are the politicians corrupt? C'mon...think..Why are the Politicians in bed with Banks and Wall Street? Because they are all scum sucking pigs? You really think that way? Or is it perhaps because this is the system we have? We have a system where more often than not.. the dude with the most money wins. Get the damned money out of the political process. Righties don't want that because they've been told that money=speech and having publicly funded election is the equivalent of having their 1st Amendment rights denied... which is a bunch of bullshit... you're "freedom of speech" is in your vote.

 

[yidnar]

What points do you disagree with? Here are some of the points I'm getting out of their movement to Occupy Wall Street:

• In 1965 CEOs were paid 26 times that of their average worker. In 1980 40 times. In 1989, it was 72 times. In 1999 it had risen to 310 times, and today, according to data from the accounting firm, Towers Perrin, survey it has reached 500 times.
  
• Banks were bailed out by the US Taxpayer. They wouldn't exist if not for the 99% of us making sure they didn't lose their job and yet the banks aren't lending so that businesses can hire are they?
  
• Companies bailed out by the US Taxpayer aren't hiring...in the United States.
  
• The top 0.1 percent of the population (those making about $1.7 million or more) saw the sharpest increase in income share, taking home 2.6% of the nation’s earnings in 1975 and 10.4% in 2008. The wealthiest 10 percent earned almost the same amount of income as the rest of the country combined. The top 20 percent of people have 85 percent of the wealth.
  
• During the recent financial crisis, the top 1% of earners saw their wealth INCREASE while the bottom 90% saw their wealth decrease.

So which of their points do you disagree with?

Market rates dictate what you have to pay to get people that can do the job. I can't hire a GOOD pc tech for less than $15/hr, or else I'll get some dumbass who can't meet the quality needed.

Beyond that, corp execs are saying that the reason they don't locate in the states is not because of wages, it's because of the extra cost from regulations it takes to do so. So they go overseas. It's simple, to keep jobs here, we have to make an environment that will bring them here. I'm not advocating letting them run rampant, but at least take off the shackles and compete with these other countries. You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, and to keep putting more and more crap on those that invest, and create business just won't do it.

On the other hand I do agree that corruption on wall st and in the banks needs to end. BUT you also have to go after the gov't. All politicians are corrupt, every single one, and they are in bed with the banks and wall street, yes even Obama.

Why are the politicians corrupt? C'mon...think..Why are the Politicians in bed with Banks and Wall Street? Because they are all scum sucking pigs? You really think that way? Or is it perhaps because this is the system we have? We have a system where more often than not.. the dude with the most money wins. Get the damned money out of the political process. Righties don't want that because they've been told that money=speech and having publicly funded election is the equivalent of having their 1st Amendment rights denied... which is a bunch of bullshit... you're "freedom of speech" is in your vote.

the majority of millionaires in congress are democrats !!

 

[Steelplate]

the sad sad truth is the left is starting as predicted the blame game and class warfare to divide and destroy America from within !! WARNING !!!!!......the left has no love for America,it's sovereignty or the free market !!! they hate capitalism to it's core !!! they are the greatest enemy to America to date !!! we as Americans most band together against the left and vote them out of power !!! and we must prepare ourselves for the escalating violence and be ready to put an abrupt stop to the anarchy they are trying to instill !!

You are a racist douchebag...I've seen your posts..You can't wait for your "civil war" to happen so you can kill you some minorities legally. So you come on here in hopes of egging it on.

By the way.. you lie. the left does not hate the free market.. we just know that the market isn't free. We don't hate Capitalism... we just know that the current form of Capitalism is actually Profiteering at the expense of the vast majority of the American People.

If you think that progressiveness = Totalitarianism... then I can safely say that Conservatism is the equivalent of Fascism and hatred.

 

[Steelplate]

Market rates dictate what you have to pay to get people that can do the job. I can't hire a GOOD pc tech for less than $15/hr, or else I'll get some dumbass who can't meet the quality needed.

Beyond that, corp execs are saying that the reason they don't locate in the states is not because of wages, it's because of the extra cost from regulations it takes to do so. So they go overseas. It's simple, to keep jobs here, we have to make an environment that will bring them here. I'm not advocating letting them run rampant, but at least take off the shackles and compete with these other countries. You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, and to keep putting more and more crap on those that invest, and create business just won't do it.

On the other hand I do agree that corruption on wall st and in the banks needs to end. BUT you also have to go after the gov't. All politicians are corrupt, every single one, and they are in bed with the banks and wall street, yes even Obama.

Why are the politicians corrupt? C'mon...think..Why are the Politicians in bed with Banks and Wall Street? Because they are all scum sucking pigs? You really think that way? Or is it perhaps because this is the system we have? We have a system where more often than not.. the dude with the most money wins. Get the damned money out of the political process. Righties don't want that because they've been told that money=speech and having publicly funded election is the equivalent of having their 1st Amendment rights denied... which is a bunch of bullshit... you're "freedom of speech" is in your vote.

the majority of millionaires in congress are democrats !!

Oh bullshit...Turn the fuckin' channel.

 

[Steelplate]

No it isn't.
The world needs ditch diggers as much as it needs brilliant minds. Such as the one that created our ability to own a home computer and be able to do the things we now can do.
Face it. You believe in equality of outcome.
Each job, idea, etc has a value.
That's a fact.

No... we also know that the world needs ditch diggers.... we just feel that a ditch digger should be paid enough to support a family.... you think they should live in squalor and they should be thankful for the squalor they have.

a young man digging ditches on a construction site makes about 13 $ an hour !!! how much do you want to pay them ??...i know !! lets pay them 30 $ an hour !!! then everybody will be digging fucking ditches !!! no doctors,not dentist ,no computer programers ,but man well have a lot of fucking ditches !!

where are these $13/hour ditchdiggers? Maybe in the Public Sector...But no way in hell is it happening in the Private sector... that's a minimum wage job.

 

[Unkotare]

[ Or is it perhaps because this is the system we have? We have a system where more often than not.. the dude with the most money wins. Get the damned money out of the political process. Righties don't want that because they've been told that money=speech and having publicly funded election is the equivalent of having their 1st Amendment rights denied... which is a bunch of bullshit... you're "freedom of speech" is in your vote.

Sounds like your argument is with the Supreme Court, not some message board. Go take it up with them. I'm sure that if you let them know how much more you understand of Constitutional law than they do they will adopt whatever position you demand.

 

[Steelplate]

[ Or is it perhaps because this is the system we have? We have a system where more often than not.. the dude with the most money wins. Get the damned money out of the political process. Righties don't want that because they've been told that money=speech and having publicly funded election is the equivalent of having their 1st Amendment rights denied... which is a bunch of bullshit... you're "freedom of speech" is in your vote.

Sounds like your argument is with the Supreme Court, not some message board. Go take it up with them. I'm sure that if you let them know how much more you understand of Constitutional law than they do they will adopt whatever position you demand.

Really? funny how Conservatives are all for unlimited anonymous donations that could even be coming from outside the country.... but when it comes to organized labor making donations, they want to squash it. Hypocrites.

If you don't think that one of the biggest reasons for our current situation is because of "favor buying" and Politicians being relegated to the role of puppets of special interests(unions INCLUDED), then you are a fool.

 

[Unkotare]

[ Or is it perhaps because this is the system we have? We have a system where more often than not.. the dude with the most money wins. Get the damned money out of the political process. Righties don't want that because they've been told that money=speech and having publicly funded election is the equivalent of having their 1st Amendment rights denied... which is a bunch of bullshit... you're "freedom of speech" is in your vote.

Sounds like your argument is with the Supreme Court, not some message board. Go take it up with them. I'm sure that if you let them know how much more you understand of Constitutional law than they do they will adopt whatever position you demand.

Really? funny how Conservatives are all for unlimited anonymous donations that could even be coming from outside the country.... .

Stop right there. What 'conservatives' are you talking about? Who, specifically? ALL conservatives? Most? Some? Show me one prominent conservative politician "all for" donations from outside the country. You are just being typically dishonest again, you low-life scum.

 

[Katzndogz]

Just reading this thread answers the question. There is no way a civil war in this country can be avoided. I've been watching it bubble for years. Both sides are too ideologically divided. That division too wide and too deep to find any point of compromise. All the left wants is for the nation to do whatever they say. Just follow their dictates. What they want is just the best for everyone. It's not going to happen. The left ratcheted up the rhetoric until the only thing they had was to take it to the streets. That didn't work. The answer is to get more violent. This will climb higher and higher until it explodes.

All the nation has to do is unite with the marxists, or the paulites or the right. There is not going to be unity. There is only going to be civil war. Anyone who thinks differently is optimistically delusional.

 

[Unkotare]

If you don't think that one of the biggest reasons for our current situation is because of "favor buying" and Politicians being relegated to the role of puppets of special interests(unions INCLUDED), then you are a fool.

All that bitching and you didn't address my comments at all. Why bother to quote them then?

 

[Unkotare]

Just reading this thread answers the question. There is no way a civil war in this country can be avoided. I've been watching it bubble for years. Both sides are too ideologically divided. That division too wide and too deep to find any point of compromise. All the left wants is for the nation to do whatever they say. Just follow their dictates. What they want is just the best for everyone. It's not going to happen. The left ratcheted up the rhetoric until the only thing they had was to take it to the streets. That didn't work. The answer is to get more violent. This will climb higher and higher until it explodes.

All the nation has to do is unite with the marxists, or the paulites or the right. There is not going to be unity. There is only going to be civil war. Anyone who thinks differently is optimistically delusional.

Calm the fuck down, drama queen. Politics has always been contentious in America. Go change your diaper.

 

[G.T.]

There will not be a civil war because most of America is not left or right, they don't even follow politics. Nothing is brewing outside of obsessiveville.

 

[LoneLaugher]

What are you nutters waiting for? Stop talking and DO SOMETHNG already. The Marxists are taking over! You have no time to waste.