Allen West is a disgrace.

[slukasiewski]

23 years in the Army as a Military Intelligence professional, active duty and reserves, with service in Desert Storm and Afghanistan, stateside callups at the Pentagon and elsewhere.

My dick is bigger than yours if you want to compare service records.

Well, in my 23 years in the Navy - we always said "The Army was reserved for dummies."

How true you make that point.

For a supposed 23 year veteran to NOT know the difference between an Article 15 and a Court Martial is truly astonishing.

You really are a dummy.

Crawl back into your cubicle now.

What have I written that leads you to think I don't know the difference between an Article 15 and a court martial? Exact quote please. I'm honestly puzzled by this.

What's sad is that a 23 year veteran thinks an Article 15 is a misdemeanor when we don't have misdemeanors in the UCMJ. Show me one reg or law that states that. Here's some help UCMJ

I was implying an Article 15 equates to a misdemeanor.
Did you make it past Spec 4 in your 23 years? What were you, a ******* cook?
Idiot.

 

[High_Gravity]

Lt Col Allen West an American hero.

 

[slukasiewski]

I think it depends, in the Air Force nowadays an Article can be a career ender because unless you have an understanding commander who will give you a second chance, you will be ineligible for promotion and reenlistment, thus your career is over.

It is possible that a bar to reenlistment can be part of an article 15. But I don't believe an officer enlists.... They are Commissioned. And therefore would have to have their commission withdrawn. LTC West Retired with an Honorable Discharge. There was no disgrace to it. A little personal shame maybe. But you would have to ask him about that.

Oh your right I was talking about as far as enlisted folks, I am not sure how a Article 15 effects an officer but I have seen some resign their commissions after getting one because it makes it alot harder to put on rank once you have a 15.

It's definately a career killer. In the military - for a senior NCO or an Officer. For some young punk who gets out after 4 years, they can have 50 NJPs and it'll never show up on their civilian record. Totally NON-JUDICIAL.

 

[Cal]

Apparently not, as no real connection was ever found. And since he had the means and ability to do things properly through trained 35M or 35L soldiers, he should have. Dragging in a police officer and doing an illegal interrogation is not the way to protect your men.

Maybe if you read a little more you would find out that attacks against his men stopped after this incident and didn't start again until after he was relieved. Hmmm, didn't your talking points cover that little bit of information?

There is no justification for torture. Not in war. Not anywhere. It's wrong. But even if it weren't wrong, it's useless. You get bad information as often as you'll get good. Because they have no incentive to tell you the truth. They just want to tell you anything that will make you stop torturing them.

You read until you find the information you like, then you stop. Attacks slowed down and then they picked up again later. Is there anything to indicate that this had anything to do with torturing someone? Quite the opposite.

THE STRUGGLE FOR IRAQ - INTERROGATIONS - THE STRUGGLE FOR IRAQ - INTERROGATIONS - How Colonel Risked His Career By Menacing Detainee and Lost - NYTimes.com

"At least one man named by Mr. Hamoodi was taken into custody, according to testimony, and his home was searched. No plans for attacks on Americans or weapons were found. Colonel West testified that he did not know whether 'any corroboration' of a plot was ever found, adding: 'At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi.'"
Now, as to his motivations. Protecting his men. I seriously doubt that. I think he was terrified of dying and trying to save his own skin. You can't be sure what's going on inside someone's head. But look at the narrative. Someone tells him that there's going to be an assassination attempt on him. He doesn't take it seriously. A week later, a humvee that he was scheduled to be in but wasn't gets attacked. Next thing you know he's hauling people in and torturing them, when he's never been trained to interrogate. Hasn't even seen an interrogation before. Looks to me like he was desperately trying to protect himself.

.. But that can't be.. Because the attacks stopped and stuff!.. I mean..

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't care if you were at Harvard for 23 years, you're still one of the biggest morons on the board

Jillian, Maggie Mae and you all belie that claim, Scheiß Maus.

 

[High_Gravity]

It is possible that a bar to reenlistment can be part of an article 15. But I don't believe an officer enlists.... They are Commissioned. And therefore would have to have their commission withdrawn. LTC West Retired with an Honorable Discharge. There was no disgrace to it. A little personal shame maybe. But you would have to ask him about that.

Oh your right I was talking about as far as enlisted folks, I am not sure how a Article 15 effects an officer but I have seen some resign their commissions after getting one because it makes it alot harder to put on rank once you have a 15.

It's definately a career killer. In the military - for a senior NCO or an Officer. For some young punk who gets out after 4 years, they can have 50 NJPs and it'll never show up on their civilian record. Totally NON-JUDICIAL.

Oh for sure, I got one in the Air Force and it does not show up on my record, it only shows up if the incident offurs off base and is handled by the local authorities. I have seen a few enlisted recover from getting a Article 15 but that was only because they had the full support of the chain of command, if you don't have that you might as well get out because you are fucked.

 

[pinqy]

I did make one error....Article 15 does specify "minor offenses" though it is not defined what is "minor." Keep in mind that a minor offense can still be handled through court martial as well.
For example:

928. Art. 128. Assault
How Current is This? (a) Any person subject to this chapter who attempts or offers with unlawful force or violence to do bodily harm to another person, whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated, is guilty of assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
(b) Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) commits an assault with a dangerous weapon or other means or force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm; or
(2) commits an assault and intentionally inflicts grievous bodily harm with or without a weapon;
is guilty of aggravated assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Bolding mine.

In short, any offense under UCMJ can result in a court martial, but Commanding Officers have the authority to direct non-judicial punishment instead for "minor offenses." Could LTC West's actions have resulted in court martial? Absolutely. For whatever reasons, most likely his otherwise exemplary service, it was decided to punish him non-judicially instead, sparing him a federal conviction on his record.

 

[slukasiewski]

Oh your right I was talking about as far as enlisted folks, I am not sure how a Article 15 effects an officer but I have seen some resign their commissions after getting one because it makes it alot harder to put on rank once you have a 15.

It's definately a career killer. In the military - for a senior NCO or an Officer. For some young punk who gets out after 4 years, they can have 50 NJPs and it'll never show up on their civilian record. Totally NON-JUDICIAL.

Oh for sure, I got one in the Air Force and it does not show up on my record, it only shows up if the incident offurs off base and is handled by the local authorities. I have seen a few enlisted recover from getting a Article 15 but that was only because they had the full support of the chain of command, if you don't have that you might as well get out because you are fucked.

We had an E-7 selectee receive four consecutive NJPs in four consecutive piss tests. Busted from E-6 to E-3. A former Sailor of the Year!!

Got out. Today's the guy's running his own construction company. A total success.

 

[digger]

No, it's not. Misdemeanor and felony are not terms used in military law...there are only offenses. Any offense under UCMJ can be resolved either through a court-martial or, if the commanding officer decides, non-judicial punishment. While more serious offenses will generally result in a court-martial, so can reporting 5 minutes late for duty (though that will almost never happen). Again, theoretically, a murder charge could result in an Article 15 punishment (though again, that won't happen). The fact that LTC West received only non-judicial punishment does not mean he could not have been court martialed or that it was considered a lesser offense. It only means that, for whatever reason, it was decided not to take it to court. LTC West could certainly have requested a court martial instead of the Article 15 if he thought he would win.

As for LTC West's actions: He is not and has never been trained as an interrogator, he had no authorization or authority to conduct an interrogation, and he used illegal methods, and he was aware of all this. He also would have had trained interrogators and counter-intelligence agents available to interrogate Hamoodi, so he cannot claim expediency.

I really don't get it when people say it was a minor crime. He tortured someone! Torture!

If that is not a major crime in the US military, than the entire US military is criminal. That's what people are saying when they say that West was only slapped on the wrist.

he wasn't tried and convicted of torture! Tortue! - you stupid idiot. He received NON-JUDICIAL PUNISHMENT - get it? - for assault.

Didn't tarnish his civilian record one bit.

Unlike that pervert Bill Clinton who committed actual crimes.

Now freaking get over it.

Well he tortured someone! Was charged with assault, but that doesn't mean it's not torture. Isn't that what it's called when you kidnap someone, beat him, and make him think you're going to kill him in order to make him say something, anything you want to hear, to make you stop? So what are you saying? That he got off light? That doesn't say much for the US army. You think maybe the people of Iraq would like us better if we hadn't spent a decade torturing them?

What the hell does Bill Clinton have anything to do with this, you partisan little ****. You'll say anything just to score a cheap point.

 

[slukasiewski]

I did make one error....Article 15 does specify "minor offenses" though it is not defined what is "minor." Keep in mind that a minor offense can still be handled through court martial as well.
For example:

928. Art. 128. Assault
How Current is This? (a) Any person subject to this chapter who attempts or offers with unlawful force or violence to do bodily harm to another person, whether or not the attempt or offer is consummated, is guilty of assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
(b) Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) commits an assault with a dangerous weapon or other means or force likely to produce death or grievous bodily harm; or
(2) commits an assault and intentionally inflicts grievous bodily harm with or without a weapon;
is guilty of aggravated assault and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

Bolding mine.

In short, any offense under UCMJ can result in a court martial, but Commanding Officers have the authority to direct non-judicial punishment instead for "minor offenses." Could LTC West's actions have resulted in court martial? Absolutely. For whatever reasons, most likely his otherwise exemplary service, it was decided to punish him non-judicially instead, sparing him a federal conviction on his record.

Yeah - no shit Sherlock. Any offense under the UCMJ can result in a court martial. We got that. And West never got court martialed - he was NJP'd - which equates to a misdemeanor. Yeah, we got that to. So this whole West bullshit conspiracy crap is just that. Crap. You can run along and catch your short bus now, stupid.

 

[High_Gravity]

It's definately a career killer. In the military - for a senior NCO or an Officer. For some young punk who gets out after 4 years, they can have 50 NJPs and it'll never show up on their civilian record. Totally NON-JUDICIAL.

Oh for sure, I got one in the Air Force and it does not show up on my record, it only shows up if the incident offurs off base and is handled by the local authorities. I have seen a few enlisted recover from getting a Article 15 but that was only because they had the full support of the chain of command, if you don't have that you might as well get out because you are fucked.

We had an E-7 selectee receive four consecutive NJPs in four consecutive piss tests. Busted from E-6 to E-3. A former Sailor of the Year!!

Got out. Today's the guy's running his own construction company. A total success.

Some people that struggle in the service can succeed in the civilian world, a friend of mine got kicked out of the AF after 2 DUI's and 4 years later he finished up his Masters Degree and just landed a job making around $50,000-60,000, and when he got out everyone thought he would fail, life is funny like that somtimes, and the Master Sergeant that got the ball rolling on discharging him lives in a trailer park in Oklahoma and collects unemployment.

 

[slukasiewski]

23 years in the Army as a Military Intelligence professional, active duty and reserves, with service in Desert Storm and Afghanistan, stateside callups at the Pentagon and elsewhere.

My dick is bigger than yours if you want to compare service records.

Well, in my 23 years in the Navy - we always said "The Army was reserved for dummies."

How true you make that point.

For a supposed 23 year veteran to NOT know the difference between an Article 15 and a Court Martial is truly astonishing.

You really are a dummy.

Crawl back into your cubicle now.

I don't care if you were at Harvard for 23 years, you're still one of the biggest morons on the board

Thanks!

 

[AmericanFirst]

Allen West is GREAT!

I love him.

Excellent retort. (You do know he violated the ucmj and was forced to retire dont you?)

The army didnt want him, so of course you think he is "GREAT".

Clinton lied to the American people and a grand jury, found guilty and KEPT his office. I suppose you love him? Idiot.

 

[Liability]

Please this slowly...then explain what an article 128 is. Jester, please focus on this for a second. What exactly is an article 128? Then get into article 134. You had the nerve to call me a poseur? Poseur, Allen West is a disgrace.

While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men.[11] The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer.[11] At first, West thought the reports were a joke...until a week later when several of his officers were ambushed when he was supposed to be traveling with them. At that point, Colonel West began taking the risk of a planned assassination attempt seriously. [11] West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted or witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi.[11] In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Mr. Hamoodi appeared to go for his weapon and needed to be subdued.[11] Hamoodi was beaten by four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body.[12] West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head.[11] Hamoodi then provided West with names and information, what Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain."[11] At least one suspect was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found.[11] West said "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."[11]

West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers."[citation needed] The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000.[11] LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."[13] After Colonel West was relieved of his command, an interpreter said that without his presence the region he previously oversaw became more dangerous and chaotic.[11]




(I am talking to military people for a minute here) there are rules and the ucmj is there for a reason. True?You violate it, you can get kicked out. Righty Mr. West? Civilians dont seem to get this. There are are reasons why you do missions you are responsible for. When you cross the line, you are in violation of the UCMJ. Righty Jester? This disgraced idiot was never responsible for that interrogation. That is why he was busted and in my opinion, they should not have given him a choice and they should have put him behind bars for 10 years.

HE IS A DISGRACE. I know a lot of civilians will say so what, but the military has rules and this "officer" broke them. There are ways to complete mission while following the damn rules. I am going with the army and not some arm chair guy who says "so what"..he committed assult and I agree with the Army. He should have and did have to retire.

God bless America.

Jester, prove me wrong. This will be the hardest thing you have ever done but, If you dont like the link, prove me wrong with a different one that says he did't commit assult. You know, article 128 and dont forget article 134.


Allen West (politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please this slowly

Yeah. I stopped reading right about there.

If autoZona dislikes Mr. West, Mr. West is probably a superior candidate.

If autoZona could manage including all the actually necessary words in a "thought," her/its posts might have more entertainment vale. But they'd still be pointless drivel.

 

[AmericanFirst]

West has more integrity and courage in his toenail clippings than Obama has in his wildest dreams.

So Obama violated the ucmj like this pos west did? Civilians, violating the ucmj as an army officer is sort of looked down upon.

No but obamaturd is a POS.

 

[digger]

Evidently if the army claims that you haven't tortured someone, than you haven't. Doesn't matter if you kidnapped him, beat him, and made him think you were going to kill him. As long as the army only fines you $5,000 and kicks you out, you never tortured anyone.

 

[slukasiewski]

Oh for sure, I got one in the Air Force and it does not show up on my record, it only shows up if the incident offurs off base and is handled by the local authorities. I have seen a few enlisted recover from getting a Article 15 but that was only because they had the full support of the chain of command, if you don't have that you might as well get out because you are fucked.

We had an E-7 selectee receive four consecutive NJPs in four consecutive piss tests. Busted from E-6 to E-3. A former Sailor of the Year!!

Got out. Today's the guy's running his own construction company. A total success.

Some people that struggle in the service can succeed in the civilian world, a friend of mine got kicked out of the AF after 2 DUI's and 4 years later he finished up his Masters Degree and just landed a job making around $50,000-60,000, and when he got out everyone thought he would fail, life is funny like that somtimes, and the Master Sergeant that got the ball rolling on discharging him lives in a trailer park in Oklahoma and collects unemployment.

Oh yeah - I know a few senior enlisteds myself who railroaded good kids out - and were the biggest perverts and welfare cases in the community themselves....

 

[AmericanFirst]

Please this slowly...then explain what an article 128 is. Jester, please focus on this for a second. What exactly is an article 128? Then get into article 134. You had the nerve to call me a poseur? Poseur, Allen West is a disgrace.

While serving in Taji, Iraq, West received information from an intelligence specialist about a reported plot to ambush him and his men.[11] The alleged plot reportedly involved Yahya Jhodri Hamoodi, a civilian Iraqi police officer.[11] At first, West thought the reports were a joke...until a week later when several of his officers were ambushed when he was supposed to be traveling with them. At that point, Colonel West began taking the risk of a planned assassination attempt seriously. [11] West, who was not responsible for conducting interrogations in Iraq and had never conducted or witnessed one, had his men detain Hamoodi.[11] In the process of detaining Mr. Hamoodi, soldiers testified that Mr. Hamoodi appeared to go for his weapon and needed to be subdued.[11] Hamoodi was beaten by four of his soldiers from the 220th Field Artillery Battalion on the head and body.[12] West then fired his pistol near Hamoodi's head.[11] Hamoodi then provided West with names and information, what Hamoodi later described as "meaningless information induced by fear and pain."[11] At least one suspect was arrested as a result, but no plans for attacks or weapons were found.[11] West said "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about Mr. Hamoodi."[11]

West was charged with violating articles 128 (assault) and 134 (general article) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. During a hearing held as part of an Article 32 investigation in November 2003, West stated, "I know the method I used was not right, but I wanted to take care of my soldiers."[citation needed] The charges were ultimately referred to an Article 15 proceeding rather than court-martial, at which West was fined $5,000.[11] LTC West accepted the judgment and retired with full benefits in the summer of 2004. Asked if he would have act differently if under similar circumstances again, West testified, "If it's about the lives of my soldiers at stake, I'd go through hell with a gasoline can."[13] After Colonel West was relieved of his command, an interpreter said that without his presence the region he previously oversaw became more dangerous and chaotic.[11]




(I am talking to military people for a minute here) there are rules and the ucmj is there for a reason. True?You violate it, you can get kicked out. Righty Mr. West? Civilians dont seem to get this. There are are reasons why you do missions you are responsible for. When you cross the line, you are in violation of the UCMJ. Righty Jester? This disgraced idiot was never responsible for that interrogation. That is why he was busted and in my opinion, they should not have given him a choice and they should have put him behind bars for 10 years.

HE IS A DISGRACE. I know a lot of civilians will say so what, but the military has rules and this "officer" broke them. There are ways to complete mission while following the damn rules. I am going with the army and not some arm chair guy who says "so what"..he committed assult and I agree with the Army. He should have and did have to retire.

God bless America.

Jester, prove me wrong. This will be the hardest thing you have ever done but, If you dont like the link, prove me wrong with a different one that says he did't commit assult. You know, article 128 and dont forget article 134.


Allen West (politician) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please this slowly

Yeah. I stopped reading right about there.

If autoZona dislikes Mr. West, Mr. West is probably a superior candidate.

If autoZona could manage including all the actually necessary words in a "thought," her/its posts might have more entertainment vale. But they'd still be pointless drivel.

If he/she/it knew how to write or speak properly I would maybe not laugh when I read the post. Typical obamaturd butt kisser.

 

[digger]

West has more integrity and courage in his toenail clippings than Obama has in his wildest dreams.

So Obama violated the ucmj like this pos west did? Civilians, violating the ucmj as an army officer is sort of looked down upon.

No but obamaturd is a POS.

All wisdom flows from that one basic fact. If you stay true to this principal, you will always be right. Obama is a POS. He is worse than everyone. Everything is his fault. In fact, if he wasn't president, West never would have tortured anybody.

 

[High_Gravity]

We had an E-7 selectee receive four consecutive NJPs in four consecutive piss tests. Busted from E-6 to E-3. A former Sailor of the Year!!

Got out. Today's the guy's running his own construction company. A total success.

Some people that struggle in the service can succeed in the civilian world, a friend of mine got kicked out of the AF after 2 DUI's and 4 years later he finished up his Masters Degree and just landed a job making around $50,000-60,000, and when he got out everyone thought he would fail, life is funny like that somtimes, and the Master Sergeant that got the ball rolling on discharging him lives in a trailer park in Oklahoma and collects unemployment.

Oh yeah - I know a few senior enlisteds myself who railroaded good kids out - and were the biggest perverts and welfare cases in the community themselves....

Sometimes people who stay in the Military for a long time struggle to adjust on the outside, shit my old superintendent at Offutt retired honorably, and than got caught trying to solicit an underage girl online who ended up being a Police detective.

Online Enticement Suspect Nabbed