Zone1 After having learned new information, I am not sure where the real Catholic Church is..

[kjw47]

not true.

Jesus said "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father"

also:

"I and the Father are one"

Yes one in purpose. The Father did all the powerful works through Jesus-Acts 2:22,, 1Cor 8:5-6) Jesus only taught what the Father taught him to teach, He lived to do his Fathers will( John 5:30)--That is how one could see the Father. The Father was in heaven as Jesus told all in The Lords prayer.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Yes one in purpose. The Father did all the powerful works through Jesus-Acts 2:22,, 1Cor 8:5-6) Jesus only taught what the Father taught him to teach, He lived to do his Fathers will( John 5:30)--That is how one could see the Father. The Father was in heaven as Jesus told all in The Lords prayer.

All power in Heaven and Earth has been handed over to Jesus

He is our Judge

Only God can judge, therefore Jesus is God for that reason alone.. (plus all the other reasons already given)

 

[notmyfault2020]

Jesus never said he was God. He was clear at John 17:3--He taught his Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

WRONG

but you'll just have to find out for yourself by reading Scripture. We Catholics have both Scripture and the Church Christ founded to interpret it infallibly

2022 years and counting

 

[kjw47]

All power in Heaven and Earth has been handed over to Jesus

He is our Judge

Only God can judge, therefore Jesus is God for that reason alone.. (plus all the other reasons already given)

Yes, power handed over to Jesus from one that is superior to him= his Father. God gave Jesus the right to judge.

 

[kjw47]

WRONG

but you'll just have to find out for yourself by reading Scripture. We Catholics have both Scripture and the Church Christ founded to interpret it infallibly

2022 years and counting

Here is what your own catholic encyclopedia states--- 1967, new Catholic Enc Vol XIV, page 299-- The formulation, one God in three persons was not established, certainly not assimilated into christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century)= (381 ce the council of constantinople)--( Among the apostolic Fathers there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective(----( of god being a trinity)

They created the trinity at that council it does not exist. By satans will it was done, thus all serving it are being mislead into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily, making them one who works iniquity. And will hear these words as judgement-Matt 7:22-23-- He did it like this-2Cor 11:12-15

 

[notmyfault2020]

Here is what your own catholic encyclopedia states--- 1967, new Catholic Enc Vol XIV, page 299-- The formulation, one God in three persons was not established, certainly not assimilated into christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century)= (381 ce the council of constantinople)--( Among the apostolic Fathers there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective(----( of god being a trinity)

They created the trinity at that council it does not exist. By satans will it was done, thus all serving it are being mislead into breaking Gods #1 commandment daily, making them one who works iniquity. And will hear these words as judgement-Matt 7:22-23-- He did it like this-2Cor 11:12-15

you need to make a distinction in your posts between what the Catechism said or allegedly said and what someone else (you?) are saying. I can't figure this out

I will say this: I don't like any Catechism written after 1962

That is when the True Church began to be split from the False

 

[kjw47]

you need to make a distinction in your posts between what the Catechism said or allegedly said and what someone else (you?) are saying. I can't figure this out

I will say this: I don't like any Catechism written after 1962

That is when the True Church began to be split from the False

Jesus was never with catholicism. Their bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Jesus was never with catholicism. Their bloodguilt has amassed to the heavens.

you mean like how a lot of protestant "churches" (there is only one Church and it isn't them) caved and began teaching that some abortions are legit?

and had their part in the slaughter of 63 million human beings since 1973

that kind of bloodguilt?

 

[kjw47]

you mean like how a lot of protestant "churches" (there is only one Church and it isn't them) caved and began teaching that some abortions are legit?

and had their part in the slaughter of 63 million human beings since 1973

that kind of bloodguilt?

Yes, they even killed catholic vs catholic in the rev war, civil war, ww1, and did it for a man named hitler in ww2.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Page 2 of the book by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre

Open Letter to Confused Catholics: (which is available for free on-line)

Lefebvre RE Catholics' Confusion (My comments or paraphrases are in [brackets]):

We naturally ask.. what brought on this state of [confusion]? For very effect there is a cause. Has faith been weakened by a disappearance of generosity of soul.. a taste for enjoyment, an attraction to the pleasures of life.. the manifold distractions which the modern world offers? These cannot be the real reasons because they have always been with us..

The rapid decline in religious practice [that happened in earnest after Vatican II] comes rather from the new spirit which has been introduced into the Church [Gee, I wonder where it came from? ] and which has cast suspicion over.. past teachings.. of the Church .. based on the unchangeable faith... Th[is] faith was based on certitudes. The certitudes have been overturned and confusion has resulted…

[Then he goes on to give the example of how the CC used to teach (officially still does teach) that there is no salvation outside the Original Church—which does not mean that those outside the Catholic Church can never be saved.. It basically means that those who reject dogmatic Truth cannot be saved--unless they repent of such)]

 

[notmyfault2020]

I wonder why people like Meriweather and Mashmont do not seem to consider leaving the novus ordo Church (and we can barely call it a Church anymore?)

for the Society of St Pius X, the TRUE Church... or if they have, they have not mentioned on the forum

 

[Meriweather]

I wonder why people like Meriweather and Mashmont do not seem to consider leaving the novus ordo Church (and we can barely call it a Church anymore?)

Are you suggesting that unless a church says Mass in a certain way it is not a church? Are you suggesting that unless a certain language is used, and the priest faces a specified direction during Mass, it is not a church? Perhaps if a prayer is said in a certain way, it is not a prayer?

This is a gentle question: Are you in fear? Do you fear if you do something the 'wrong' way, it puts you in the wrong, the place you have worked so hard to get out of?

I go to both Latin and English masses. I know the traditions/reasons of the Latin Mass, and I know the traditions/reasons of the English Mass. Both are ways to bring us closer to God than we were when we first entered. Both show us different areas of the Kingdom. I have my favorite areas, as probably most do.

The difference between us is that just because we don't have the exact same favorite areas, one of us believes someone is in error and the other believes there is no error, simply a difference in preferences.

The heart of the Mass/Church is identical; some of the accoutrements are different. Why does this terrify you?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Are you suggesting that unless a church says Mass in a certain way it is not a church?

I read this far

You know damn good and w ell I am not suggesting THAT. If you are saying that the only thing Vatican II did was make a few minor changes to the Liturgy.. then you are more misled than I ever dreamed.

Vatican II taught that all religions, not just "Christian" ones are "the same" in the sense that one can be saved in any of them!

THAT is heresy

Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through HIM

 

[Meriweather]

Vatican II taught that all religions, not just "Christian" ones are "the same" in the sense that one can be saved in any of them!

Horrors! The Catholic Church noted that even when the Catholic faith fails to reach everyone, the power of God is not limited by any failings of the Church to reach/persuade people. Catholics trust in the power, goodness, and mercy of God, and anyone the Church cannot reach for any reason is left in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

 

[Meriweather]

Vatican II taught that all religions, not just "Christian" ones are "the same" in the sense that one can be saved in any of them!

Such is the power of God.

 

[Meriweather]

THAT is heresy

Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through HIM

Extolling the power of God is heresy? News to me.

Is there only one way that Jesus draws people to him? Jesus' Way/ways are limited by the Catholic Church?

 

[notmyfault2020]

Extolling the power of God is heresy? News to me.

Is there only one way that Jesus draws people to him? Jesus' Way/ways are limited by the Catholic Church?

that last thing RE the CC sounds like a cheap shot

But there is this

Even Protestants say that JESUS is the way to Heaven.

No one said that God can't find people, or they find Him, in any way but the Church or even in any way but Christ.

But once someone finds Christ.. someone looking for God, that is.. if he rejects Him.. he is toast unless he repents..

 

[notmyfault2020]

Such is the power of God.

Vatican II was NOT a dogmatic Council (the only one in history that was not)

Catholics are forced.. yes FORCED to choose btwn Vatican II

and

the 1960 years of Church practice / Tradition that preceded it -- including all the DOGMATIC Councils that came b4 Vatican II (again, V2 was a non-dogmatic Council)

They have to choose btwn those 2 options.

There is nothing else to do but choose.

And the ancient form of Liturgy codified by St Pius V (he was a saint.. not all popes are)

is indeed codified and therefore UN-Changeable. The Mass of All Times as Bishop Lefebvre called it is canonized. Even Vatican II did not attempt to change that.

So we know which choice we have to make

 

[Meriweather]

choice we have to make

Or what?

 

[kjw47]

that last thing RE the CC sounds like a cheap shot

But there is this

Even Protestants say that JESUS is the way to Heaven.

No one said that God can't find people, or they find Him, in any way but the Church or even in any way but Christ.

But once someone finds Christ.. someone looking for God, that is.. if he rejects Him.. he is toast unless he repents..

Only 144,000 are promised heaven in the bible. The great crowd has this promise-Matt 5:5, Psalm 37:29-- Those teaching all they go to heaven are in darkness-RUN FROM THEM=2Cor 11:12-15