Zone1 After having learned new information, I am not sure where the real Catholic Church is..

[notmyfault2020]

Did we have a news media to broadcast any problem that may or may not have existed? Pedophilia didn't wait to make an appearance until after Pope Pius XII. It is a problem that most likely arrived with early mankind. We are still fighting it.

not true.

A lot of us had never heard of ONE case of pedophilia until, say.. 20 -30 years ago.

You will know them by their fruits.

The novus ordo "catholic" Church is NOT Catholic

not at all

It goes through the motions of being such, pretending it is.. probably only to keep Catholics coming through the doors.. donations.

 

[Meriweather]

looks like it to me...

Shrug. Looks like to kjw47 St. John spoke of a literal 144,000 people.

What it may look life quite often is not what is. More interesting, someone tells you it is what is, but you still insist it is because that is how you see it.

 

[notmyfault2020]

You said it. I was speaking of followers of our Lord, Jesus. Why the need to turn Our Lord into one of his own followers to illustrate His presence in Church? That is what makes no sense.

um... your post makes no sense

please edit so people can make sense of it

 

[notmyfault2020]

Shrug. Looks like to kjw47 St. John spoke of a literal 144,000 people.

What it may look life quite often is not what is. More interesting, someone tells you it is what is, but you still insist it is because that is how you see it.

you are not addressing important points I bring up

figures

that's the novus ordo spirit ..

 

[Meriweather]

A lot of us had never heard of ONE case of pedophilia until, say.. 20 -30 years ago.

Correct, when it was all over the news media. Would you have heard of it had it not been for the broadcast media? By the way, I was in the news media at that time. You know what else the news media knew but chose to keep mum? Instances of pedophilia in public schools was much worse than in the Catholic Church, handled the exact same way...by moving teachers around because that is what the psychiatric community recommend be done.

Even then, there were fewer instances of pedophilia in the Church than there were in any other group/organization. However, since it was also in the Catholic Church it made headlines and brought in advertising dollars. Exposing public schools or other organizations wouldn't have generated the ad dollars--in fact might have lessened them.

 

[Meriweather]

you are not addressing important points I bring up

You make no point, let alone an "important" one. Worse, you cannot seem to make sense of something quite easy to understand.

 

[hadit]

no, it is NOT thatsimple. When Christ's Church is a mess, peole leaving right and left.. being taught heresy..

it matters a great deal. We are called not to save only ourselves but others.. and the Church .. the TRUE Catholic Church knows how to do that better than anyone. So anyone who does not look for this True Church is on a false path. Jesus did not establish a Church for NO reason.. Mt 16:18

The Church is important because Christ who founded it is all-important.

Christ's Church extends far beyond any artificial denominational boundaries. When one seeks Christ, he/she does NOT seek a church, he/she seeks Christ, and He is found everywhere.

 

[hadit]

No, all salvation comes through Christ's Church

That truth cannot change and never will. If someone finds Jesus, it is through the Catholic Church he finds it.. whether he gives credit or not

Protestants would not have Christ if not for the Original Church founded by Him.

Jesus wants everyone saved, therefore He wants everyone in His TRUE Church.. not the "churches" that claim to have Him but do not, or do not have ALL of what He wants for us

That is simply incorrect, by Jesus' own words. "No man comes to the Father but by me". NOT through an organization, NOT through a living person, NOT through a priest, only through Christ Himself. The thief on the cross needed no church, no priest, no pope, no catechisms, no baptism, no classes, no mass, nothing. He was able to walk into paradise and, when asked who let him in, simply point at Jesus and say, "He told me I could come in".

 

[hadit]

So the latest on what I have learned in the last few days:

According to Novus Ordo Watch, which appears to be the most reliable source I have found so far, a pope cannot teach error in his official capacity as (human) head of the Church/Successor of St Peter. But Francis does. Therefore he is not pope.

Problem solved (although getting to Solved was a very interesting journey, most interesting I have taken in decades, or ever)

So

We have had NO pope since 1958

no other view makes sense

Yet the Catholic church keeps putting these non-popes in as Pope and giving them vast power and wealth. Therefore, the church itself is wrong and you're saying it's wrong. You're starting to sound a lot like the leaders of the Reformation who protested against the corruption of the CC. What's next for you, a list nailed to the door?

 

[notmyfault2020]

That is simply incorrect, by Jesus' own words. "No man comes to the Father but by me". NOT through an organization,

If Christ establishes an organization.. by God, we need to pay attention to it



The francis church is NOT Catholic and I am not a member

 

[notmyfault2020]

Yet the Catholic church keeps putting these non-popes in as Pope and giving them vast power and wealth. Therefore, the church itself is wrong and you're saying it's wrong. You're starting to sound a lot like the leaders of the Reformation who protested against the corruption of the CC. What's next for you, a list nailed to the door?

looks like you are referring to the novus ordo Church, ie the francis church

I am not a member of that Church (so called)

Address your comments to Meriweather or some other NO 'catholic'

 

[hadit]

If Christ establishes an organization.. by God, we need to pay attention to it



The francis church is NOT Catholic and I am not a member

Christ didn't establish an organization, He opened up relationship between God and man. He said nothing, for example, about creating a pope, or cardinals, or bishops. That was done by man well after the fact, and His church crosses man-made denominational barriers.

 

[kjw47]

Interesting interpretation, but not buying it...

Well since the little flock and great crowd are the only ones getting saved. Who did Jesus promise this to=Matt 5:5, and the psalmist-37:29?

 

[Meriweather]

Who did Jesus promise this to=Matt 5:5, and the psalmist-37:29?

Let me guess...you believe the meek will literally be given the planet Earth?

 

[notmyfault2020]

You make no point, let alone an "important" one. Worse, you cannot seem to make sense of something quite easy to understand.

not when it is worded poorly, that is for certain. I don't answer people unless I am certain I know what they are saying

but never mind.. guess it was not important enough to clarify

 

[notmyfault2020]

Christ didn't establish an organization,

so you are saying a Church is not an organization?

Jesus founded a CHURCH (Mt 16:18).

Again, is a Church NOT an organization? You say Yes, it is and then say No it is not when you say that Christ did not found an organization!!!!!!!!!

contradictions galore!

 

[Meriweather]

guess it was not important enough to clarify

Or perhaps to re-read? In any case, it is hard to understand your bitterness and resentment over Vatican II and the Church today. Has the Church stopped practicing any of the Sacraments in which Jesus patterned his life and ministry? No, it has not. Has the Church changed any of Jesus' teachings? No, it has not. Has the Church turned away from Transubstantiation? No, it has not. From forgiveness of sins? No. From Christ as redeemer? No. Has it stopped reading from both the Old and New Testaments? No. Has it stopped Bible Study, educational classes, Catholic ministries and charities? No, it has not. Turned away from practicing any of the Beatitudes? No.

Does the order, dress, language, traditions of Mass turn anyone away from Jesus? Further you claim you cannot feel Christ's Presence. Have you considered it is not the Sender's (Jesus) Presence that is faulty by the Receiver's (your) Receptors that are at fault? I have been in several Catholic churches very recently. Christ's Presence was indeed present at all. Where was your focus that you could not perceive?

 

[kjw47]

Let me guess...you believe the meek will literally be given the planet Earth?

Yes, the new earth= Gods kingdom rule in full control, no more satan influences. Transformed into an Eden(paradise)--Prov 2:21-22 assures the great crowd are going no where. Matt 24:22-shows they will be brought through the trib and Armageddon.

 

[hadit]

so you are saying a Church is not an organization?

Jesus founded a CHURCH (Mt 16:18).

Again, is a Church NOT an organization? You say Yes, it is and then say No it is not when you say that Christ did not found an organization!!!!!!!!!

contradictions galore!

I'm saying Jesus founded His Church, then man added a whole bunch more on top of it to deal with the inevitable human problems. Deacons were appointed, for example, to care for the physical needs of the believers, but beyond that, there was no pope, there were no priests, no cardinals, none of that. In fact, the Church really didn't have much structure at all for quite some time.

Jesus didn't lay out an organization plan, power structure, or business plan. He appointed His followers to spread the Gospel. Man created the organizational structure later on. Jesus' Church is spiritual, it's not a man-made money exchanging business, complete with funny hats, swinging baubles and mumbled rituals. That's why His Church extends far beyond artificial denominational boundaries. I will tell you this, when someone stands before the Throne and looks around, they will see:

Catholics
Baptists
Mennonites
Amish
Lutherans
Protestants
Anabaptists
Methodists

Etc. etc.

And guess what? They won't be able to tell who is what and they won't care. They will all say, "I'm here simply because He told me I could be here". There will be no allegiance to any denomination, no one will having standing to say that someone else shouldn't be there because they worshipped with believers behind a door with a different name on it. Jesus Church is all those who believe in Him and who follow Him.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Has the Church turned away from Transubstantiation?

[/QUOTE]

I say it has, according to my experiences and observations

Has it stopped reading from both the Old and New Testaments?

[/QUOTE]

Yes, it has changed the Scripture readings, the wording and also, some passages have been removed. I know this because I have a 1947 Missal and it is VERY different from the readings at the NO Churches.. References to Hell and how the pagans hate Christians..(prayers to God about this)

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Further you claim you cannot feel Christ's Presence. Have you considered it is not the Sender's (Jesus) Presence that is faulty by the Receiver's (your) Receptors that are at fault?

Oh, gee, no, that thoguht just never occurred to stupid little me..

Of course it has occurred to me. But you know, here's a little story. I went to one Church one day and felt the Presence.

Soon thereafter (only days later), after having committed ZERO mortal and no serious venial sins , I went to another NO Church and did not feel that same Presence.

Nowhere have I said that ALL Churches I have visited are lacking the Real Presence.

I don't know what is going on RE the Real Presence and why this is happening to yours truly. But I guarantee it is NOT because I have committed any heinous sins or that there is something wrong with me.. funny how people always want to condemn the person they are arguing with as opposed to.. I dunno.. bad clergy? etc... the old Attack the Messanger thing

There are nefarious things going on in the NO Church and you and all NO Mass attendees need to face that