Abortion should be banned in the United States

[HeyNorm]

However you need to define personal bodily autonomy and freedom from authoritarian control, Americans overwhelming oppose your extremist, big-intrusive-government agenda.

Wait, there are two types of civil law. One that concerns property, and the other that concerns Human Beings. Please state which covers the fetus.

If you can, that is.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

If you cannot honestly confront

I have confronted your bullshit spam head-on, you ******* bot. I have noted how every single element is a lie. You have no rebuttal. You just spam the same bullshit over and over and over.

You are an 8-bit era town NPC. Press “A” to talk, get the same text every time.

Just **** off already. Everyone has had plenty of opportunity to read the same thing you are going to spam the next 30, 60, 100 times. There’s nothing in your posts, and it’s going to be the same nothing for perpetuity.

 

[mamooth]

No, it demonstrably isn’t, you illiterate piece of ****.

So you chose the "move the goalposts" option, thus demonstrating that you're flailing about, vainly trying to define yourself as correct in order to justify your perverse, stupid and immoral control-freak life-philosophy.

Instead of more helpless rage-weeping, try discussing the issue. I know, that would be something new and scary for you, but give it a try. Tell everyone precisely what defines a human being, along with exactly why that definition is the only acceptible definition.

Not being commanded by a cult to lie for the glory of authoritarianism, I use the same definition that almost all of humanity has used over all of human history. Human, born and alive. For some reason, you think you know better than all of humanity, and so all of humanity must use your weirdass pro-life revisionist definition. And the only reason you give for that is "BECAUSE I SAY SO!"

I should mention that if you're going to justify enslaving half of the population, you'll have to do better than "YOU WILL OBEY BECAUSE I SAY SO!".

There is no possible way at any level of intelligence for you to misconstrue my explicit statements to the absolute contrary as being an endorsement of what is your stated position, that an egg cell is the same as its own human being.

When you get this upset about about me satirizing your illogical and immoral position, that lets me know that I scored a bullseye.

 

[mamooth]

I accept this challenge.

Let's start fresh and have a one on one debate on the subject in the appropriate section of this site.

Deal?

Why not do it here?

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

So you...

This entire sentence was just your delusion when it wasn't your projection. Skip.

... try discussing the issue.

Already did. You had no rebuttal and stated pure nonsense. Let's scan to see if you have any rebuttal yet.

... Nope. Not one word of rebuttal. You have nothing.

Tell everyone precisely what defines a human being

A living organism of the species Homo sapiens. Done.

Human, born and alive.

Wrong. Please stop being being a retarded bigot and excluding living members of our species over your arbitrary nonsense birth canal fetish.

I wonder if you're stupid enough to claim we change species mid-lifespan. I guess we might find out.

 

[Chuz Life]

Why not do it here?

Why not do it where challenges and debates like that are intended to take place?

 

[mamooth]

A living organism of the species Homo sapiens. Done.

So, not a zygote then, at least by the standard definition of "organism". If you'd like to redefine organism, feel free, but understand how that shows you're vainly trying to define yourself as correct.

In order for your choice to mean anything, you have to explain _why_ you made it. If it's a purely subjective choice on your part -- as it seems to be -- then it's no more valid than anyone else's subjective choice. PETA says cows are people. I give their subjective choice the same amount of consideration that I give yours.

You should also explain why you think that you know better than the sum total of humanity over all of human history. We knew what a human being was thousands of years before we knew what a zygote was. Pro-life defintions are weirdass historical revisionism

Wrong. Please stop being being a retarded bigot and excluding living members of our species over your arbitrary nonsense birth canal fetish.

If you just get hysterical enough, then your bad arguments become valid, so keep trying.

 

[CarsomyrPlusSix]

So, not a zygote then, at least by the standard definition of "organism"

Objectively false lunacy.

An organism in the zygote stage of life is alive and they are an organism.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

ChuzLife230122-#6,854 Do you know (or care) how ridiculous it is, to DENY that a human being is a "human being" - regardless of the stage of development that the human being is ^^

NFBW: I have never denied that a human being is a “human being”. Giving a one-cell
human being in twelve hours immediately following the moment of conception equal rights to it’s 30 trillion cell mom is quite an absurdity for those that demand we do that.

Image: whattoexpect.com

• For the first 12 hours after conception, the fertilized egg remains a single cell. After 30 hours or so, it divides from one cell into two. Some 15 hours later, the two cells divide to become four.

That individual in the photograph is what scientists call a living human organism. It is a valid and common description mor fitting than calling it a human being.

In response to your post Chuz Life I do care that highly emoted
[[ right to (not viable human being) lifers ]]
pop in to insinuate emotionally distressed lies about my stance on Roe v Wade being shit-canned in mostly white Christian states including Florida, Ohio and Texas.

You came to this thread admittedly ChuzLife to drop some emotional propagandistic pleas on behalf of not viable unborn human beings, not to engage in dialogue with pro-choice posters but to disparage and thus abuse them.

I am a pro-choice poster who believes with certainty that: …………… every human being’s life from the mysterious exact moment of conception to the mysterious exact moment of death is a continuum……….. conception and death are boundary markers that differentiates each of ‘we that became an viable human being from one another.

Conception, however has not been the decisive marker for humanity from an idealized imaginative time of bliss at the start of human history itself to the present modem day sophisticated complicated industrial commercial driven global mass of all humanity residing on one planet revolving around one star amidst countless stars in the heavens.

The marker on the continuum that matters most throughout human history is live birth at first breath outside of the theological domain and religious world views that focus heavily on conception but not more than upon live birth,

Live birth and death are markers found in every human society. The markers are universally established with great precision, in every society, large and small, and the way they are recorded have characteristics that make each one unique and distinguishable from others. The means of recording markers of live birth and death have been mostly organized and carried out through the Great World Religions and the Empires built around them. But alas Times they are a changing since 1776 in the year of a Lord.

For my thoughts presented openly and sincerely above #ChuzLife and ding you come here to abuse Americans who do not agree with you about the markers between conception and live birth.

There are circumstances when death precedes birth which is an abortion whether natural or legally induced. Fetal death means individual human beings experience conception and up to 28 weeks of life in the womb. Does society have a duty to intervene against the mother on behalf of a living human organism?

Some of us want women’s rights protected others want the fetus protected from the mother. I say capability to be viable outside the womb at 24 weeks based on premature birth survivability is a fair and reasonable marker due when society is justified to intervene.

Prior to 24 weeks if you oppose induced abortion do not be involved in one.

That is my answer. Ban it in your relationships. No one is forcing you to abort your baby.

END2301212204

 

[HeyNorm]

ChuzLife230122-#6,854 Do you know (or care) how ridiculous it is, to DENY that a human being is a "human being" - regardless of the stage of development that the human being is ^^

NFBW: I have never denied that a human being is a “human being”. Giving a one-cell
human being in twelve hours immediately following the moment of conception equal rights to it’s 30 trillion cell mom is quite an absurdity for those that demand we do that.

Image: whattoexpect.com

• For the first 12 hours after conception, the fertilized egg remains a single cell. After 30 hours or so, it divides from one cell into two. Some 15 hours later, the two cells divide to become four.

That individual in the photograph is what scientists call a living human organism. It is a valid and common description mor fitting than calling it a human being.

In response to your post Chuz Life I do care that highly emoted
[[ right to (not viable human being) lifers ]]
pop in to insinuate emotionally distressed lies about my stance on Roe v Wade being shit-canned in mostly white Christian states including Florida, Ohio and Texas.

You came to this thread admittedly ChuzLife to drop some emotional propagandistic pleas on behalf of not viable unborn human beings, not to engage in dialogue with pro-choice posters but to disparage and thus abuse them.

I am a pro-choice poster who believes with certainty that: …………… every human being’s life from the mysterious exact moment of conception to the mysterious exact moment of death is a continuum……….. conception and death are boundary markers that differentiates each of ‘we that became an viable human being from one another.

Conception, however has not been the decisive marker for humanity from an idealized imaginative time of bliss at the start of human history itself to the present modem day sophisticated complicated industrial commercial driven global mass of all humanity residing on one planet revolving around one star amidst countless stars in the heavens.

The marker on the continuum that matters most throughout human history is live birth at first breath outside of the theological domain and religious world views that focus heavily on conception but not more than upon live birth,

Live birth and death are markers found in every human society. The markers are universally established with great precision, in every society, large and small, and the way they are recorded have characteristics that make each one unique and distinguishable from others. The means of recording markers of live birth and death have been mostly organized and carried out through the Great World Religions and the Empires built around them. But alas Times they are a changing since 1776 in the year of a Lord.

For my thoughts presented openly and sincerely above #ChuzLife and ding you come here to abuse Americans who do not agree with you about the markers between conception and live birth.

There are circumstances when death precedes birth which is an abortion whether natural or legally induced. Fetal death means individual human beings experience conception and up to 28 weeks of life in the womb. Does society have a duty to intervene against the mother on behalf of a living human organism?

Some of us want women’s rights protected others want the fetus protected from the mother. I say capability to be viable outside the womb at 24 weeks based on premature birth survivability is a fair and reasonable marker due when society is justified to intervene.

Prior to 24 weeks if you oppose induced abortion do not be involved in one.

That is my answer. Ban it in your relationships. No one is forcing you to abort your baby.

END2301212204

But you don’t know when that very moment of viability exists, and are willing to chance the death of the child so that the female doesn’t have to be inconvenienced by the choice she made.

 

[schmidlap]

The authoritarians who insist that intrusive politicians and bureaucrats should abrogate and arrogate personal freedom oppose the overwhelming majority of Americans' support for personal freedom.

If a voter referendum was held, Americans say 2 (54%) to 1 (27%)​

that they would vote to establish legal abortion.​

[https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/nearly-7-10-support-state-level-ballot-measures-abortion]​

​

The extremists can rave inanely and lash out hysterically, but the love of freedom in America is irrefutable.​

 

[HeyNorm]

The authoritarians who insist that intrusive politicians and bureaucrats should abrogate and arrogate personal freedom oppose the overwhelming majority of Americans' support for personal freedom.

​

If a voter referendum was held, Americans say 2 (54%) to 1 (27%)​

that they would vote to establish legal abortion.​

[https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/nearly-7-10-support-state-level-ballot-measures-abortion]​

​

The extremists can rave inanely and lash out hysterically, but the love of freedom in America is irrefutable.​

How did same sex marriage, a civil right, do at the ballot box?

 

[schmidlap]

ChuzLife230122-#6,854 Do you know (or care) how ridiculous it is, to DENY that a human being is a "human being" - regardless of the stage of development that the human being is ^^

NFBW: I have never denied that a human being is a “human being”. Giving a one-cell
human being in twelve hours immediately following the moment of conception equal rights to it’s 30 trillion cell mom is quite an absurdity for those that demand we do that.

Image: whattoexpect.com

• For the first 12 hours after conception, the fertilized egg remains a single cell. After 30 hours or so, it divides from one cell into two. Some 15 hours later, the two cells divide to become four.

That individual in the photograph is what scientists call a living human organism. It is a valid and common description mor fitting than calling it a human being.

In response to your post Chuz Life I do care that highly emoted
[[ right to (not viable human being) lifers ]]
pop in to insinuate emotionally distressed lies about my stance on Roe v Wade being shit-canned in mostly white Christian states including Florida, Ohio and Texas.

You came to this thread admittedly ChuzLife to drop some emotional propagandistic pleas on behalf of not viable unborn human beings, not to engage in dialogue with pro-choice posters but to disparage and thus abuse them.

I am a pro-choice poster who believes with certainty that: …………… every human being’s life from the mysterious exact moment of conception to the mysterious exact moment of death is a continuum……….. conception and death are boundary markers that differentiates each of ‘we that became an viable human being from one another.

Conception, however has not been the decisive marker for humanity from an idealized imaginative time of bliss at the start of human history itself to the present modem day sophisticated complicated industrial commercial driven global mass of all humanity residing on one planet revolving around one star amidst countless stars in the heavens.

The marker on the continuum that matters most throughout human history is live birth at first breath outside of the theological domain and religious world views that focus heavily on conception but not more than upon live birth,

Live birth and death are markers found in every human society. The markers are universally established with great precision, in every society, large and small, and the way they are recorded have characteristics that make each one unique and distinguishable from others. The means of recording markers of live birth and death have been mostly organized and carried out through the Great World Religions and the Empires built around them. But alas Times they are a changing since 1776 in the year of a Lord.

For my thoughts presented openly and sincerely above #ChuzLife and ding you come here to abuse Americans who do not agree with you about the markers between conception and live birth.

There are circumstances when death precedes birth which is an abortion whether natural or legally induced. Fetal death means individual human beings experience conception and up to 28 weeks of life in the womb. Does society have a duty to intervene against the mother on behalf of a living human organism?

Some of us want women’s rights protected others want the fetus protected from the mother. I say capability to be viable outside the womb at 24 weeks based on premature birth survivability is a fair and reasonable marker due when society is justified to intervene.

Prior to 24 weeks if you oppose induced abortion do not be involved in one.

That is my answer. Ban it in your relationships. No one is forcing you to abort your baby.

END2301212204

Succinctly stated, the reality is that a microscopic, mindless amalgam of cells is no more a person than an acorn is an oak tree, and Americans' support personal freedom over bureaucratic dictate ordering them to believe otherwise.

(NOT TO SCALE)​

 

[Gary Seven]

So pro-lifer, you oppose the death penalty?

Only for fetuses who commit acts of cold blooded murder.

 

[schmidlap]

Only for fetuses who commit acts of cold blooded murder.

Statism is statism.

Surrendering to the State's killing actual People in cold blood is comparable to surrendering to the State a woman's right to exercise control over her own body before a viable, sentient person has developed.

Just as most advanced democratic nations uphold reproductive freedom, most have abandoned executing people.

Top 10 Countries that Conducted the Most Executions in 2021​

1. China — 1000+
2. Iran — 314+
3. Egypt — 83+
4. Saudi Arabia — 65
5. Syria — 24+
6. Somalia — 21+
7. Iraq — 17+
8. Yemen — 14+
9. United States — 11
10. South Sudan — 9+

 

[Gary Seven]

Statism is statism.

Surrendering to the State's killing actual People in cold blood is comparable to surrendering to the State a woman's right to exercise control over her own body before a viable, sentient person has developed.

Just as most advanced democratic nations uphold reproductive freedom, most have abandoned executing people.

Top 10 Countries that Conducted the Most Executions in 2021​

1. China — 1000+
2. Iran — 314+
3. Egypt — 83+
4. Saudi Arabia — 65
5. Syria — 24+
6. Somalia — 21+
7. Iraq — 17+
8. Yemen — 14+
9. United States — 11
10. South Sudan — 9+

This thread is about abortion, not capital punishment. And "a woman's right to her own body" doesnt necessarily mean she has a right to kill another without justifiable cause beyond "I simply don't like/don't want it". Obviously there should be some exception, but it should not be a simple as going to Mickey D's.for lunch...and many of these people would have it that way if they could. They already do. They want to **** and **** and **** but they have no respect for WHY we really ****. It's all about their own selfish hedonism and gratification. What happens when anybody can get an abortion in any situation and actually have somebody else pay for it? Human values go down the toilet, that's what.

 

[schmidlap]

This thread is about abortion, not capital punishment. And "a woman's right to her own body" doesnt necessarily mean she has a right to kill another without justifiable cause beyond "I simply don't like/don't want it". Obviously there should be some exception, but it should not be a simple as going to Mickey D's.for lunch...and many of these people would have it that way if they could. They already do. They want to **** and **** and **** but they have no respect for WHY we really ****. It's all about their own selfish hedonism and gratification. What happens when anybody can get an abortion in any situation and actually have somebody else pay for it? Human values go down the toilet, that's what.

The State's arrogating personal freedom is the issue in both cases.

Advanced, democratic nations refuse to surrender to the state, both right to kill its citizens and the power to control wombs.

El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Iran are examples of nations that follow the policy that is advocated in the title of this thread.

Advanced democratic nations will not emulate El Salvador, Nicaragua, or Iran.

Of the vast majority of women who decide, with the advice and counsel of trusted medical and spiritual advisers and loved ones, to terminate an early-stage pregnancy - well before a viable, sentient entity has developed - more that half choose self-administered medication.

The State invading private communications and mail to crush personal liberty is unacceptable in a free society.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

NFBW: the sperm-in-egg-has-equal-human rights logical fallacy of all post-viability spokespersons on behalf of the unborn not viable human

View attachment 750062

NFBW: For the first 12 hours after conception, the fertilized egg remains a single cell.

Iteration221008-#1 Iteration • I am pro-life, my view is that unless human rights mean something divergent to "human rights," the unborn should have them.

NFBW: Are you making an argument Iteration that the one celled human being in the above graphic must be given the same exact human right and personhood autonomy to continue it’s life equal to and not subordinate to the recently (within 12 hours) sexually actively thirty-trillion cell female with her thirty-trillion cell male partner ?????

END23011002

 

[Rye Catcher]

ChuzLife230122-#6,854 Do you know (or care) how ridiculous it is, to DENY that a human being is a "human being" - regardless of the stage of development that the human being is ^^

NFBW: I have never denied that a human being is a “human being”. Giving a one-cell
human being in twelve hours immediately following the moment of conception equal rights to it’s 30 trillion cell mom is quite an absurdity for those that demand we do that.

Image: whattoexpect.com

• For the first 12 hours after conception, the fertilized egg remains a single cell. After 30 hours or so, it divides from one cell into two. Some 15 hours later, the two cells divide to become four.

That individual in the photograph is what scientists call a living human organism. It is a valid and common description mor fitting than calling it a human being.

In response to your post Chuz Life I do care that highly emoted
[[ right to (not viable human being) lifers ]]
pop in to insinuate emotionally distressed lies about my stance on Roe v Wade being shit-canned in mostly white Christian states including Florida, Ohio and Texas.

You came to this thread admittedly ChuzLife to drop some emotional propagandistic pleas on behalf of not viable unborn human beings, not to engage in dialogue with pro-choice posters but to disparage and thus abuse them.

I am a pro-choice poster who believes with certainty that: …………… every human being’s life from the mysterious exact moment of conception to the mysterious exact moment of death is a continuum……….. conception and death are boundary markers that differentiates each of ‘we that became an viable human being from one another.

Conception, however has not been the decisive marker for humanity from an idealized imaginative time of bliss at the start of human history itself to the present modem day sophisticated complicated industrial commercial driven global mass of all humanity residing on one planet revolving around one star amidst countless stars in the heavens.

The marker on the continuum that matters most throughout human history is live birth at first breath outside of the theological domain and religious world views that focus heavily on conception but not more than upon live birth,

Live birth and death are markers found in every human society. The markers are universally established with great precision, in every society, large and small, and the way they are recorded have characteristics that make each one unique and distinguishable from others. The means of recording markers of live birth and death have been mostly organized and carried out through the Great World Religions and the Empires built around them. But alas Times they are a changing since 1776 in the year of a Lord.

For my thoughts presented openly and sincerely above #ChuzLife and ding you come here to abuse Americans who do not agree with you about the markers between conception and live birth.

There are circumstances when death precedes birth which is an abortion whether natural or legally induced. Fetal death means individual human beings experience conception and up to 28 weeks of life in the womb. Does society have a duty to intervene against the mother on behalf of a living human organism?

Some of us want women’s rights protected others want the fetus protected from the mother. I say capability to be viable outside the womb at 24 weeks based on premature birth survivability is a fair and reasonable marker due when society is justified to intervene.

Prior to 24 weeks if you oppose induced abortion do not be involved in one.

That is my answer. Ban it in your relationships. No one is forcing you to abort your baby.

END2301212204

You're an extremist kook.

 

[mamooth]

Objectively false lunacy.

An organism in the zygote stage of life is alive and they are an organism.

Ruh-roh. Defining yourself as correct not working out so well? Pity it's all you have.

Even if you succeed, you still haven't gotten anywhere, since you haven't explained _why_ using that definition is good.

For example, suppose someone defines what a human being is by the objective trait of skin color. Sure, they've successfully created an unambiguous definition, but that doesn't mean it's a definition that's good to use. You can't just make a definition. You have to explain why the definition is the best one to use, without going circular or assuming the conclusion.