A very serious thread about race relations

[Mac1958]

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

 

[Correll]

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

 

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

While I am no Trump supporter, the obvious flaw in your statement is that those who do support Trump against the establishment do so because they have been told for decades that their way is wrong. This from people who have so screwed this country up that it is becoming increasingly doubtful that it can be fixed regardless of who does it.

I'm fine with all that, whether I directly agree with it or not. My point is that his behaviors, this completely over-the-top, undisciplined, etc. etc. "style" of his, is not the only way to approach this. He has willingly played right into the hands of his opponents, whether he's speaking "The Truth" or not.
.
.

 

[OldLady]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

Are you reverting to the Royal "We," or are you talking for a particular group? If so, which one?

I was not confused by your post's attack on "the right".

Why are you confused when I responded?


My point stands.


YOur words are a rejection of the very concept of discussion, civil debate or even reasonable political opposition.


They are more fighting words, than anything else.

? U hi?
I think you're confusing my posts with someone else's, but I'd still appreciate an answer to my question. If you aren't too devastated by whoever's words.

 

[Mac1958]

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

Yes, agreed, but there should be a Step One for each side of this argument. That's how effective communication works. For example, Step One could be (a) to reject any notion that criticism of blacks is racist on its face, AND (b) an admission that old fashioned, ignorant, bigoted racism does indeed still exist and must be culturally eradicated.

Those are the biggest impediments I see in this, among others.
.

 

[OldLady]

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Oh, it was totally in a positive way. I wish I could think of where I heard it, I'd look the guy up for you. Anyway, it definitely wasn't about making people feel divided or fueling a sense of racism against any side.

 

[Mac1958]

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Oh, it was totally in a positive way. I wish I could think of where I heard it, I'd look the guy up for you. Anyway, it definitely wasn't about making people feel divided or fueling a sense of racism against any side.

It's an interesting thought that we'd come at this from a new perspective. That may be what it takes.
.

 

[Correll]

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

Are you reverting to the Royal "We," or are you talking for a particular group? If so, which one?

I was not confused by your post's attack on "the right".

Why are you confused when I responded?


My point stands.


YOur words are a rejection of the very concept of discussion, civil debate or even reasonable political opposition.


They are more fighting words, than anything else.

? U hi?
I think you're confusing my posts with someone else's, but I'd still appreciate an answer to my question. If you aren't too devastated by whoever's words.

Jillian attacked the right, with bullshit accusations of, wait for it, wait for it, bigotry and racism. (surprise, surprise)


I felt no problem speaking of the Right, on such an easy issue of bigotry and racism.

 

[Correll]

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

Yes, agreed, but there should be a Step One for each side of this argument. That's how effective communication works. For example, Step One could be (a) to reject any notion that criticism of blacks is racist on its face, AND (b) an admission that old fashioned, ignorant, bigoted racism does indeed still exist and must be culturally eradicated.

Those are the biggest impediments I see in this, among others.
.

True, I guess getting libs to be able to listen to a white person talking about white people, without knee jerking the Race Card would be step TWO.

 

[Mac1958]

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

Step one would debunking the idea that it is taboo to even talk about whites as a group, with a culture and interests of their own.

Otherwise, it just degenerates into the same old same old.

Yes, agreed, but there should be a Step One for each side of this argument. That's how effective communication works. For example, Step One could be (a) to reject any notion that criticism of blacks is racist on its face, AND (b) an admission that old fashioned, ignorant, bigoted racism does indeed still exist and must be culturally eradicated.

Those are the biggest impediments I see in this, among others.
.

True, I guess getting libs to be able to listen to a white person talking about white people, without knee jerking the Race Card would be step TWO.

Well, that's definitely their primary defense mechanism.
.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

Holy crap, that goes against all my impulses, but I'm open to anything at this point.

Let's not forget that it's Identity Politics, the division of people, that has so many (including myself) at odds with the Left.

Maybe the author might argue that it would depend on the way it's done. If it's done in a combative, divisive way, it simply can't work, because that's what got us here. If there's a way to do it in a civil, cooperate way, then maybe. Of course it takes two to tango...
.

OLDLADY supports systematic racism directed against Asians and Jews when it comes to educational and employment opportunities.
Her advice on ending racism should be given the same consideration as Charlie Sheen telling us how we can achieve a more sober society.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

 

[Moonglow]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Are you guys under the impression that everything was hunky-dory with race in this country before everyone started talking about it?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

I'm guessing that they haven't ever spent much time around black people, and so from their perspective, twenty years ago when no one was talking about racism and police brutality on a national stage, everything was just fine. It wasn't until the black people started complaining that "race relations" went bad.

If only those black folks would stop complaining about the systemic racism that they've been facing their entire lives, everything would be fine.

 

[monkrules]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I don't mean to make a trite response. But, respect has to be earned.

And it is earned by proving we deserve it. Showing we've worked hard to educate ourselves, maintaining and doing a good job, showing that we are honest and trustworthy, treating others with respect, and so on. There is no magic to it.

Except, that simply "demanding" respect, or acting tough, is stupid; it doesn't work. And it shouldn't. Again: respect has to be earned. Then, respect will be given, and it will be genuine.

 

[Moonglow]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

I'm guessing that they haven't ever spent much time around black people, and so from their perspective, twenty years ago when no one was talking about racism and police brutality on a national stage, everything was just fine. It wasn't until the black people started complaining that "race relations" went bad.

If only those black folks would stop complaining about the systemic racism that they've been facing their entire lives, everything would be fine.

In 50 years I can't remember a time when there wasn't a race problem in the US...Plus there is a social caste system that is implemented by income scale that segregates and discriminates within the same race...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

I'm guessing that they haven't ever spent much time around black people, and so from their perspective, twenty years ago when no one was talking about racism and police brutality on a national stage, everything was just fine. It wasn't until the black people started complaining that "race relations" went bad.

If only those black folks would stop complaining about the systemic racism that they've been facing their entire lives, everything would be fine.

In 50 years I can't remember a time when there wasn't a race problem in the US...Plus there is a social caste system that is implemented by income scale that segregates and discriminates within the same race...

There is, and will be a "race" problem in the US as long as "race" exists as a concept.

If and when it doesn't, people will just find a new divider to define their hatred.

 

[Moonglow]

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

I'm guessing that they haven't ever spent much time around black people, and so from their perspective, twenty years ago when no one was talking about racism and police brutality on a national stage, everything was just fine. It wasn't until the black people started complaining that "race relations" went bad.

If only those black folks would stop complaining about the systemic racism that they've been facing their entire lives, everything would be fine.

In 50 years I can't remember a time when there wasn't a race problem in the US...Plus there is a social caste system that is implemented by income scale that segregates and discriminates within the same race...

There is, and will be a "race" problem in the US as long as "race" exists as a concept.

If and when it doesn't, people will just find a new divider to define their hatred.

They've always managed to find something..

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Ignoring race and racism isn't going to magically make race relations better.

You guys really don't get it, do you?

They seem oblivious to complaints from people that have claims...

I'm guessing that they haven't ever spent much time around black people, and so from their perspective, twenty years ago when no one was talking about racism and police brutality on a national stage, everything was just fine. It wasn't until the black people started complaining that "race relations" went bad.

If only those black folks would stop complaining about the systemic racism that they've been facing their entire lives, everything would be fine.

In 50 years I can't remember a time when there wasn't a race problem in the US...Plus there is a social caste system that is implemented by income scale that segregates and discriminates within the same race...

There is, and will be a "race" problem in the US as long as "race" exists as a concept.

If and when it doesn't, people will just find a new divider to define their hatred.

They've always managed to find something..

Yep, and "they" always will.

It's part of the human condition.