A very serious thread about race relations

[Mac1958]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

 

[Eaglewings]

I think you have to divide what we are calling "hate" into two different forms. The first is the learned hate, the virulent hate of actual believers in the superiority of one race/ and the subsequent belief in the inferiority of other races. That i agree is a learned viewpoint.

There is, however, the primal human apprehension when it comes to "different" or "other" that we all posses. Be it a reaction to things outside our normal day to day existence or differences in race, sexuality, or gender. That level of "hate" really doesn't elevate to the first type, but to me it is more primal and genetic. Luckily its far more easy to overcome, as you don't have to like others, just tolerate them to overcome it.

I agree Marty, I had a class on this and so many things that we do without knowing it are in the subconscious part of the brain...
I once saw a show on Donahue in the early 90's I think..
And their were families of the skin heads ( I think they called themselves ) anyway, little children screaming hate to anyone not white, gays, ect while holding up bibles while their dumb ass parents cheered them on.

The parents Donahue interviewed were uneducated and dumb as a doorknob.

.

We should be thankful that our current crop of budding Hitlers are usually as bright as a 1 watt bulb. However as someone once, said there are always little budding Hitlers around, the key is to not give them a Weimar situation that allows them to bloom.

What I mean is that people who are against racism shouldn't create a situation where people who are overcoming their fear of "other" decide the "other" really is out to get them, and become more recipient to the messages of the actual hard core believing racists.

Right now when anti-racists label anyone who disagrees with them on anything as racists, they create a Weimar situation.

Yes, they are getting a lot of attention right now, and I do see things getting worse. BLM got out of hand with violence and I do feel that Obama didn't do enough to stop it..
I also feel the same way about Trump not doing or saying enough to nip it in the butt.. He didn't need to say both sides.. He should come out and say that he will not tolerate hate from anyone... or flame the fire on twitter..


And you are right Hate and anger stem from Fear..

.

.

 

[martybegan]

I think you have to divide what we are calling "hate" into two different forms. The first is the learned hate, the virulent hate of actual believers in the superiority of one race/ and the subsequent belief in the inferiority of other races. That i agree is a learned viewpoint.

There is, however, the primal human apprehension when it comes to "different" or "other" that we all posses. Be it a reaction to things outside our normal day to day existence or differences in race, sexuality, or gender. That level of "hate" really doesn't elevate to the first type, but to me it is more primal and genetic. Luckily its far more easy to overcome, as you don't have to like others, just tolerate them to overcome it.

I agree Marty, I had a class on this and so many things that we do without knowing it are in the subconscious part of the brain...
I once saw a show on Donahue in the early 90's I think..
And their were families of the skin heads ( I think they called themselves ) anyway, little children screaming hate to anyone not white, gays, ect while holding up bibles while their dumb ass parents cheered them on.

The parents Donahue interviewed were uneducated and dumb as a doorknob.

.

We should be thankful that our current crop of budding Hitlers are usually as bright as a 1 watt bulb. However as someone once, said there are always little budding Hitlers around, the key is to not give them a Weimar situation that allows them to bloom.

What I mean is that people who are against racism shouldn't create a situation where people who are overcoming their fear of "other" decide the "other" really is out to get them, and become more recipient to the messages of the actual hard core believing racists.

Right now when anti-racists label anyone who disagrees with them on anything as racists, they create a Weimar situation.

Yes, they are getting a lot of attention right now, and I do see things getting worse. BLM got out of hand with violence and I do feel that Obama didn't do enough to stop it..
I also feel the same way about Trump not doing or saying enough to nip it in the butt.. He didn't need to say both sides.. He should come out and say that he will not tolerate hate from anyone... or flame the fire on twitter..


And you are right Hate and anger stem from Fear..

.

.

BLM was self limiting before Trump got elected. The Universities were getting sick of their schtick due to lowering enrollments and Alumni donation (Look at Mizzou as an example). However in this current environment I don't think Trump could have done ANYTHING or said ANYTHING to get even minor approval from the left.

At least when Obama went after people trying to shut down speakers on Campus some on the Right acknowledged the fact he was on the right side of that issue.

 

[jillian]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

I understand that argument. and many agree with you.

and then I think about the Vichy French enabling Nazis.

and I think about crystal nacht and all that represented...... while decent germans stood in silence.

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing.... hence wanting to appoint only loyalists to the FBI and ICE and DHS. I am not saying that the orange one would kill millions of people. but if you think for a second that he wouldn't like to imprison journalists like his boy vlad, I think you're missing something. he calls our press "Lügenpresse" for the express purpose of convincing his adherants that they can only believe him. that is dangerous and it is counter to everything our first amendment guarantees.

The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally

and when people think that if they're quiet the loons will go away, what happens is the loons take control of everything that protects us.

I have never been one of those people who said "oh, it can't happen here". it can happen here or anywhere.... unless people stand up. and I've always known that because I know that in Germany, jews would never have believed that what happened could happen. they said "I'm german. they won't do anything to me".

and half the jewish population of the world, along with 5 million others, got wiped off the face of the earth.

when you see hate, you have to stand up to hate. the white trash are angry bitter failures and bullies. and bullies go away when people fight back against them.

 

[Mac1958]

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

I understand that argument. and many agree with you.

and then I think about the Vichy French enabling Nazis.

and I think about crystal nacht and all that represented...... while decent germans stood in silence.

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing.... hence wanting to appoint only loyalists to the FBI and ICE and DHS. I am not saying that the orange one would kill millions of people. but if you think for a second that he wouldn't like to imprison journalists like his boy vlad, I think you're missing something. he calls our press "Lügenpresse" for the express purpose of convincing his adherants that they can only believe him. that is dangerous and it is counter to everything our first amendment guarantees.

The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally

and when people think that if they're quiet the loons will go away, what happens is the loons take control of everything that protects us.

I have never been one of those people who said "oh, it can't happen here". it can happen here or anywhere.... unless people stand up. and I've always known that because I know that in Germany, jews would never have believed that what happened could happen. they said "I'm german. they won't do anything to me".

and half the jewish population of the world, along with 5 million others, got wiped off the face of the earth.

when you see hate, you have to stand up to hate. the white trash are angry bitter failures and bullies. and bullies go away when people fight back against them.

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

 

[jillian]

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

I understand that argument. and many agree with you.

and then I think about the Vichy French enabling Nazis.

and I think about crystal nacht and all that represented...... while decent germans stood in silence.

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing.... hence wanting to appoint only loyalists to the FBI and ICE and DHS. I am not saying that the orange one would kill millions of people. but if you think for a second that he wouldn't like to imprison journalists like his boy vlad, I think you're missing something. he calls our press "Lügenpresse" for the express purpose of convincing his adherants that they can only believe him. that is dangerous and it is counter to everything our first amendment guarantees.

The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally

and when people think that if they're quiet the loons will go away, what happens is the loons take control of everything that protects us.

I have never been one of those people who said "oh, it can't happen here". it can happen here or anywhere.... unless people stand up. and I've always known that because I know that in Germany, jews would never have believed that what happened could happen. they said "I'm german. they won't do anything to me".

and half the jewish population of the world, along with 5 million others, got wiped off the face of the earth.

when you see hate, you have to stand up to hate. the white trash are angry bitter failures and bullies. and bullies go away when people fight back against them.

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

I don't see him as hitler... I see him as enabling neo-nazis and white supremacists. he put one in charge of our justice department which is supposed to stand up to hate.

is that hitler? I don't know... but he's sure hitler light. that or a Russian operative... either way.

it's not about party... you wouldn't be hearing this if john Kasich were president. you'd hear other vocal disagreements... but not this.

 

[Mac1958]

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

I understand that argument. and many agree with you.

and then I think about the Vichy French enabling Nazis.

and I think about crystal nacht and all that represented...... while decent germans stood in silence.

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing.... hence wanting to appoint only loyalists to the FBI and ICE and DHS. I am not saying that the orange one would kill millions of people. but if you think for a second that he wouldn't like to imprison journalists like his boy vlad, I think you're missing something. he calls our press "Lügenpresse" for the express purpose of convincing his adherants that they can only believe him. that is dangerous and it is counter to everything our first amendment guarantees.

The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally

and when people think that if they're quiet the loons will go away, what happens is the loons take control of everything that protects us.

I have never been one of those people who said "oh, it can't happen here". it can happen here or anywhere.... unless people stand up. and I've always known that because I know that in Germany, jews would never have believed that what happened could happen. they said "I'm german. they won't do anything to me".

and half the jewish population of the world, along with 5 million others, got wiped off the face of the earth.

when you see hate, you have to stand up to hate. the white trash are angry bitter failures and bullies. and bullies go away when people fight back against them.

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

I don't see him as hitler... I see him as enabling neo-nazis and white supremacists. he put one in charge of our justice department which is supposed to stand up to hate.

is that hitler? I don't know... but he's sure hitler light. that or a Russian operative... either way.

it's not about party... you wouldn't be hearing this if john Kasich were president. you'd hear other vocal disagreements... but not this.

Well, you're definitely getting things your way, that's for sure.
.

 

[jillian]

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

I understand that argument. and many agree with you.

and then I think about the Vichy French enabling Nazis.

and I think about crystal nacht and all that represented...... while decent germans stood in silence.

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing.... hence wanting to appoint only loyalists to the FBI and ICE and DHS. I am not saying that the orange one would kill millions of people. but if you think for a second that he wouldn't like to imprison journalists like his boy vlad, I think you're missing something. he calls our press "Lügenpresse" for the express purpose of convincing his adherants that they can only believe him. that is dangerous and it is counter to everything our first amendment guarantees.

The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally

and when people think that if they're quiet the loons will go away, what happens is the loons take control of everything that protects us.

I have never been one of those people who said "oh, it can't happen here". it can happen here or anywhere.... unless people stand up. and I've always known that because I know that in Germany, jews would never have believed that what happened could happen. they said "I'm german. they won't do anything to me".

and half the jewish population of the world, along with 5 million others, got wiped off the face of the earth.

when you see hate, you have to stand up to hate. the white trash are angry bitter failures and bullies. and bullies go away when people fight back against them.

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

I don't see him as hitler... I see him as enabling neo-nazis and white supremacists. he put one in charge of our justice department which is supposed to stand up to hate.

is that hitler? I don't know... but he's sure hitler light. that or a Russian operative... either way.

it's not about party... you wouldn't be hearing this if john Kasich were president. you'd hear other vocal disagreements... but not this.

Well, you're definitely getting things your way, that's for sure.
.

and they pulled up their Nazi insignia and went home the other day because of it.

 

[Correll]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

 

[OldLady]

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

 

[OldLady]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

Are you reverting to the Royal "We," or are you talking for a particular group? If so, which one?

 

[jillian]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

my words do no such thing.

and who is "us"?

you speak for no one but you.

 

[Unkotare]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

Until each "group" stops trying to gain some advantage from their status or identity, we are stuck with our current racial paradigm. Gone is the melting pot, and it has been replaced with the layer cake model, with each layer fighting to be on top. What's worse is we keep coming up with more and more layers, and each division fights to claim it's place at the top of the pity pole.

The Melting Pot is not gone. Don't mistake the noisiest for the majority.

 

[Correll]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

Are you reverting to the Royal "We," or are you talking for a particular group? If so, which one?

I was not confused by your post's attack on "the right".

Why are you confused when I responded?


My point stands.


YOur words are a rejection of the very concept of discussion, civil debate or even reasonable political opposition.


They are more fighting words, than anything else.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

I'm not quite sure how anyone who made half his appointments from Goldman Sachs and the other half for their contacts with Russia is fighting 'the establishment".

and one doesn't need to be a racist piece of garbage to oppose the so-called "establishment".

see if you find a single trumptard who stands up to the kkk and neonazi scum. good luck with that.

what is important now for people like you and people like me who don't agree on an awful lot but who agree that neo-Nazis are vile and should certainly shouldn't be enabled, to stand up and be as loud as possible.

I don't worry about making the bullies mad. I worry that we won't.

and I keep remembering "all it takes for evil to prevail is for decent [people] to do nothing".

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

Mac, I heard a guy on the news a few nights ago who has just written a book. His claim is that we can defeat racism by being MORE into our "identities," into being tribal, really building feeling of community around us and feeling of belonging in our own cultures, which defeats the reason for racist recruitment--needing a feeling of belonging, of a specific identity. If we have a strong sense of identity, of who we are, we will be more secure and less likely to be hostile or uncomfortable with other groups. Just being white isn't enough. It's way too global and ephemeral.
Wish I could remember where I heard him. It was an interesting and practical idea, actually. Some of the groups that try to "rehabilitate" racists claim the same underlying lack of a positive identity that sucks them in. The racist org gives broken folk a place to feel accepted and gives them a "tribe." Not so different from the lure of gang culture, actually.

That's not the ONLY factor or the only solution, but it was harmless and people have actually been talking about it for years--somehow recouping that feeling of belonging in something secure and positive.

He sounds incredibly foolish just like you so when you try to claim the media has nothing to do with yourknowledge of events you would not be exposed to without it. You have no intuitive understanding of the world so simply repeat the babble of those offering obviously counterintuitive sophistry.

 

[Correll]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

my words do no such thing.

and who is "us"?

you speak for no one but you.

Like you are open to any discussion with "pond scum".


Bullshit.


YOu pre judge everything we do or say, and do nothing but vilely insult us and then wonder why we are fucked pissed off.


If some asshole treated you like that, for years, what would your feelings to them be? What would your response be?

 

[Darkwind]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

When I talk to a Trump supporter about his (pick an adjective, I'm out) behaviors, their argument is that it's time someone stood up to "the establishment".

The blazingly obvious flaw in that thinking is the assumption that the way he's doing it is the only way.

I don't agree with them, and I don't agree that what we're seeing is the only way to heal racial divisions. I think we're all better than that.
.

While I am no Trump supporter, the obvious flaw in your statement is that those who do support Trump against the establishment do so because they have been told for decades that their way is wrong. This from people who have so screwed this country up that it is becoming increasingly doubtful that it can be fixed regardless of who does it.

 

[RodISHI]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

it has nothing to do with the media.

saying... oooohhhhhh....don't talk about the white supremacists...... is enabling them.

good going rightwingnuts!

I'm not a right winger you silly girl.

I am simply older and wiser.

If you do not agree with Jillian and gang you are a "bigot", a "loon" or whatever label that is being pushed at the time.

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

I believe that is the intent. The moment Rod posted a disagreement to some of the bs being pushed by the locals in the teachers union the other day he was label as a white supremacist nazi. The followers and groupies that hung around with that person and their family of dums all jumped on board and started spouting incoherent crap about their personal life choices that had nothing to do with the original conversation and accusations spewed from them. I don't generally get to know the locals around here but I happened to know who one of them was that was accusing Rod. I gave her a harsh correction and told her that she misread what Rod had written and if she made the choice to stay in ignorance when he was posting information so people could look at it for themselves to determine what was truth and what was fiction it would be on her and her cohorts not anyone else. She agreed with me she had made an error and told the rest they should also consider the words I told her.

Anyone who is not with the leftwing communist programmers are being verbally/keyboard attacked. Some on the right were attempting to do the same thing during Obama's reign. I suspect most of those were corporate shills or had financial interest involved somewhere along the line and union shills (If it is well searched out one will find that many of the giant union organizations have become well organized in an attempt to defend the taxpayer supporting their agendas and keeping their retirement funds safe, BAMN by any means necessary). The divisions have grown do to the (brown shirts) policies that were stepped up during that time which grew into little beastly things due to Obama ignoring the law concerning illegal immigrants (an attempt to bolster the dum vote), the corruption allowed as people who could do something looked the other way, outrageous expenses on crap like the flu hoaxes/vaccine crap; plus they were bringing in a lot more foreigners if they had at least a half a million or more to invest and giving out workers visa's displacing more of the American working class. Some of those foreign investors also got federal grants once they were here. I looked into some of them and tried to find one that was supposed to be in Des Moines. That particular one was a bunch of scammers from Kenya and there were Kenyans were furious that Obama's administration was supporting those crooks (my computer was crashed after finding that and some other funky info on how Islamist were getting in through Mumbai and how they could survive here once they got here, like how to file for ssi, rebates, etc.). The whole bankster/corporate bailouts and union bailout bs played a large part in the mess too which goes right back to bailing out the large union pension funds.

BTW, don't let the twit insult you she is a time waster. She claimed to be a jew. Who knows maybe she is and maybe not but she is definitely pissing people off as she works at creating more division.

 

[RodISHI]

Is there anyone here, or does anyone here know of anyone, who wants to see race relations improve?

No, I don't mean "beat" the other "side". No, I don't mean punishing the other side for their opinions. No, I'm not talking about the political angles, particularly pointing the finger and blaming the other guy.

I mean, is anyone aware of anyone whose top priority is better, more open, more positive, more civil, more constructive, more fruitful human relationships between the races?

Dead serious question. Examples would be great. Links would be great.
.

I know some individuals, but as long as we have a media that magnifies differences instead of encouraging commonalities, race relations will only deteriorate.

When an authoritarian brand of identity politics replaced liberalism as the guiding principle of the left, the die was cast. Liberalism encourages a color-blind society while this new leftist authoritarianism is all about color.

it has nothing to do with the media.

saying... oooohhhhhh....don't talk about the white supremacists...... is enabling them.

good going rightwingnuts!

I'm not a right winger you silly girl.

I am simply older and wiser.

If you do not agree with Jillian and gang you are a "bigot", a "loon" or whatever label that is being pushed at the time.

I do not think many black people are looking for improved race relations. I think we are simply looking to be RESPECTED, which blacks have never been in this country. From respect comes improved relationships.

I can see that, that's close enough. The question will be how much it's going to take. Most likely a person thing, I suspect.

The problem is that there are so many working so hard to keep everyone angry, that's working against all of us.
.

I understand what you're saying. but being quiet in the face of bigotry isn't what's necessary.

and standing up to bigots isn't exacerbating the problem.

the right's inexplicable defense of the bigots is what is exacerbating the problem. if everyone stood up to the scum, they'd crawl back into their holes......which is where they lived until a political candidate/now president enabled them.

the difference is, in the old days, the orange one would have been marginalized like George Wallace was. apparently after eight years of a black president, the hate-filled pond scum feel enabled by this guy. and don't say no, there is a reason david duke a) reminded trump who made him president' and b) thanked him.

YOur words shut down any possibility of common ground between us.


And is greatly insulting to us.

AND, denies us ANY right to have our interests represented or addressed.

I believe that is the intent. The moment Rod posted a disagreement to some of the bs being pushed by the locals in the teachers union the other day he was label as a white supremacist nazi. The followers and groupies that hung around with that person and their family of dums all jumped on board and started spouting incoherent crap about their personal life choices that had nothing to do with the original conversation and accusations spewed from them. I don't generally get to know the locals around here but I happened to know who one of them was that was accusing Rod. I gave her a harsh correction and told her that she misread what Rod had written and if she made the choice to stay in ignorance when he was posting information so people could look at it for themselves to determine what was truth and what was fiction it would be on her and her cohorts not anyone else. She agreed with me she had made an error and told the rest they should also consider the words I told her.

Anyone who is not with the leftwing communist programmers are being verbally/keyboard attacked. Some on the right were attempting to do the same thing during Obama's reign. I suspect most of those were corporate shills or had financial interest involved somewhere along the line and union shills (If it is well searched out one will find that many of the giant union organizations have become well organized in an attempt to defend the taxpayer supporting their agendas and keeping their retirement funds safe, BAMN by any means necessary). The divisions have grown do to the (brown shirts) policies that were stepped up during that time which grew into little beastly things due to Obama ignoring the law concerning illegal immigrants (an attempt to bolster the dum vote), the corruption allowed as people who could do something looked the other way, outrageous expenses on crap like the flu hoaxes/vaccine crap; plus they were bringing in a lot more foreigners if they had at least a half a million or more to invest and giving out workers visa's displacing more of the American working class. Some of those foreign investors also got federal grants once they were here. I looked into some of them and tried to find one that was supposed to be in Des Moines. That particular one was a bunch of scammers from Kenya and there were Kenyans were furious that Obama's administration was supporting those crooks (my computer was crashed after finding that and some other funky info on how Islamist were getting in through Mumbai and how they could survive here once they got here, like how to file for ssi, rebates, etc.). The whole bankster/corporate bailouts and union bailout bs played a large part in the mess too which goes right back to bailing out the large union pension funds.

BTW, don't let the twit insult you she is a time waster. She claimed to be a jew. Who knows maybe she is and maybe not but she is definitely pissing people off as she works at creating more division.

"If you do not agree with Jillian and gang you are a "bigot", a "loon" or whatever label that is being pushed at the time."

Remember when she used to call folks BUSH-IDIOT-DOLT-STUPID-COULTERGEIST- RUSHBOT-brain dead-wingnut-fruit loop- nutcase?

Have you noticed that the weaker her side got, the more angry and obnoxious she got?

Yes. That happened with that local group here I described to. Their followers are no longer liking them as well after their little nastiestfest once the truth came out. They can attempt to hide the truth but eventually truth prevails.

 

[Mac1958]

I think it would be far smarter to completely ignore them.

And then have people who disagree, communicating, listening and slowly improving relations.

The idiots would be completely neutralized with no screaming, no attacking, no deaths.

Things are only getting worse with this approach.
.

I understand that argument. and many agree with you.

and then I think about the Vichy French enabling Nazis.

and I think about crystal nacht and all that represented...... while decent germans stood in silence.

people forget that hitler was elected chancellor . he did not sieze power. he did not overthrow an existing government. he just quietly took over the apparatus of government. Donald and his minions are trying to do the same thing.... hence wanting to appoint only loyalists to the FBI and ICE and DHS. I am not saying that the orange one would kill millions of people. but if you think for a second that he wouldn't like to imprison journalists like his boy vlad, I think you're missing something. he calls our press "Lügenpresse" for the express purpose of convincing his adherants that they can only believe him. that is dangerous and it is counter to everything our first amendment guarantees.

The ugly history of ‘Lügenpresse,’ a Nazi slur shouted at a Trump rally

and when people think that if they're quiet the loons will go away, what happens is the loons take control of everything that protects us.

I have never been one of those people who said "oh, it can't happen here". it can happen here or anywhere.... unless people stand up. and I've always known that because I know that in Germany, jews would never have believed that what happened could happen. they said "I'm german. they won't do anything to me".

and half the jewish population of the world, along with 5 million others, got wiped off the face of the earth.

when you see hate, you have to stand up to hate. the white trash are angry bitter failures and bullies. and bullies go away when people fight back against them.

I just don't see Trump as Hitler. I just don't see these mouth-breathers as the SS. I just don't see millions of lives at stake.

Are there similarities to be found, here and there? Sure. On a minor, crackpot level. But that's as far as it goes.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but think that much of this is nothing more than partisan political opportunism.
.

I don't see him as hitler... I see him as enabling neo-nazis and white supremacists. he put one in charge of our justice department which is supposed to stand up to hate.

is that hitler? I don't know... but he's sure hitler light. that or a Russian operative... either way.

it's not about party... you wouldn't be hearing this if john Kasich were president. you'd hear other vocal disagreements... but not this.

Well, you're definitely getting things your way, that's for sure.
.

and they pulled up their Nazi insignia and went home the other day because of it.

But their minds are not changed, and they're probably even worse.

And the publicity may draw more to them.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. I don't see any attempts at communicating and healing here, none.
.