A message to LGBT: Your alliance with the abortion lobby is no longer useful to you, dump it

[Blackrook]

I'm offering an olive branch, but not to you, mdk. You're a hard-core leftist, an enemy of God, and an enemy of the unborn child. Of course you don't want gays and Christians to bury the hatchet and take up pro-life as a common cause. But gays no longer need you, they now have marriages and families to protect, and you have now become their enemy, since you still hate what they have fought so hard to gain for themselves.

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

Tell me, how do you think your proposal will "benefit" mdk?

By reconciling him with his Catholic relatives. If his Catholic relatives already accept him, that's fine. But I think we can improve on acceptance, and achieve reconciliation.

Do you really not see how ridiculously arrogant it is to believe that you can speak for mdk's Catholic family?

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Wow, there sure a lot of hostile people here. Have I struck a nerve?

That hostility starts with you and others on the hateful social right who seek to disadvantage gay Americans through force of law for no other reason than who they are.

That hostility starts with you and others on the hateful social right who seek to compel women to give birth against their will through force of law, increasing the size and authority of government at the expense of individual liberty.

The American people are sick and tired of you and other social conservatives who, as a consequence of your fear, arrogance, bigotry, and hate, continue to pursue a hostile agenda against gay and transgender Americans.

You haven't paid attention to what I'm saying, you're just repeating a recorded message that's playing in your head.

What I'm offering is peace between Christians and LGBT people. Take one step towards us, and we will, like the father in Jesus' parable, rush to embrace you, put a ring on your finger, and kill the fatted lamb.

You don't speak for Christians, clown. You speak only for yourself.

There are millions and millions of Christians across the country already "at peace" with LGBT people. Every day there are more. No one cares whether you join them or not.

 

[Valerie]

nighty night, rook.*

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

Tell me, how do you think your proposal will "benefit" mdk?

By reconciling him with his Catholic relatives. If his Catholic relatives already accept him, that's fine. But I think we can improve on acceptance, and achieve reconciliation.

Do you really not see how ridiculously arrogant it is to believe that you can speak for mdk's Catholic family?

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Yes, you can speak for yourself. But only for yourself - and no one really cares what you think. No one is beating down your door for your acceptance, no matter how magnanimous you probably think your offer is.

You've got a real special sort of arrogance that's absolutely hilarious to watch.

 

[Slade3200]

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Excellent... Here you go. The Pro-Life Alliance of Gay's and Lesbians... Spread the word it's 180 time!!!
Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians

 

[Blackrook]

No, but I am not actively opposing it, like I actively oppose abortion. Abortion is a much bigger issue for me. And I'd rather a baby live and be adopted by a gay couple than to die in an abortion clinic. You can't even compare the two.

You want gays to become pro-life and change, but you're unwilling to do so yourself when it comes to same-sex adoption. lol.

And to wonderfully real, most gays really do not care what the Christian Right thinks of gay people and their families.

I'm offering an olive branch, but not to you, mdk. You're a hard-core leftist, an enemy of God, and an enemy of the unborn child. Of course you don't want gays and Christians to bury the hatchet and take up pro-life as a common cause. But gays no longer need you, they now have marriages and families to protect, and you have now become their enemy, since you still hate what they have fought so hard to gain for themselves.

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

BLACKROOK SAID:
"when the media starts reporting just how abortion really is, and people are appalled..."

No, people are appalled by the social right’s contempt for the Constitution, their disdain for the Constitution’s case law, and their desire for more government, more government interference in citizens’ personal lives, at the expense of individual liberty.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You want gays to become pro-life and change, but you're unwilling to do so yourself when it comes to same-sex adoption. lol.

And to wonderfully real, most gays really do not care what the Christian Right thinks of gay people and their families.

I'm offering an olive branch, but not to you, mdk. You're a hard-core leftist, an enemy of God, and an enemy of the unborn child. Of course you don't want gays and Christians to bury the hatchet and take up pro-life as a common cause. But gays no longer need you, they now have marriages and families to protect, and you have now become their enemy, since you still hate what they have fought so hard to gain for themselves.

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

No one is asking you to.

What is expected of you, however, is to respect the privacy rights of women the and equal protection rights of gay Americans.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Excellent... Here you go. The Pro-Life Alliance of Gay's and Lesbians... Spread the word it's 180 time!!!
Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians

OK, good, then the idea is already out there, but this group is probably small, because I've not heard of them.

But every good idea starts small, and then snowballs.

I understand that pro-abort leftists hate this idea, so I'm taking your hostility in stride. The people I'm talking to are the lurkers, who are the vast majority of every forum, who never post anything, but read carefully and pick up new ideas.

To them I'm saying, reject the division sought by those who want continued division. Gays are sinners, as are we all. Jesus dined with prostitutes and tax collectors, and the pharisees complained about it. Those who want to be more like Jesus, think about what I've said. If gays join us in fighting the pro-aborts, then really, there is no longer reason to oppose them.

Each church will need to make a decision whether to allow same-sex ceremonies in their religion, and God will have to guide us on that. I know the Catholic Church will never do that. But there is no reason we can't find common ground on other issues, and gays can certainly come to Mass, and bring their children, on the same terms that divorced and remarried Catholics come to Mass and bring their children. What's important is that the children come first, and gays raising their children Catholic is good for them, and good for the Catholic Church.

 

[mdk]

You want gays to become pro-life and change, but you're unwilling to do so yourself when it comes to same-sex adoption. lol.

And to wonderfully real, most gays really do not care what the Christian Right thinks of gay people and their families.

I'm offering an olive branch, but not to you, mdk. You're a hard-core leftist, an enemy of God, and an enemy of the unborn child. Of course you don't want gays and Christians to bury the hatchet and take up pro-life as a common cause. But gays no longer need you, they now have marriages and families to protect, and you have now become their enemy, since you still hate what they have fought so hard to gain for themselves.

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

 

[Blackrook]

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

Tell me, how do you think your proposal will "benefit" mdk?

By reconciling him with his Catholic relatives. If his Catholic relatives already accept him, that's fine. But I think we can improve on acceptance, and achieve reconciliation.

Do you really not see how ridiculously arrogant it is to believe that you can speak for mdk's Catholic family?

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Yes, you can speak for yourself. But only for yourself - and no one really cares what you think. No one is beating down your door for your acceptance, no matter how magnanimous you probably think your offer is.

You've got a real special sort of arrogance that's absolutely hilarious to watch.

I know that I am arrogant. Every important thing that ever happened was started by arrogant people. The first of the patriots, who opposed British misrule when everyone else was trying to make a living, were certainly arrogant. The first of the abolitionists, who opposed slavery when everyone else said "It's none of your business," well they must have been arrogant too.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Tell me, how do you think your proposal will "benefit" mdk?

By reconciling him with his Catholic relatives. If his Catholic relatives already accept him, that's fine. But I think we can improve on acceptance, and achieve reconciliation.

Do you really not see how ridiculously arrogant it is to believe that you can speak for mdk's Catholic family?

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Yes, you can speak for yourself. But only for yourself - and no one really cares what you think. No one is beating down your door for your acceptance, no matter how magnanimous you probably think your offer is.

You've got a real special sort of arrogance that's absolutely hilarious to watch.

I know that I am arrogant. Every important thing that ever happened was started by arrogant people. The first of the patriots, who opposed British misrule when everyone else was trying to make a living, were certainly arrogant. The first of the abolitionists, who opposed slavery when everyone else said "It's none of your business," well they must have been arrogant too.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about the "good" kind of arrogance, I'm talking about the crazy street preacher kind.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm offering an olive branch, but not to you, mdk. You're a hard-core leftist, an enemy of God, and an enemy of the unborn child. Of course you don't want gays and Christians to bury the hatchet and take up pro-life as a common cause. But gays no longer need you, they now have marriages and families to protect, and you have now become their enemy, since you still hate what they have fought so hard to gain for themselves.

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

 

[Blackrook]

By reconciling him with his Catholic relatives. If his Catholic relatives already accept him, that's fine. But I think we can improve on acceptance, and achieve reconciliation.

Do you really not see how ridiculously arrogant it is to believe that you can speak for mdk's Catholic family?

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Yes, you can speak for yourself. But only for yourself - and no one really cares what you think. No one is beating down your door for your acceptance, no matter how magnanimous you probably think your offer is.

You've got a real special sort of arrogance that's absolutely hilarious to watch.

I know that I am arrogant. Every important thing that ever happened was started by arrogant people. The first of the patriots, who opposed British misrule when everyone else was trying to make a living, were certainly arrogant. The first of the abolitionists, who opposed slavery when everyone else said "It's none of your business," well they must have been arrogant too.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about the "good" kind of arrogance, I'm talking about the crazy street preacher kind.

Martin Luther was a crazy street preacher and so was John Calvin. They started the Protestant Reformation, which forced the Catholic Church to reform itself.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you really not see how ridiculously arrogant it is to believe that you can speak for mdk's Catholic family?

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Yes, you can speak for yourself. But only for yourself - and no one really cares what you think. No one is beating down your door for your acceptance, no matter how magnanimous you probably think your offer is.

You've got a real special sort of arrogance that's absolutely hilarious to watch.

I know that I am arrogant. Every important thing that ever happened was started by arrogant people. The first of the patriots, who opposed British misrule when everyone else was trying to make a living, were certainly arrogant. The first of the abolitionists, who opposed slavery when everyone else said "It's none of your business," well they must have been arrogant too.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about the "good" kind of arrogance, I'm talking about the crazy street preacher kind.

Martin Luther was a crazy street preacher and so was John Calvin. They started the Protestant Reformation, which forced the Catholic Church to reform itself.

Is that what you imagine yourself as? The next Martin Luther or John Calvin?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

You're saying that it was "deceitful" for him to not agree with your asinine premise? How so?

 

[Blackrook]

Maybe I'm not the best messenger of peace, but I'm the only messenger right here, right now.

But I'm not offering peace to people who genuinely want to destroy the institution of marriage, the family unit, and the life of the unborn.

I'm offering peace to LGBT who don't want to be aligned in that direction, and want to join the social conservative movement in preserving these important things.

Now that you can adopt children and get married, and start families, our fight for marriage, family and life is your fight. Join us.

 

[Blackrook]

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Yes, you can speak for yourself. But only for yourself - and no one really cares what you think. No one is beating down your door for your acceptance, no matter how magnanimous you probably think your offer is.

You've got a real special sort of arrogance that's absolutely hilarious to watch.

I know that I am arrogant. Every important thing that ever happened was started by arrogant people. The first of the patriots, who opposed British misrule when everyone else was trying to make a living, were certainly arrogant. The first of the abolitionists, who opposed slavery when everyone else said "It's none of your business," well they must have been arrogant too.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about the "good" kind of arrogance, I'm talking about the crazy street preacher kind.

Martin Luther was a crazy street preacher and so was John Calvin. They started the Protestant Reformation, which forced the Catholic Church to reform itself.

Is that what you imagine yourself as? The next Martin Luther or John Calvin?

I imagine myself as me, an eternal being who will be held responsible for every moment of my life when I meet Jesus Christ the moment after I die. I want to say to him, I met the opposition, or part of it, and won them over to saving our little brothers and sisters in the womb.

And he will say, "Well, Blackrook, you were quite arrogant about it, but your heart was in the right place, so I name you a friend. Welcome to my Father's Kingdom."

 

[Slade3200]

I'm not saying I can speak for all Catholics, but I can speak for myself. If gays dropped their support for abortion, my views on them would do a 180. I believe most other pro-life Catholics would feel the same.

Excellent... Here you go. The Pro-Life Alliance of Gay's and Lesbians... Spread the word it's 180 time!!!
Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians

OK, good, then the idea is already out there, but this group is probably small, because I've not heard of them.

But every good idea starts small, and then snowballs.

I understand that pro-abort leftists hate this idea, so I'm taking your hostility in stride. The people I'm talking to are the lurkers, who are the vast majority of every forum, who never post anything, but read carefully and pick up new ideas.

To them I'm saying, reject the division sought by those who want continued division. Gays are sinners, as are we all. Jesus dined with prostitutes and tax collectors, and the pharisees complained about it. Those who want to be more like Jesus, think about what I've said. If gays join us in fighting the pro-aborts, then really, there is no longer reason to oppose them.

Each church will need to make a decision whether to allow same-sex ceremonies in their religion, and God will have to guide us on that. I know the Catholic Church will never do that. But there is no reason we can't find common ground on other issues, and gays can certainly come to Mass, and bring their children, on the same terms that divorced and remarried Catholics come to Mass and bring their children. What's important is that the children come first, and gays raising their children Catholic is good for them, and good for the Catholic Church.

Where is my hostility? I thought that, I've been communicating with you pretty civilly. You are labeling every person that is gay with a favorable stance on abortion which is generalizing, stereotyping and pretty unfair if you want to know the truth... No wonder you are getting hostile responses. I could do the same about lawyers, I guess, but I think we can do better than that.

Gay's aren't automatically pro-choice, Christians are more likely to be pro-life, although I do know some exceptions. There are plenty of gay christians out there. The church has taken a stance against the gay lifestyle which has pitted each group against each other. Your real opposition to the pro-life movement isn't the gays, but the secular that believe in a women's right to control her body. It's those that do not believe there is life in a fetus. Its an egg and a sperm which both get wasted on a regular basis in the natural order of life. It's the people who don't believe in the bible or the concept of heaven or hell, or the fact that our morals are defined in a book written by the hand of God... Your POV is always going to fall on deaf ears to those that don't subscribe to your ideology.

There have been wars for centuries over issue around this stuff. It's sad that more people can't be both passionate in their beliefs and also respectful of people that do not agree.

 

[mdk]

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

You would be correct if you ignore the states that enacted gay marriage via the ballot box or their respective state houses. Do you actually know anything about this topic?

You made a bunch of assumptions and now you're whining b/c they turned out to be nonsense. Please, do go about judging people, though. Iol