A message to LGBT: Your alliance with the abortion lobby is no longer useful to you, dump it

[Clementine]

It doesn't matter what position gays take concerning abortion. Many on the Christain Right are never going to accept gay people, their marriages, and/or, the fact they are adopting children.

No one ever talks about the Christian left who are just as rigid. Even Obama and Hillary are fairly recent 'converts' when it comes to accepting gay marriage. And they only did it for political purposes.

 

[Blackrook]

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

You're saying that it was "deceitful" for him to not agree with your asinine premise? How so?

Well, I am going to apologize for popping off at people. I realize now that my usual approach of responding in kind to people who are rude was the wrong approach. If I'm going to convince people I really want peace and friendship between Christians and LGBT people, I'm going to have to start acting like it.

So, to all I've insulted, you have my deepest apologies. I hope you can forgive me, and we can continue to discuss this at a higher level.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Maybe I'm not the best messenger of peace, but I'm the only messenger right here, right now.

But I'm not offering peace to people who genuinely want to destroy the institution of marriage, the family unit, and the life of the unborn.

I'm offering peace to LGBT who don't want to be aligned in that direction, and want to join the social conservative movement in preserving these important things.

Now that you can adopt children and get married, and start families, our fight for marriage, family and life is your fight. Join us.

This is what I mean by "arrogance".

You are not the "only messenger".

There are millions and millions of Christians who don't hate gay people. None of them had the arrogance to qualify their approval with demands. Every day, more and more Christians around the country get over their homophobia, and move on. I see it every day. You have nothing to offer that isn't being offered by millions, all without the preconditions and bargaining that you're attempting.

 

[Slade3200]

Now you're just making shit about me. I am a married gay man, was raised in a Catholic household, and wait for it...I am also pro-life. You take your sanctimonious chiding/olive branch and shove them up your ass. lol

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

Wasn't slavery abolished and the civil/women's rights movements also accomplished by the same means?

 

[Dhara]

There will never be a same-sex wedding in a Catholic Church ministered by a Catholic priest, but I can tell you that most Catholics don't care that much anymore about this issue. If gays joined them in fighting against abortion, gays would find that Catholics are far more powerful in this country than the pro-aborts, both in money and influence. I'm not saying Catholics could go along with everything gays are demanding, but the good will generated by gays being pro-life would go a long way.

Gays and Catholics? No way.

 

[Blackrook]

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

You would be correct if you ignore the states that enacted gay marriage via the ballot box or their respective state houses. Do you actually know anything about this topic?

You made a bunch of assumptions and now you're whining b/c they turned out to be nonsense. Please, do go about judging people, though. Iol

I apologize for making assumptions, and I apologize for insulting you, and I apologize for being arrogant.

I am really excited about this idea, so I don't want my flawed personality to continue to be an obstacle. If I can find someone more temperamentally suited to argue this case, I will step aside and let him or her do it.

 

[mdk]

It doesn't matter what position gays take concerning abortion. Many on the Christain Right are never going to accept gay people, their marriages, and/or, the fact they are adopting children.

No one ever talks about the Christian left who are just as rigid. Even Obama and Hillary are fairly recent 'converts' when it comes to accepting gay marriage. And they only did it for political purposes.

I actually believe Obama has always supported gay marriage, but didn't do so earlier b/c it would have hurt him politically. I still don't really believe Hillary supports gay marriage. She just wants the gay vote, but considering the GOP's stances on gays that won't be too difficult.

 

[Dhara]

I don't think you're any friend of LGBT people. Just an anti-choice fanatic.

 

[mdk]

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

You would be correct if you ignore the states that enacted gay marriage via the ballot box or their respective state houses. Do you actually know anything about this topic?

You made a bunch of assumptions and now you're whining b/c they turned out to be nonsense. Please, do go about judging people, though. Iol

I apologize for making assumptions, and I apologize for insulting you, and I apologize for being arrogant.

I am really excited about this idea, so I don't want my flawed personality to continue to be an obstacle. If I can find someone more temperamentally suited to argue this case, I will step aside and let him or her do it.

No worries. I don't take posts made on the Internet to heart. lol

Have a good night. Cheers!

 

[Blackrook]

OK, well then, why did you wait so long to say so? You maybe should have identified who you are going into this discussion, instead of keeping me in the dark, which is dirty pool I think.

And do tell me, why it is you are hostile to my proposal when I am offering a deal that will benefit you and other gay people? Is it your pride, or just mule-headed stubbornness? Either way, you're not thinking clearly, you are just reacting like a leg twitches when the doctor hammers it on the knee. Perhaps you want hatred between gays and Christians to continue, for yourr own reasons?

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

Wasn't slavery abolished and the civil/women's rights movements also accomplished by the same means?

Slavery was abolished through violence, stirring up hatreds that last to this day.

The court decisions that started desegregation also stirred up hatred, and the civil rights laws were imposed on the South by the North, so those hatreds still haven't died down either.

What I'm hoping for is a change that is not imposed, but consented to by a majority. We need to reach hearts and minds, and convince people that the termination of a pregnancy is the killing of an innocent child. I think people already know this, but they have to understand WHY it's always wrong, unless to save the life of the mother, and then there should always be an attempt to save the baby.

 

[Blackrook]

I don't think you're any friend of LGBT people. Just an anti-choice fanatic.

If you understood how wrong abortion is, you would feel the same way I do.

 

[Slade3200]

You incorrectly assigned a bunch of labels and positions to me, but you're the one whining about dirty pool. Too funny.

Pressing you on how more gays becoming pro-life would suddenly make the Christian Right embrace gays isn't hostility. I am just trying to make sense of your convoluted proposal.

You want gays to change their positions on abortion even though you won't change your change yours concerning same-sex adoption. Your olive branch is swiftly becoming a twig.
lol

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

Wasn't slavery abolished and the civil/women's rights movements also accomplished by the same means?

Slavery was abolished through violence, stirring up hatreds that last to this day.

The court decisions that started desegregation also stirred up hatred, and the civil rights laws were imposed on the South by the North, so those hatreds still haven't died down either.

What I'm hoping for is a change that is not imposed, but consented to by a majority. We need to reach hearts and minds, and convince people that the termination of a pregnancy is the killing of an innocent child. I think people already know this, but they have to understand WHY it's always wrong, unless to save the life of the mother, and then there should always be an attempt to save the baby.

Can you see any similarities between the three examples you just described and LGBT struggles... Keep in mind the evolution of our society into one that became more civilized through out the years... From Civil war, to civil protests. Do some research on the struggles and violence that the LGBT community has dealt with. Perhaps not as sever as a civil war, you may see some pattern in the historical progression of groups fighting for their civil liberties...

 

[Blackrook]

I can't change a position that is rooted in faith. But I'm offering a compromise, which is that I not openly oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption, in return for which gays stop supporting legalized abortion.

In the nature of compromise, everyone gets less than everything they want. What I'm seeing here is resistance to the notion that there CAN be compromises between Christians and LGBT people.

But I predict that such a compromise WILL happen, and soon. My guess is, it's already in the works. Things are moving fast, and people are rethinking old alliances and old ways of doing things. No one ever thought that Southern conservatives in the solidly Democratic South would abandon the Democrat party, but then overnight, it happened.

Now that the homosexual lobby has won its same-sex marriage battle, it no longer makes sense for Christians to oppose them on this issue. And it no longer makes sense for gays to continue to ally itself with the pro-abort anti-marriage anti-family left, because now it's in their interests to support unborn life, marriage, and family.

This has nothing to do with me. This WILL happen, because it makes sense that it will happen.

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

Wasn't slavery abolished and the civil/women's rights movements also accomplished by the same means?

Slavery was abolished through violence, stirring up hatreds that last to this day.

The court decisions that started desegregation also stirred up hatred, and the civil rights laws were imposed on the South by the North, so those hatreds still haven't died down either.

What I'm hoping for is a change that is not imposed, but consented to by a majority. We need to reach hearts and minds, and convince people that the termination of a pregnancy is the killing of an innocent child. I think people already know this, but they have to understand WHY it's always wrong, unless to save the life of the mother, and then there should always be an attempt to save the baby.

Can you see any similarities between the three examples you just described and LGBT struggles... Keep in mind the evolution of our society into one that became more civilized through out the years... From Civil war, to civil protests. Do some research on the struggles and violence that the LGBT community has dealt with. Perhaps not as sever as a civil war, you may see some pattern in the historical progression of groups fighting for their civil liberties...

I am all in favor of civilization becoming more civilized, but do you not see how abortion is a big step backwards towards barbarism? A civilized society does not kill any of it's innocent members, for any reason. The struggle of gays for acceptance and tolerance should help them empathize with pro-lifers struggling to restore human rights to the unborn.

 

[Blackrook]

The common thread here is a struggle for increased respect for human rights for all of society's members. What we have now is a society where the strong prey on the weak. It's barbaric.

 

[Slade3200]

You misunderstand, gay people don't care if you oppose their marriages and their adoptions. They can have both of those every state if they so please, even without your support.

I've done more to more bridge the gap between gays and Christians then you ever could. Want to know my secret? Don't act like a haughty ass and actually get to know people before calling them enemies of God.

All of gays' victories have all been achieved with lawsuits overruling the will of the people. Is that progress in your eyes? Because that kind of victory doesn't take. Look at Roe v. Wade, still a cause of bitter division in the United States 43 years later.

Also, you came off as hostile to my idea before you told me who you are. So basically, you were deceitful. So don't judge me, you have no foundation upon which to stand.

Wasn't slavery abolished and the civil/women's rights movements also accomplished by the same means?

Slavery was abolished through violence, stirring up hatreds that last to this day.

The court decisions that started desegregation also stirred up hatred, and the civil rights laws were imposed on the South by the North, so those hatreds still haven't died down either.

What I'm hoping for is a change that is not imposed, but consented to by a majority. We need to reach hearts and minds, and convince people that the termination of a pregnancy is the killing of an innocent child. I think people already know this, but they have to understand WHY it's always wrong, unless to save the life of the mother, and then there should always be an attempt to save the baby.

Can you see any similarities between the three examples you just described and LGBT struggles... Keep in mind the evolution of our society into one that became more civilized through out the years... From Civil war, to civil protests. Do some research on the struggles and violence that the LGBT community has dealt with. Perhaps not as sever as a civil war, you may see some pattern in the historical progression of groups fighting for their civil liberties...

I am all in favor of civilization becoming more civilized, but do you not see how abortion is a big step backwards towards barbarism? A civilized society does not kill any of it's innocent members, for any reason. The struggle of gays for acceptance and tolerance should help them empathize with pro-lifers struggling to restore human rights to the unborn.

I wasn't talking about abortion I was talking about discrimination for LBGT and their struggles.

The heart of the abortion debate lies in one sides view of trying to protect the rights of a fetus and the other sides effort to protect the rights of women and not identifying a fertilized egg or fetus as a fully formed life

 

[Slade3200]

The common thread here is a struggle for increased respect for human rights for all of society's members. What we have now is a society where the strong prey on the weak. It's barbaric.

May I ask... Given the recent Trump incident, i'm curious. Since you believe abortion is murder, do you think that the women who abort should be punished for murder? Doctors and others charge with accomplice to murder?

 

[Blackrook]

The common thread here is a struggle for increased respect for human rights for all of society's members. What we have now is a society where the strong prey on the weak. It's barbaric.

May I ask... Given the recent Trump incident, i'm curious. Since you believe abortion is murder, do you think that the women who abort should be punished for murder? Doctors and others charge with accomplice to murder?

It would be enough to punish the doctor, by suspending his medical license for one year on a first offense, suspending it permanently on a second offense, and giving him prison time for any offenses after that, up to a life sentence if he continues to break the law.

I know that's not the answer you were looking for, but this is not about revenge for me, it's about protecting human life. I understand that a woman who has an abortion does not have the same mens rea as a woman who kills her infant or child after it is born. Prior to birth, the maternal instinct has not yet kicked in all the way, otherwise no woman would ever have an abortion.

The way to stop abortion is to allow women to see their baby in utero through an ultra-sound. What I've been told is that very few women will have an abortion after seeing their baby in the womb. I know people who run a clinic to do just that, and every year I attend a fundraising dinner for that clinic. I even represented the clinic pro bono when it first was founded, and was threatened with a lawsuit by the abortion clinic a few blocks away.

 

[Dhara]

I don't think you're any friend of LGBT people. Just an anti-choice fanatic.

If you understood how wrong abortion is, you would feel the same way I do.

I'm not a big fan of abortion, but I don't think someone else's body is my business.

 

[Slade3200]

The common thread here is a struggle for increased respect for human rights for all of society's members. What we have now is a society where the strong prey on the weak. It's barbaric.

May I ask... Given the recent Trump incident, i'm curious. Since you believe abortion is murder, do you think that the women who abort should be punished for murder? Doctors and others charge with accomplice to murder?

It would be enough to punish the doctor, by suspending his medical license for one year on a first offense, suspending it permanently on a second offense, and giving him prison time for any offenses after that, up to a life sentence if he continues to break the law.

I know that's not the answer you were looking for, but this is not about revenge for me, it's about protecting human life. I understand that a woman who has an abortion does not have the same mens rea as a woman who kills her infant or child after it is born. Prior to birth, the maternal instinct has not yet kicked in all the way, otherwise no woman would ever have an abortion.

The way to stop abortion is to allow women to see their baby in utero through an ultra-sound. What I've been told is that very few women will have an abortion after seeing their baby in the womb. I know people who run a clinic to do just that, and every year I attend a fundraising dinner for that clinic. I even represented the clinic pro bono when it first was founded, and was threatened with a lawsuit by the abortion clinic a few blocks away.

I wasn't phishing for an answer or trying to "get ya", I'm genuinely curious... I haven't been able to understand the argument... if you truly believe that life begins at conception then how can you not support a murder charge for all involved? Anything less, like suspending the doctor and do nothing to the woman, contradicts your claim of abortion being murder or a fertilized egg/fetus a real life.

 

[Dhara]

I'm old enough to remember back alley and botched self abortions and abortion only being legal in a couple of states. Would you rather both the pregnant woman AND the fetus die? Women have always sought to have some control over the circumstances of child bearing. IF abortions are going to happen anyway, isn't it better if the procedure is safe, affordable and legal?